Dying from a drug overdose

Vic_08

Potential-Monke wrote: »

In my time as a Garda, I got to witness 2 people being brought back from heroin overdoses. Scary time. Ambulance crew come in all calm, knowing exactly what to do and what happens. The person is basically dead on the ground, everyone is cleared back from them and 1 paramedic injects the magic juice into them. They wake up like Chev Chelios in Crank after getting a dose of adrenaline. They don't know where they are or what's going on, and usually become quite violent for about 10 minutes. It's surreal to see someone basically dead wake up with vigour in their eyes.

I believe it costs about €1000 to bring someone back from an OD, including the cost of the drug and the ambulance crews time. Crazy thing is, one of the 2 that OD'd done it again the following day and didn't make it that time.

The drug (naloxone) isn't expensive, around €1 a dose for a generic, moe for branded and injector pens but still not an expensive drug, in many places police are issued with injector pens as hey are more likely to be first on the scene of an OD.

The addicts don't like it because it blocks the effects of the opioid and gives them instant withdrawal symptoms. It is a quick fix but a short term one as the effects only last a short time, if not monitored and more doses given the addict can OD again when the naloxone wears off.

The cost of addicts to society through the health service, police and criminal justice industry and side effects to individuals through crime and anti-social behaviour is enormous.

Criminalising intoxicating substances is a monumentally stupid policy and one that has completely failed to prevent widespread abuse worldwide. The only people it benefits are the enormously wealthy and powerful criminal networks who have ravaged entire countries on the production side as well as millions of lives of consumers.

Until western countries drop the delusion that banning things you don't like makes them go away there will never be a solution to our current illegal drug problem and the devastating effects it has on users and the community at large.

vargoo

Whirl_wolle wrote: »

Drug usage is absolutely fcuking rampant. I suspect someone I know is taking drugs and he's a different person to who he was before.

I was out for a walk and a neighbour stopped to give me a lift. Whatever way our chat turned, his lads were out for the night and I said something like I don't know why or how they can do it, the hangovers aren't worth it. His exact words to me were: you wouldn't mind if alcohol was all they are on.

A lot of students are taking drugs as well.

I had my eyes opened at my work Xmas do.

It was raining outside, it was snowing inside.

Oasis1974

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ik48KbKuOWM

Move to 1:58 this guy actually was in the same movie as the dead one smoking weed aswell.

GinAndBitter

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

I would suspect that this scene has played a small part in that misconception.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U4eb7GwMw34

That's a brilliant scene.

GinAndBitter

I'd tend to believe River knew what he was taking.

Foweva Awone

Foweva Awone wrote: »

Drugs dehumanise you and you lose all perspective of the value of your life.

No. They do not.

Overuse of them does however.

But so does overuse of pretty much anything from Computer Games to Gambling to alcohol to sex.

The majority of users of all these things do just fine and we are perfectly human and our perspective and life values are a-ok.

Giveaway wrote: »

And from historic lows antisocial behaviour and low level criminality are increasing

A statistic that even if true is not at all informative in isolation. Absolutely no useful conclusions can be drawn from such a statistic. Even were I not to be totally doubting the veracity of it.

Dravokivich wrote: »

Cannabis is directly associated with criminality.

Sure but that might be a bit too vague to be useful. You could replace the first word with just about anything and get the same level of meaning. Lets try it:

"Cars are directly associated with criminality".
"Children are directly associated with criminality".

It works for many things.

Potential-Monke

This is a fantastic video explaining why addicition is being handled wrong:

@ATNM, I completely understand that paramedics would prefer to save a life rather than transport a body. I do, that's their job, it's what they do. And I may not have the same level of compassion as most people. Be it from experience, both personal and professional, or maybe my brain is just wired differently, but I don't assign the same level of empathy to everyone. You can call me inhumane, but i genuinely believe that after a certain point, when people have proven they don't want help, we should stop helping them. I can't help how I feel, that's just me.

Then again, I'm quite different to most people, and I'm totally ok with that. I also don't have this perceived notion that everyone has empathy for kids. I don't. I dislike them greatly. I believe that children are no one else's responsibility except the parents/guardians. I get slack for it, but again, I don't care. I have stronger feelings for other matters. That's just me.

aloneforever99

Potential-Monke wrote: »

But at what point do we say 'enough is enough' when you could be spending that €1k on the same junkie every week? That same junkie who has no intentions of changing, even though all the help is out there?

As for the drug, it's called Naloxone and it has only gone up in price. From this article in America in December 2016 (where it's inevitably cheaper than here):

'Naloxone is most commonly administered by injection or spray. Kaléo, a Virginia company, has increased the price of its naloxone auto-injectors, sold as Evzio, from $690 for a kit of two to $4,500 in less than two years. Amphastar of California nearly tripled the price of syringes pre-filled with naloxone.'

This response is typical of Gardai I've encountered on the topic. I went on a date with a guard last year who, two pints in, suggested that a good solution to Dublin's heroin problem would be "line them up and put a bullet in their heads".

Now, I'm not saying that's your opinion, and your line of work probably does desensitise you, but how much time have you spent thinking about the path those people's lives took to get them there.

For the most part they don't grow up in the cosy middle class families gardai tend to come from.

Of course everyone has choices, and heroin is a bad choice... but I've never even seen heroin. While I was in college I experimented with cannabis, magic mushrooms, acid, estacy and Special K. I was friendly with dealers. I went to raves.

But even being involved in "the scene" no one ever offered me heroin or pushed it on me, or took it in front of me. The people it gets pushed on tend to be young and vulnerable.

It's easy to judge.

Potential-Monke

I completely agree, it's very easy to judge, and heroin is not as easy to get as some people say. Like yourself, pre-Gardaí, I dabbled in experimentation, but was never offered it either. But, with a small bit of looking, you can get it.

And I do take the point of not knowing the background of the vast majority of these junkies, but you have to admit that in some cases, they don't want the help, they prefer to be the junkie. There are so many support systems in place out there for addicts, that you can only do a certain amount before we, in my opinion, should cut the losses. Only humans try to save everyone, animals leave the weak behind and what are we only advanced animals. Take from that what you will, but I stopped caring what people thought about me a while back, and I'm happier for it.

Not everyone thinks all humans should be treated the same. I don't. I don't think burglars should be treated the same as law abiding citizens. I don't think rapists should have any rights, as they took them from someone else. I think all paedos should be shot dead. And while I am happy for junkies to get help, and pay for that help via my taxes, I also believe there should be a cut off. You can only help people a certain amount, and the rest it up to them. If they don't want it, then fine.

Similarly, I am behind the governments intention to remove people from the housing list if they make 2 denials. It's welfare, not a life we should be providing. I'm a single male, 35, no dependants (and don't ever want kids). I'm living at home with my 70+ year old parents, initially as a stop gap while I transitioned from a Garda with a mortgage (unaffordable) to a civilian with negative equity after selling the house. Surprisingly, I didn't expect to be left in the house if I couldn't afford it, unlike some people, and their defenders, who seem to think they should be (ie: farmer all over the media recently, handled wrong but dead right to kick him out). I'm entitled to no help, none whatsoever, but I'm still paying, via taxes, for everyone else on the entitlement culture to get what they want. I'll never get assistance unless I impregnate someone, which I have no intention of doing. And I can't afford to rent. So I'm stuck at home for the foreseeable, with no hope of getting a 4eva home or any assistance whatsoever. I've checked.

I wasn't like this, 9 years as a Garda, and the now very well documented 'me, me, me' culture has made me this way. I love helping, and it's why I became a Garda, but now society does so much taking and no giving, it has completely changed my views on this country. I now have what some would consider a cold heart, and that's grand, no problem. I have the things I hold close, and I have views on many things that most people would consider heartless, but being a single male with no kids and experience of the worst parts of society, it's left me like this.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Tell me how wrote: »

There isn't a single piece of actual evidence in this post.

FFS...You can’t say that without backing your statement up with proven facts!!!

Potential-Monke

Potential-Monke wrote: »

I completely agree.

And I completely agree with your post, especially regarding those who will make absolutely zero effort to improve or help themselves.

dr.fuzzenstein

Ted Johnson wrote: »

You are making scum rich with your addiction though.

On the addiction side. I stopped smoking canabis. One day to the next. No problem, because it's not an addiction.
Quitting smoking was a bit more difficult. I did relapse briefly, but am now smoke free for good.
And regarde s'il vous plait:

Succubus_ wrote: »

Then it should be legalised.

Boom! He sank your battleship. /argument as far as I'm concerned.
Also, as a side note, I had a hippy neighbour who planted that stuff and would generously share for favours and helping himn out.
So there! :P

chicorytip

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote:

The first part of your post is no good though. Cannabis has never caused a drug overdose in someone ever. Hard drugs like heroin and meth are the ones that cause overdoses, that ruin lives, families and drive up criminality.

Cannabis is a so called "gateway" drug. Most Heroin addicts would have been pot smokers before progressing onto harder drugs. Prolonged Cannabis use has been proven to be a contributory factor in the development of serious physical and mental illnesses such as lung and oesaphagal cancer and psychosis.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

And I completely agree with your post, especially regarding those who will make absolutely zero effort to improve or help themselves.

No child says they want to become an addict. Nobody wants to end up on the street begging for loose change.

We badly need to stop dehumanising such people as 'junkies', or any other inhuman nouns we can think of.

They're just regular people, with the same human weaknesses as we all have, except they had the misfortune to be born into the wrong circumstances. Anyone who thinks they'd be a better person in the same situation is usually deluding themselves.

speckled_park

Flea from the rchp was playing on stage tht night when river overdosed and ran off stage mid set when he heard the news to find him dead on the street.

dartboardio

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

No child says they want to become an addict. Nobody wants to end up on the street begging for loose change.

We badly need to stop dehumanising such people as 'junkies', or any other inhuman nouns we can think of.

They're just regular people, with the same human weaknesses as we all have, except they had the misfortune to be born into the wrong circumstances. Anyone who thinks they'd be a better person in the same situation is usually deluding themselves.

I doubt you'd be saying that if they turned around and robbed you in the morning.

Anyway i do wonder what makes a young person turn to heroin. Like a poster said above you could be very much involved in the 'drug scene' yet never come across or even see heroin.

A girl i know (an acquaintance /casual friend) would've gone out just as much as we did.. Taken es or coke or whatever on nights out just like we did, but Ive recently heard from her mother that she's injecting and smoking heroin. (all within a 6 month timeframe) normal young beautiful girl from a respected family out on the weekends in the nightclub now injecting heroin and begging on the street

How does someone make that decision or change so fast

Ted Johnson

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

On the addiction side. I stopped smoking canabis. One day to the next. No problem, because it's not an addiction.
Quitting smoking was a bit more difficult. I did relapse briefly, but am now smoke free for good.
And regarde s'il vous plait:



Boom! He sank your battleship. /argument as far as I'm concerned.
Also, as a side note, I had a hippy neighbour who planted that stuff and would generously share for favours and helping himn out.
So there! :P

I'm glad you quit but I know plenty of idiots who are addicted. It's not a harmless drug.

tabby aspreme

From talking to a few drug councillors I know, a lot of people start taking heroin to come down from use of cocaine, and then become addicted to it very quickly

MyStubbleItches

Foweva Awone wrote: »

Two of my friends almost died from heroin overdoses last year.

One of them, his brain was deprived of oxygen for far too long and he wasn't expected to make it, he survived with serious brain damage and is still in hospital. He's making some sort of a recovery but he's absolutely not the same person, too

His girlfriend OD'd a couple of weeks later and did serious damage to her internal organs, was on dialysis for a long time.

It's not a nice way to die but it's not a pleasant thing to survive either.

Fùcking brilliant. So it’s not just travellers we have to support, it’s this crap as well.

gctest50

MyStubbleItches wrote: »

Fùcking brilliant. So it’s not just travellers we have to support, it’s this crap as well.

You must have absolutely loved this post then :

Potential-Monke wrote: »

In my time as a Garda, I got to witness 2 people being brought back from heroin overdoses. .....................................................

I believe it costs about €1000 to bring someone back from an OD, including the cost of the drug and the ambulance crews time. Crazy thing is, one of the 2 that OD'd done it again the following day and didn't make it that time.

Potential-Monke wrote: »

But at what point do we say 'enough is enough' when you could be spending that €1k on the same junkie every week? That same junkie who has no intentions of changing, even though all the help is out there?

As for the drug, it's called Naloxone and it has only gone up in price. From this article in America in December 2016 (where it's inevitably cheaper than here):

'Naloxone is most commonly administered by injection or spray. Kaléo, a Virginia company, has increased the price of its naloxone auto-injectors, sold as Evzio, from $690 for a kit of two to $4,500 in less than two years. Amphastar of California nearly tripled the price of syringes pre-filled with naloxone.'

Ted Johnson

dartboardio wrote: »

I doubt you'd be saying that if they turned around and robbed you in the morning.

Anyway i do wonder what makes a young person turn to heroin. Like a poster said above you could be very much involved in the 'drug scene' yet never come across or even see heroin.

A girl i know (an acquaintance /casual friend) would've gone out just as much as we did.. Taken es or coke or whatever on nights out just like we did, but Ive recently heard from her mother that she's injecting and smoking heroin. (all within a 6 month timeframe) normal young beautiful girl from a respected family out on the weekends in the nightclub now injecting heroin and begging on the street

How does someone make that decision or change so fast

Your friend is a ****ing idiot. She's going to end up sucking dick to pay for her habit.

MyStubbleItches

gctest50 wrote: »

You must have absolutely loved this post then :

No, that’s acceptable. I loved that that posters friend is still in hospital following their overdose.

Stacksofwacks

I had a bad experience with coke one time, was scary, could feel my heart beating out of my chest and was getting panic attacks, luckily I had a guy nearby to talk me through it, I actually blacked out at one stage. Wouldnt put anything up my nose or into my body like that again

Hoboo

chicorytip wrote: »

Cannabis is a so called "gateway" drug. Most Heroin addicts would have been pot smokers before progressing onto harder drugs. Prolonged Cannabis use has been proven to be a contributory factor in the development of serious physical and mental illnesses such as lung and oesaphagal cancer and psychosis.

Now that's psychotic. Where in the hell did you pull that nonsense from, it's like a US war on drugs pamphlet from the 80's.

Stovepipe

Potential-Monke wrote: »

In my time as a Garda, I got to witness 2 people being brought back from heroin overdoses. Scary time. Ambulance crew come in all calm, knowing exactly what to do and what happens. The person is basically dead on the ground, everyone is cleared back from them and 1 paramedic injects the magic juice into them. They wake up like Chev Chelios in Crank after getting a dose of adrenaline. They don't know where they are or what's going on, and usually become quite violent for about 10 minutes. It's surreal to see someone basically dead wake up with vigour in their eyes.

I believe it costs about €1000 to bring someone back from an OD, including the cost of the drug and the ambulance crews time. Crazy thing is, one of the 2 that OD'd done it again the following day and didn't make it that time.

A good friend is a fireman/paramedic and has administered the Narkan and had junkies sit back up from the blue lips stage. In both cases, they went straight back on the gear and were dead within two weeks.

McCrack

Stovepipe wrote: »

A good friend is a fireman/paramedic and has administered the Narkan and had junkies sit back up from the blue lips stage. In both cases, they went straight back on the gear and were dead within two weeks.

Not surprising

dartboardio

dartboardio wrote: »

I doubt you'd be saying that if they turned around and robbed you in the morning.

do you think I live in some kind of bubble? Of course I've had things stolen from me, I've even been (randomly) punched by a seemingly-homeless person who was off their head on something (probably not heroin, mind you).

It doesn't change my opinion of the situation. Addiction seems to be a mixture of a genetic lottery and/or circumstances of childhood.

That's why it really riles me when people act as though we're all upstanding members of the community by dint of pure choice and hard work. No, we won the birth lottery. We should be grateful for our situations, and not using that to belittle and duhamnise others who were less fortunate.

dartboardio

Ted Johnson wrote: »

Your friend is a ****ing idiot. She's going to end up sucking dick to pay for her habit.

Probably!

topper75

Giveaway wrote: »

Bodycount in 10s of thousands in the Phillippinnes amd guess what, its still a hole

Zombie dealers?

corner of hells

Stovepipe wrote: »

A good friend is a fireman/paramedic and has administered the Narkan and had junkies sit back up from the blue lips stage. In both cases, they went straight back on the gear and were dead within two weeks.

It's naloxone in Ireland , the bluish tinge is cyanosis.
Your friend is right , they go from respiratory overdose , extremities blue etc right back to being responsive in minutes.

Amirani

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

A "junkie" aka a human being.

At what point after some middle-class alcoholic presents at ED with seizures, or acute liver failure, should doctors just say 'Nah, leave him be Rashid, let him die in the carpark'?

It's not often that paramedics and medics get to save a person's life so dramatically... Despite the inevitable aggro they get, I'm sure they'd rather do that, than drive à corpse to the morgue on their watch. They're professional people and I doubt any of them would countenance letting an addicted person die on the side of the road. Most people are decent, like that.

Agreed. I'm quite close to a number of medical professionals, and all of them would think the same way as you. They'd not countenance not providing treatment to people who need it, regardless of their backstory; it's sort of just how they're wired.

That said, they have expressed their frustration to me many times at the impact of drug and alcohol misuse on our health service. It frustrates them how needing to prioritise ODs and similar for the same recurring patients demonstrably has a negative affect on other patients that need treatment. Unfortunate people are having their health outcomes worsened because of the strain that alcohol and drugs put on A&E. It's a tragedy.

ohnonotgmail

corner of hells wrote: »

It's naloxone in Ireland , the bluish tinge is cyanosis.
Your friend is right , they go from respiratory overdose , extremities blue etc right back to being responsive in minutes.

naxolone and narcan are the same thing. Narcan is a brand name for naxolone.

Pauliedragon

chicorytip wrote: »

Cannabis is a so called "gateway" drug. Most Heroin addicts would have been pot smokers before progressing onto harder drugs. Prolonged Cannabis use has been proven to be a contributory factor in the development of serious physical and mental illnesses such as lung and oesaphagal cancer and psychosis.

That logic is flawed. Most herion addicts ate apples as a child so people who eat apples are on the way to being junkies are they? I smoked weed, took pills and coke in my 20s and I'm alive and functioning normally. As pointed out before countries that legalised it actually saw a reduction in use. As someone who spent a large chunk of my life working in pubs booze is far worse in terms of behaviour compared to most drugs. Legalise it tax it and half the criminal gangs would be out out of business overnight which would free up the cops who are apparently so underresourced they can't control the drunk teenagers in my town breaking windows, fighting each other and being a general nuisance at 3 or 4 in the morning.

seamus

Pauliedragon wrote: »

That logic is flawed.

It's been well trodden as correlation rather than causation anyway.

It turns out that some people are just more likely to take intoxicants than others.

The gateway drug myth came about from the false idea that drug users were always chasing a "bigger" high, were always searching for the pinnacle of fncked up. Thus it sounded logical that someone who started on "small" highs like alcohol and cannabis was likely to seek out bigger highs in coke and heroin.

Not only was the gateway theory statistically debunked, but so too the "bigger high" idea. When I get drunk this weekend, I don't go out next weekend looking to get even drunker.

sbsquarepants

chicorytip wrote: »

Cannabis is a so called "gateway" drug. Most Heroin addicts would have been pot smokers before progressing onto harder drugs. Prolonged Cannabis use has been proven to be a contributory factor in the development of serious physical and mental illnesses such as lung and oesaphagal cancer and psychosis.

There's no such thing as a gateway drug FFS!

It's a safe bet that 99.99999% of peoples first recreational drug to try is caffeine. If there is a gateway, there it is!

Some people are just more experimental than others - I was always one of them. I've taken practically everything, (oddly enough cannabis never appealed to me, I tried it a few times just for shíts and giggles, but I wouldn't be tempted to spend money on it - and it was far from the first one I tried too)

Now I'm in my 40's - I'm perfectly healthy, I never OD'd, never went to jail, lost a job, or sold my ass for the next hit, none of that hysterical shíte you read!

I partied away my youth and had an absolute blast in doing so, then I got a mortgage, kids all that carry on and now the only lasting effect of my drug fuelled years is a load of whacky stories to tell!

Just like most people who use alcohol recreationally don't die of cirrhosis penniless in the gutter, most people who use recreational drugs just have a laugh then get on with their damn lives.

These days the only drugs I touch are the occasional pint, and the daily grind that is my caffeine addiction! (I'm not really addicted to that either - I just like the taste!)

chicorytip

chicorytip wrote: »

Cannabis is a so called "gateway" drug. Most Heroin addicts would have been pot smokers before progressing onto harder drugs.

Not really. That tends to be an arbitrary line people draw in the sand. They could easily have replaced alcohol in the same sentence for example. Most Heroin addicts would have been alcohol drinkers before progressing too.

It is a correlation-causation error and a backwards way of looking at statistics. If someone is going to take drugs like Heroin they are likely to have a history with other drugs. Rather than saying "Most users of X have a history of using Y" the more honest way of evaluating the statistics is to ask "How many people using Y actually progress to X?".

chicorytip wrote: »

Prolonged Cannabis use has been proven to be a contributory factor in the development of serious physical and mental illnesses such as lung and oesaphagal cancer and psychosis.

Well I will not speak too much to cancer because one of the primary ways of engaging with drugs like this is to mix it into cigarette products. So any statistics on cancers using the drug in that way are going to have the statistics on normal Cigarette use coming along for the ride too. There are many products of this kind and many ways to smoke it or use it however. You can eat it. You can smoke it in other ways. There are even some types - one of which I was told a band from Galway named themselves after - where you burn it in the middle of the room in a kinda of "lamp" and sit around it. Many of those ways have no cancer statistics at all. So unless you can separate out the tobacco statistics - discussion of cancer here is clouded. So to speak.

As for the other illnesses you list - I am not sure the link is as strong as you and Peter Hitchens like to pretend. Rather the citations he uses - which I refer to only because you cited none at all - are to specifically "skunk" products which are far from pure. Certainly one of the primary arguments for legalization is to remove such products and have an industry standard and regulated product that is not cut with profitable crap that harms the user! So when you talk of people developing mental illness you should be sure what drug - and how - they were actually taking!

There is also a correlation-causation risk with these illnesses too however. Quite simply people with already existing mental illnesses may be prone to seeking out such drugs. So which statistics are you using? Are they statistics or studies that merely show the correlation between the two? Or have you any studies that show that the drug _actually caused_ them? Somehow I doubt you have the latter. Mainly because I have looked for such studies extensively myself and have not found them.

Amirani

sbsquarepants wrote: »

There's no such thing as a gateway drug FFS!

It's a safe bet that 99.99999% of peoples first recreational drug to try is caffeine. If there is a gateway, there it is!

This is it. There's a flawed logic whereby people will look at Heroin users, see that they used cannabis when younger, and try to put 2 and 2 together. They won't then extend that logic and realise that same heroin user also used alcohol when younger, and caffeine too. If they took this extra step, they'd (hopefully!) realise the ridiculousness of their "gateway" logic.

jopax

I have a question if anyone can answer. I have watched a lot on the heroin epidemic in the States.

All of the stories seem to stem from the use of pain killer opiates which the doctors prescribed.
When the doctors stopped prescribing the people were basically addicts at that stage so they turned to heroin as it was a similar feeling.

We've never had that issue with opiates from doctors so how do people go to picking up a heroin habit.
I know people use other drugs first but does the idea of using heroin not scare the crap out of them.

sbsquarepants

Amirani wrote: »

This is it. There's a flawed logic whereby people will look at Heroin users, see that they used cannabis when younger, and try to put 2 and 2 together. They won't then extend that logic and realise that same heroin user also used alcohol when younger, and caffeine too. If they took this extra step, they'd (hopefully!) realise the ridiculousness of their "gateway" logic.

Most people just won't allow themselves to see their own hypocrisy - how many countless tables full of old lads sat around swamping pints and smoking their brains out (back in the days they were let!) and bemoaning the fact that "de aul drugs have de country ruined":D

sbsquarepants

jopax wrote: »

We've never had that issue with opiates from doctors so how do people go to picking up a heroin habit..

Stating the obvious - but they most likely picked it up from using heroin.

jopax wrote: »

I know people use other drugs first but does the idea of using heroin not scare the crap out of them.

Apparently not.

Different things appeal to different people, heroin never appealed to me, but other "scary" drugs did.

Just like some people like spicy food and others stick to coddle and bacon and cabbage. Just horses for courses!

I think in large part, the big bad "drug pusher" is a mythical beast. Any drugs I ever used, I went looking for, maybe after trying them first at a party or something like that. I don't think a stranger ever asked me would I like to buy drugs in Ireland, in fact I don't even remember anyone ever telling me it had happened to them.

dartboardio

sbsquarepants wrote: »

There's no such thing as a gateway drug FFS!

It's a safe bet that 99.99999% of peoples first recreational drug to try is caffeine. If there is a gateway, there it is!

Some people are just more experimental than others - I was always one of them. I've taken practically everything, (oddly enough cannabis never appealed to me, I tried it a few times just for shíts and giggles, but I wouldn't be tempted to spend money on it - and it was far from the first one I tried too)

Now I'm in my 40's - I'm perfectly healthy, I never OD'd, never went to jail, lost a job, or sold my ass for the next hit, none of that hysterical shíte you read!

I partied away my youth and had an absolute blast in doing so, then I got a mortgage, kids all that carry on and now the only lasting effect of my drug fuelled years is a load of whacky stories to tell!

Just like most people who use alcohol recreationally don't die of cirrhosis penniless in the gutter, most people who use recreational drugs just have a laugh then get on with their damn lives.

These days the only drugs I touch are the occasional pint, and the daily grind that is my caffeine addiction! (I'm not really addicted to that either - I just like the taste!)

Maybe not a gateway but a masssssive factor. No denying that.

Had I not smoked weed for years I would have never tried a pill or cocaine. For most people it is a huge factor /gateway whatever you wanna call it

gctest50

corner of hells wrote: »

It's naloxone in Ireland ,

.

It made $735m for an Irish team :


https://www.irishtimes.com/business/health-pharma/making-millions-how-irish-team-hit-735m-jackpot-with-overdose-rescue-drug-1.3614015

How Irish team hit $735m jackpot with overdose rescue drug

Opioid crisis helped growth of overdose rescue drug marketed by Adapt Pharma


..........naloxone, was a well-known product. First introduced in 1971, it was commonly used in anaesthesia, reviving patients after they had been put to sleep with fentanyl.

sbsquarepants

dartboardio wrote: »

Maybe not a gateway but a masssssive factor. No denying that.

Had I not smoked weed for years I would have never tried a pill or cocaine. For most people it is a huge factor /gateway whatever you wanna call it

What made you smoke weed in that case?

Personally speaking I had been doing coke, speed, pills and hallucinogens for years before I ever tried cannabis. I've never seen anyone argue that coke leads to cannabis though.

I'm 45 years old now and I've never tried a cigarette - there's no linear progression from one to another that I can see.

Generally people are either the type that's keen to try various things out, or they're the type that's afraid / opposed to them - after that it's just down to personal preference or simple opportunity.

jopax

sbsquarepants wrote: »

Stating the obvious - but they most likely picked it up from using heroin.


I understand that but what I meant was in the States most of them were allready addicted so they had to go to heroin to get their fix.
I just meant why would someone purposely choose to go down that road when they know where it leads to

I know your right in what your saying, I just don't understand the mentality.
I can understand people dabbling in other drugs allright, but not heroin, maybe I'm just missing something

Maybe only a heroin addict could give a reason

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Giveaway wrote: »

Won't work. Inate ability of humans to look at an awful situation and say," won't happen to me". Its a very big psychological ask to analyse and confront one's flaws/risky behaviour and take remedial action. And shure it the gubbermints fault/always somebody else's fault

Yup. It’s a self-protective thing for humans to be able to distance themselves from unpleasant things and rationalise why it won’t happen to them.

wakka12

Autecher wrote: »

Was there supposed to be?

You cant say something like 'drug use is rampant' and give absolutely nothing to go and no reason for people reading it to believe what youre saying is true, especially because its not widely considered by most people that drug use is rampant in normal society

sbsquarepants

jopax wrote: »

I understand that but what I meant was in the States most of them were allready addicted so they had to go to heroin to get their fix.
I just meant why would someone purposely choose to go down that road when they know where it leads to

It's the exact same mechanism though, the opiate problem in America doesn't stem from unlucky people with back trouble who just ended up addicted through no fault of their own, the majority of them just popped off to some Dr. Feelgood and got scripts for Oxycontin for the craic, it's a very addictive substance (some people are probably also more susceptible to both it's effects and it's grasp I suppose)

I've actually tried it recreationally myself once, just out of curiosity after a genuine accident happened to leave me with a load of them, it's not unpleasant I suppose, but it just wouldn't be for me, I never bothered to repeat the experience. Again, it's horses for courses I suppose.

The problem they have with oxy is bad enough, but the real scary one is fentanyl - that's a full on train wreck a bit further on down the tracks and no mistake.

Dravokivich

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Canabis ≠ Criminality. Judging by the quantities I smoked, I should be Al Capone.
The surprising thing, I'm not.
Correlation ≠ Causation. Sadly that is a rather common error in simplistic argumentation.
Otherwise you could argue that almost all criminals wear shoes. Ergo, shoes cause criminality.
It's Tiger Rock logic.

Where else can it come from here?

Tomhammer

What will happen now with fentanyl being produced in Chinese labs and being posted by mail order?

Some lad in the UK opened an envelope containing Carfentanil and dropped dead In front of his mother

chicorytip

Heroin addicts and drug (except Alcohol) abusers tend to come from the poorest sections of society. By definition, many will be poorly educated, unemployed, socialise only with other addicts and have dysfunctional family backgrounds. This combination of circumstances will inevitably lead to poly drug abuse.