Laudamotion RTO Stansted

smurfjed

Will people ever learn to leave their BAGS behind.



Full story https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6762267/Stansted-Airport-closes-passenger-jet-evacuated.html

Cloudio9

smurfjed wrote: »

Will people ever learn to leave their BAGS behind.

Probably not.

Is evacuation necessary here?

Gaoth Laidir

Rather than click on a Daily Mail link read the actual facts of the incident here.

http://avherald.com/h?article=4c4d9631&opt=0

billy few mates

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Rather than click on a Daily Mail link read the actual facts of the incident here.

http://avherald.com/h?article=4c4d9631&opt=0

But whatever you do, don't read the comments...!

colbarr

smurfjed wrote: »

Will people ever learn to leave their BAGS behind.

Can airlines fine/charge passengers who take their bags with them for potentially endangering other passengers lives?

IngazZagni

I remember a speech from a Boeing test pilot who said they were pushing to introduce a system where all the hatbins could be locked during landing and then only unlocked after the seatbelt sign is switched off. Same goes for takeoff. Cost is the issue though. Cost vs safety benefits is always a difficult issue.

Nijmegen

They should be more explicit in the safety announcements as to why people should leave their bags. I recall videos from the EK fire that resulted in a firefighter losing his life, with almost every passenger scrambling around for their bags delaying the evacuation.

devnull

The history of OE-LOA suggests this problem may have started a few days earlier.

It operated OE306 from Vienna to Madrid on 26th February but didn't operate the return leg and the return flight OE307 was cancelled for a reason that I'm not able to establish.

OE-LOA then went and did a non revenue service flight on 27th February from Madrid to Dusseldorf, where it didn't fly again until 1st March, on a positioning flight from Dusseldorf to Vienna.

It then operated the sector from Vienna to Stansted before the above mentioned fly from Stansted to Vienna where it stopped on the runway.

Who carries out Laudamotion maintenance? Is it in Dusseldorf by any chance?

Strumms

If there is an evacuation and you need to get off the aircraft immediately then it is because you have a dangerous situation involving a very large plane, possible 10 + tonnes plus of fuel, 180 + people, their lives could be in danger but....yeah we shall compromise the safety and lives of ourselves and everyone so we can delay to remove our souvenirs, primark finery and whatever else. I wouldn’t be against cameras on board and retrospective action including criminal and airline bans accross the industry for anyone leaving with bags.

Noxegon

Nijmegen wrote: »

They should be more explicit in the safety announcements as to why people should leave their bags.

That won’t help. The type of person who takes their bag during an emergency is also the type of person who ignores the safety announcement.

Personally I’d like to see the safety demo taken away from the aircraft entirely. Instead, passengers could be forced to answer a series of questions on a computerized test in the departure lounge. Anything less than a perfect score would mean no boarding pass.

Thinking this one through, perhaps frequent flyers could be given some sort of dispensation to answer the questions without watching the video first. Or maybe test every three months.

It will never happen. But I can dream.

Irish Steve

And just maybe, if the airlines hadn't gone overboard on getting rid of baggage handling and systems, and charging obscene sums for hold bags, the problem of people taking cabin bags in an emergency might not have become so significant.

Having said that, there are items that are significantly important, especially to business travellers, like computers, and the loss of a laptop computer in some cases will be the final nail that destroys a company, and however theoretical it might be, using the cloud for a backup of critical data before each flight is not likely to be an option that is available to the vast majority of the travelling public.

In some cases, the loss of things like passports, other critical documents, and possibly critical medications may well present a problem that is every bit as dangerous as an emergency evacuation from an aircraft.

The unfortunate reality is that the majority of publicised evacuations where things like bags etc are taken off the aircraft are also the evacuations that have the least risk of injury to the passengers, and take place in the presence of social media captures, a "real" emergency is more likely to be taking place without slides, and possible after an emergency landing off airfield, so there will be less opportunity for people to get "clutter" and take it with them, and they will be (hopefully) more motivated to get out of the cabin of the aircraft.

Nijmegen

I keep my jacket on and my passport, wallet etc in the pocket at takeoff. I have what I need on me in case something goes wrong. Anything in the bag isn’t worth my life, or that of some emergency responder delayed dealing with the problem because I simply must take my bag off with me. It’s the height of selfishness.

Strumms

Irish Steve wrote: »

Having said that, there are items that are significantly important, especially to business travellers, like computers, and the loss of a laptop computer in some cases will be the final nail that destroys a company, and however theoretical it might be, using the cloud for a backup of critical data before each flight is not likely to be an option that is available to the vast majority of the travelling public.

In some cases, the loss of things like passports, other critical documents, and possibly critical medications may well present a problem that is every bit as dangerous as an emergency evacuation from an aircraft.

Pure Rubbish..

If you run a company where the loss of a laptop can compromise the existence of said company then you shouldn’t be running one. Anything can happened to a laptop such as being nicked, damaged etc. if 10 people on a flight during an emergency evacuation get up, block the aisle in an attempt to get their laptop its a recipe for serious consequences, injury and death.

Passports / documentation - can and are replaced, issues of temporary one etc.
Medications - will be available through hospitals via response plan.
Laptop - it takes minutes to backup work as you do throughout the day/end of day.

No excuse. Evacuation....get off the ****ing plane, you have a work laptop or a bag on Disney toys I don’t care, get off !:rolleyes:

theguzman

This issue has raised its head several times in recent times and it is not just happening to stingey low cost carriers either, it was first highlighted in the Asiana Airlines flight 214 in San Francisco back in 2013 where passengers valued their baggage over life.

I think one solution would be a system of central locking on the overhead lockers, it would add minimal extra weight to plane but it would prevent passengers retrieving their luggage or attempting to in an Emergency situation.

Also passengers found on the tarmac with luggage after an emergency evacuation should be heavily fined and imprisoned, let the media have a circus but then get the word out that if you try this stunt you will pay dearly. It needs to be strongly emphasised in the safety message prior to take off which is so widely ignored nowadays.

If I was a passenger and I see people trying to get their luggage and a threat to life imminent I'd just simply Rugby tackle straight through the selfish idiots.

Irish Steve

Strumms wrote: »

Pure Rubbish..

If you run a company where the loss of a laptop can compromise the existence of said company then you shouldn’t be running one. Anything can happened to a laptop such as being nicked, damaged etc. if 10 people on a flight during an emergency evacuation get up, block the aisle in an attempt to get their laptop its a recipe for serious consequences, injury and death.

Passports / documentation - can and are replaced, issues of temporary one etc.
Medications - will be available through hospitals via response plan.
Laptop - it takes minutes to backup work as you do throughout the day/end of day.

No excuse. Evacuation....get off the ****ing plane, you have a work laptop or a bag on Disney toys I don’t care, get off !:rolleyes:

And your suggestions of cameras and banning people or taking criminal action against them etc is also pure rubbish.

Computers. 40 years in the computer industry, (and involved with aviation) tells me that there are way too many situations where companies (and individuals) are very much NOT prepared or secured in a way to cover loss or damage to critical data or systems (for a wide range of reasons), I've had to deal with the consequences of such situations on more than one occasion.

Medication via hospitals via response plan, so narrow a view, for that to happen, the aircraft has to be in a country that has appropriate medical services, which over massive swathes of the world is not necessarily the case, and in a place where emergency services are able to provide a timely response to the incident, but that also may not be possible, so essential medication, taken in to the cabin on the direct advice of all carriers, is not something that can just be disregarded as not essential.

Don't get me wrong, I too am not at all happy to see the sort of crass stupidity that goes on when an incident occurs, some of the supposed cabin bags that get hammered into the overhead bins should never have got airside, let alone in to the aircraft cabin, but that is an issue that needs to be addressed on a wider basis than as a result of an evacuation.

The whole concept of emergency evacuation and things like overwing exits makes a nonsense of getting people out quickly, the change over time of the density and pitch of seating, the width of the aisle, and from a passenger point of view in terms of the average age of passengers, and (more significantly) the average weight of passengers has resulted in a scenario where I for one would be less than confident that a percentage of passengers on a flight would be able to get out of an overwing exit (such as the 4 found on a 737-800) in a timely and safe manner.

I've seen plenty of recordings of staged evacuation tests of modern aircraft, and the test subject do not represent a valid cross section of the loads seen on flights, and do not always represent the mobility etc of the likely mix seen. Yes, they get the people out in the required time to achieve certification, but we all know that what then happens in real life will be very different.

I'm not sure which is worse, people wasting time getting things out of the overhead bins, or people wasting time capturing the event on their video device. Both are equally unhelpful.

The unfortunate reality is that the race to the bottom in too many areas of modern low cost flying has resulted in an overall experience that is no longer pleasant, and in some cases potentially not as safe as it used to be, but there seems to be no way to persuade the people making the decisions that the overall experience needs to be looked at.

I'm also concerned that in recent times there seems to be a worrying increase in the number of engine failures that are occurring on newer variants of both Boeing and Airbus aircraft, and I can't decide what the underlying reason for that it, all I know from the statistics and reports that I see on a very regular basis is that there are too many failures for comfort. OK, very few of the failures result in accidents, but I'd prefer to see a much lower number of failures for a relatively low fleet size.

Nijmegen

I tend to buy an exit seat and I like the window. In the event of an evacuation and if instructed to do so / it’s safe, I’m popping that hatch and good luck and screw anyone with the company secrets in the overhead. I agree aged people, fat people, etc, will slow it all down. But bags only introduce a predictable delay. I think anyone who gets off an evacuated, slide popped aircraft with their bag ought to be prosecuted. If the plane burns up with all your stuff aboard, it was an urgent enough situation to demand you leave without it.

As for why engines are having such troubles, my assumption was that the engineering demands for newer, lighter, more efficient, quieter engines is introducing novel design changes that are the engine equivalent of square windows on the de Havilland Comet.

duskyjoe

Nijmegen wrote: »

As for why engines are having such troubles, my assumption was that the engineering demands for newer, lighter, more efficient, quieter engines is introducing novel design changes that are the engine equivalent of square windows on the de Havilland Comet.

Spot on. Geared fan engines are so more complex..... inviting tech issues

devnull

The aircraft affected in this incident operated a positioning flight from Stansted to Dusseldorf this morning and is due to re-enter revenue services in the morning according to FR24.

Chris_5339762

What are peoples thoughts on taking backpacks from under the seat in front of them in these situations? It doesn't delay anyone, at least not like rooting in overhead bins.

Nijmegen

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

What are peoples thoughts on taking backpacks from under the seat in front of them in these situations? It doesn't delay anyone, at least not like rooting in overhead bins.

Backpacks use up space that someone else might want to use to get out into the isle from their seat, or might delay you going out a wing exit. Seconds matter, backpacks don't.

devnull

OE-LOA ended up doing a 4 hour trip from Dusseldorf to Tenerife on it's first morning back in service, nothing like a nice easy short flight to ease it back in

billy few mates

devnull wrote: »

OE-LOA ended up doing a 4 hour trip from Dusseldorf to Tenerife on it's first morning back in service, nothing like a nice easy short flight to ease it back in

Longer flights are less stressful on the airframe and engine, not that it matters because once the aircraft is released to service it's considered fully serviceable so can be used on any route.