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swa 3 core colours

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  • 02-03-2019 9:33pm
    #1
    de78
    Registered Users Posts: 4 ✭


    Title, im doing some costings for work and supplies we need to get and this has come up a few times now what are the current colours for 3 core swa as ive seen both brown/grey/black and blue/yellow-green/brown


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    #2
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    de78 wrote: »
    Title, im doing some costings for work and supplies we need to get and this has come up a few times now what are the current colours for 3 core swa as ive seen both brown/grey/black and blue/yellow-green/brown

    Brown black grey is for 3 phase. Other one is single phase.


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    #3
    aido79
    Registered Users Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭aido79


    de78 wrote: »
    Title, im doing some costings for work and supplies we need to get and this has come up a few times now what are the current colours for 3 core swa as ive seen both brown/grey/black and blue/yellow-green/brown

    I'm open to correction but I don't think 3 core brown/grey/black exists as it would normally be a 4 core cable with an earth.


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    #4
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,596 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    aido79 wrote: »
    I'm open to correction but I don't think 3 core brown/grey/black exists as it would normally be a 4 core cable with an earth.

    It does exist although they are less common than the 4 core.
    When wiring a motor from a variable speed drive a 4 core should never be used (between the drive and the motor, it is ok to supply the drive with a 4 core). I know that people often do this, but it is ill advised. It is far better to use a 3 core screened cable (such as an SWA) with a separate CPC.

    Better still a concentric VSD specific type cable should be used like this. The only downside to these cables is the cost, for this reason these cables are generally used for the larger motors with longer cable runs.


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    #5
    Risteard81
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    aido79 wrote: »
    de78 wrote: »
    Title, im doing some costings for work and supplies we need to get and this has come up a few times now what are the current colours for 3 core swa as ive seen both brown/grey/black and blue/yellow-green/brown

    I'm open to correction but I don't think 3 core brown/grey/black exists as it would normally be a 4 core cable with an earth.
    All UK Standard cable will be in phase colours for 3-core.


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    #6
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,596 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Risteard81 wrote: »
    All UK Standard cable will be in phase colours for 3-core.

    I think aido means that he only see this as a 4 core with the 3 phase colors + earth, never a 3 core without the earth.


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    #7
    Bruthal
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,422 ✭✭✭✭Bruthal


    Ye can always heat shrink it red yellow blue if ever needed:pac:


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    #8
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,596 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Bruthal wrote: »
    Ye can always heat shrink it red yellow blue if ever needed:pac:

    This is exactly what happens in the real world but as I am sure you know strictly speaking this is not permitted.


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    #9
    Tuco88
    Registered Users Posts: 1,051 ✭✭✭Tuco88


    Its a silly rule, It think sleeving is allowed in the 18th edition?

    Well, it might change in the new regs.


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    #10
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,596 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Tuco88 wrote: »
    Well, it might change in the new regs.

    I did a search and could not find mention of it, so I doubt it.

    Edit: Just found it, see extract below. As the cables have to be coloured "throughout their length" heat shrink is not an option.

    514.3.Z2 Identification of cores in multi-core cables and cords
    The identification of insulated conductors in rigid and flexible cables and cords with 2 to 5 conductors shall comply with HD 308, see Annex 514ZC. The line conductors shall be identified, throughout their length, by the colours brown, black or grey.


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    #11
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,596 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Of course the new rules are just draft at present.


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    #12
    Tuco88
    Registered Users Posts: 1,051 ✭✭✭Tuco88


    Thats ET101? I'm sure the 17th and 18th edition its permitted. Well thats assuming IS10101 is much in much a copy of it?


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    #13
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,596 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Tuco88 wrote: »
    Thats ET101?

    No, that is from the draft copy of IS10101
    I'm sure the 17th and 18th edition its permitted.

    I don’t think so, but IS10101 is what counts.
    Different countries will always have their own variations.


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    #14
    Risteard81
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    2011 wrote: »
    I don’t think so, but IS10101 is what counts.
    It has always been permitted by the IEE Wiring Regulations (BS7671). ET101/proposed I.S. 10101 has always been different in this regard.

    BS7671 requires that conductors are correctly identified at their terminations. Only recently has this been extended to include "preferably throughout their length". However this remains only a preference and remarking of conductors remains very common practice.


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    #15
    Tuco88
    Registered Users Posts: 1,051 ✭✭✭Tuco88


    Thanks for the update lads.


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    #16
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,596 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Risteard81 wrote: »
    It has always been permitted by the IEE Wiring Regulations (BS7671). ET101/proposed I.S. 10101 has always been different in this regard.

    Fair enough.
    Like I said different countries have their own variations.
    It’s IS10101 / ET101 that counts here.


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    #17
    Risteard81
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    2011 wrote: »
    It’s IS10101 / ET101 that counts here.
    Absolutely not in question. I was simply confirming that this is indeed a pronounced difference between the two standards - and indeed one which has caught countless people out in the past. A lot of RECI Inspectors will have pulled up installations over this issue.


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    #18
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,596 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Risteard81 wrote: »
    and indeed one which has caught countless people out in the past. A lot of RECI Inspectors will have pulled up installations over this issue.

    It would be a great step forward for many installations if that was the most serious issue that could be found.


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    #19
    Risteard81
    Registered Users Posts: 2,567 ✭✭✭Risteard81


    2011 wrote: »
    It would be a great step forward for many installations if that was the most serious issue that could be found.

    Perhaps, but it would be wrong to pick and choose which Rules to observe.


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    #20
    2011
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional East Moderators Posts: 12,596 Mod ✭✭✭✭2011


    Risteard81 wrote: »
    Perhaps, but it would be wrong to pick and choose which Rules to observe.

    Generally I agree, in certain cases you are forced to “pick and choose”. Admittedly these cases are few and far between.

    I worked on a large plant a few years ago, massive parts of the site are quite old. Due to the age of these sections the phase colours were red, yellow and blue. The decision was made (client side) to maintain these colours and as far as I remember the logic was that this was in the interest of safety. I was not involved in this decision or the implementation, but I can see the logic in it. All new parts of the plant use the correct phase colours.

    We also had a discussion on this forum about socket heights in a cattle shed. The OP wanted to mount them above the maximum permitted height and initially the RECI inspector would not allow it. The reason is that the cattle would wreck them and possibly be at risk. No barrier would be able to stop this. To be fair to the RECI inspector, he saw the light in the end. Mounting these sockets at the permitted height would have been dangerous and not installing them at all would have been worse as anyone that knows farmers will know the guntering that can go on in a farm yard (no offence intended to farmers).

    Safety must trump everything.


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