Driving in Italy

Samuel T. Cogley

So I've driven in Sicily, dealt with the 'aggressive, but politely aware of you' style - for example never a bother coming off the stupidly short slip roads. Is Italy similar?

Flying into Bergamo, heading to Trento, bumming around lake Garda and Verona for a week. Any tips, tricks, etc. Rented an Aygo because it was cheap.

I have excess insurance.

Seth Brundle

Drive on the right!

TrailerBob

Tailgating... Mopeds will come past from all directions, zero patience, chronic tailgating, no lane discipline in built up areas, oh and tailgating..

Those were my experiences of that area of Italy. Much worse between Milan & Bergamo for some reason. Further north and east was not as bad. Garda town, and those areas have lots of tourists and cyclists so keep your eyes peeled. There's definitely a dent the shape of my towbar in 2 Lancias in Milan

Samuel T. Cogley

They'll definitely tailgate me, they did in Sicily - I drive like a little old lady!

rubberdungeon

Familiarise yourself with ZTL’s. As far as I know Verona has a restricted area ZTL ("Zona Traffico Limitato") in the centre where driving is authorised to ZTL permit holders only. A ZTL-zone is controlled by video cameras. If you've booked a hotel within the ZTL, ask your hotel to assist you with the registration of the license plate number of your car.

Max Q

They don't indicate when changing lanes on the Autostrada, they just switch lanes when the mood suits them.


They'll drive almost two abreast on single carriageway roads to overtake, don't expect the oncoming car to make much effort to pull in.


You need nerves of steel and need to be assertive, don't be shy with the horn if needs be.

grogi

Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »

So I've driven in Sicily, dealt with the 'aggressive, but politely aware of you' style - for example never a bother coming off the stupidly short slip roads. Is Italy similar?

Flying into Bergamo, heading to Trento, bumming around lake Garda and Verona for a week. Any tips, tricks, etc. Rented an Aygo because it was cheap.

I have excess insurance.

North is much more Germanlike than south of the country. Don't speed and don't park in weird places, pay attention to closed city centres and you'll be fine

GustavoFring

Get something with a bit of poke - motorway slip roads in something slow can be seat of the pants kinda stuff. They're really, really short for the most part.

grogi

GustavoFring wrote: »

Get something with a bit of poke - motorway slip roads in something slow can be seat of the pants kinda stuff. They're really, really short for the most part.

That's why there is the emergency lane, to gain speed.

Samuel T. Cogley

GustavoFring wrote: »

Get something with a bit of poke - motorway slip roads in something slow can be seat of the pants kinda stuff.

I'll just have to improvise - it's an Aygo. To be fair I got away with a C1 that we nicknamed '****box' in Sicily. God that thing was a bloody pain to drive at any speed uphill.

Atlantic Dawn

Get an automatic, using a manual with the other hand is a pain in the hole.

Samuel T. Cogley

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Get an automatic, using a manual with the other hand is a pain in the hole.

Hadn't thought of that - but I got 7 days for €89 and it over triple for anything Auto.

Sleeper12

I've driven in Italy several times from the Airport to Lake Garda without issue. There are quite a few cyclists training on the hilly narrow roads. This sticks in my memory rather than any difficulty with driving. Oh and the fact that they must have thought I was mad using an indicator when changing lanes.

RobAMerc

despite all the hysteria on this forum, the italians while a bit mad are much more skillful drivers than we are here. Noone hangs out in the outside lane and falls asleep, they dont all q up within 5mtrs of the back of a slow car, but never overtake causing you to overtake 6 cars in one go to get buy, and there is a heap of other things they do that just makes sense to keep traffic moving that we would never dream of here ( like overtake slower cars ! )

The Aygo might be perfect as a lot of Italian cities have tiny back streets. Just a note. It is an awful long way from Bergamo to Sicily !

Samuel T. Cogley

I've upgraded to a Focus as now that I think about it that bloody C1 was a nightmare. 113.50 isn't bad for a week I think.

w211

Remember to drive on right side not on wrong side. You can easily drive there if you do not use the Irish/uk car. Take a local car and you can drive as pro.

Marcusm

w211 wrote: »

Remember to drive on right side not on wrong side. You can easily drive there if you do not use the Irish/uk car. Take a local car and you can drive as pro.

Personally, apart from automated barriers and toll booths, I find it much easier to drive my own car on the continent (lots of journeys, up to 6 weeks long across 3 different cars). This is because I am constantly aware that I am on the wrong side and can focus on what is happening outside. When using a rental (and i’ve Just done a week in Lisbon in a rented Qashqai), I tend to focus on the strangeness inside the car, ie gearstick in wrong place etc.

Wishbone Ash

Tailgating is particularly prevalent when climbing or descending narrow twisty mountain boreens. The 'locals' seem to have no fear of going off the edge. Sometimes easier to pull over if you get an opportunity. It also seems to be the done thing to sound the horn when coming into a very tight narrow bend.

The road around Lake Garda itself appear very narrow and traffic moves fast. It's a bit nerve wracking going counter-clockwise as you keep thinking you're going to rub along the rock face wall.


And respect the cyclists. I've cycled in Italy numerous times and the Italians are very respectful giving plenty of space. Tourists on the other hand.....

...and when going through narrow unlit tunnels, bear in mind that a cyclist may be ahead.

hoganj

I rented a Fiat 500 in Sardinia and found it excellent due to it's nippyness. The one piece of advice I would pass on would be parking on hills. Just be wary about parking on steep hills if there are cars parking either side of you. There might be a strong smell of clutch burn as you try to exit said space without damaging other cars! :eek:

Tropheus

rubberdungeon wrote: »

Familiarise yourself with ZTL’s. As far as I know Verona has a restricted area ZTL ("Zona Traffico Limitato") in the centre where driving is authorised to ZTL permit holders only. A ZTL-zone is controlled by video cameras. If you've booked a hotel within the ZTL, ask your hotel to assist you with the registration of the license plate number of your car.

This is important! Many tourists see it as a money racket particularly if you're hiring a car. Hire companies should alert their customers and make them aware of these zones. However, they will charge a €40 admin fee every time they have to provide your details to local authorities for a fine so it's in their interest to stay stum.

neris

try to get ahead of trucks where possible especially near hills. On the motorways the trucks have no problem overtaking another truck at a crawl and the truck been over taken wont slow down to let the over taking truck in so you can get stuck for a few hundred meters at 90km

garv123

Did over 1500km last year from Milan airport towards the lake garda and other lakes.
Never had any real issues. Drivers were all fine, from narrow single lane roads to motorways.

One bit of bother was trying to figure out which exit to take at a roundabout if your relying on GPS, if its a big roundabout with flyovers or motorway overhead, the gps can get confused and redirect you.
Just be sure to check which exit on approach and stick to that.

My only advice would be stay off the A4 unless it is really necessary. It's busy in a way our motorways just aren't. Huge amounts of commercial traffic from all over Europe that is a bit of a law unto itself in my experience. Maybe I'm just soft but I found it pretty stressful.

I drove Milan airport to lake Garda, motorway nearly the whole way so no issues there.
Road a bit smaller around the lake but once your used to being on the other side, it's grand.
If your worried I do think an automatic makes it easier, less to think about.

Try driving in Albania OP, I think I can drive in any country after that!

Philb76

Drove in lake garda two years ago it was grand lots of Germans in Porsches

At least back in 2013 the correct driving speed was to pretend that the the MPH display was showing km/h except on Autostradas that have plenty of automated speed cameras.

I was riding a 1000 cc motorcycle and was overtaken in a town by a granny driving a Panda as I kept more than a 1 car lenght between myself and the queue ahead of me. I got also overtaken by a MILF and her daughter on a scooter coming back from school.

Ubbquittious

Nice part of the country. I have driven around there a fair bit. For the best roads head North and into Switzerland. Have a go at the Simplon pass even though you're probably not supposed to because its a rental car. Dont mind the motorways unless you're in a rush... boring as fcuk you might as well stay at home.

josip

A german guy did a guide on how best to drive in Italy a few years ago.

H3llR4iser

First of all...Sicily IS Italy, just straightening things up

The area you're going to, you should mostly be ok - there won't be the over-aggressive style that you find in the South (including Sicily).

Main difference: compared to Irish roads, be prepared to the fact everything happens way, way, way faster - from moving between lanes to setting off at traffic lights; not quite like F1 starts, but certainly much faster than then "Oh, there's a green light...yes...what to do...ah right, first gear...oh shoite, the handbrake...right...releasing clutch...bit more slowly...ah yes...setting off..." and the bloody light is red again like you find in most parts of Ireland, especially outside of Dublin. People also tend to drive quite fast wherever there aren't average speed cameras - especially on b-roads and secondary national roads (called "statale" and marked with the unfortunate symbol "SS"). They WILL tailgate if you're slow, and they WILL beep if you take forever to start at a light.

Some EXTREMELY important pointers (you'll know about a few as you've been to Sicily)

- Motorways (Autostrade) are RIDDLED with average speed cameras, called "Tutor". They detect you between each and every "arc" regardless of where you're positioned on the road, don't believe the many tossers that will tell you "it won't work if..." - it WILL work.

- NEVER EVER cross a light showing amber; There are cameras installed on almost all of them, called "photored", that WILL nab you

- Fines for traffic violations in Italy are simply insane in monetary terms

- DO NOT DRIVE on the "emergency lane" nor use it as an acceleration lane as it's been suggested; There are cameras that check that too (although not as widespread as the Tutor system). The penalty for such a violation is the suspension of your driving license. It is allowed to use the emergency lane if you need to EXIT the motorway within the next 500 meters in a situation of high congestion (basically, standing traffic)

- Road indications are switched around compared to most EU countries: blue for national roads, green for motorways; Speed limit is 110 km/h on national roads, 130 km/h on motorways. Expect EVERYONE to be driving at exactly these speeds due to the "electronic eyes" - at times of high traffic, it can be stressful as you'll find yourself unable to go anywhere, in a "compact pack of cars" traveling at the speed limit.

- ZTLs are indeed a huge trap: more often than not, even the locals can't figure out exactly how they work. When I was living in Rome I got fined a couple of times; In both cases, I had stopped, read through the "Information panel" and concluded that I was outside the times to which the limitation applied - turns out I was somehow wrong. ZTLs are often marked with an electronic sign which carries a completely intuitive and deceitful message: when they say "VARCO ATTIVO" (which means "Active Gateway") it actually means YOU CAN'T DRIVE there...go figure.

- Most people drive impossibly small dinky cars; The Aygo would've been perfect, the Focus will almost feel like a van. When I had an Alfa 156, most of my friends referred to it as an "ocean liner"...

- Watch out for mopeds/small bikes, there are millions of them EVERYWHERE and most riders seem to come with an insatiable deathwish

- Be very watchful for areas in the cities marked with blue lines when you park; You need to pay to be there - and it can be extremely counterintuitive; Depending on the town/city, they might not have any app nor automated machines and you'll need to go to a tobacco shop ("Tabaccheria", marked with a bit black T on a white sign, some cafe/bars also double as one) and buy parking vouchers called "grattini"; Before leaving the car, you'll need to "scratch off" (like a lottery ticket) the date and time your parking begun; Failing to do so might very well result in the car being towed away (although most cities just fine you)

- Something not often mentioned: if you drive up to a Police/Carabinieri car driving very slowly and it's safe for you to overtake them without exceeding the speed limit or creating any danger (e.g. on a dual carriageway like a national road or motorway), overtake them rather than sit on their tail; They basically do this on purpose and tend to stop drivers who don't overtake, taking it as a sign something is wrong (no insurance/license/tax, car not roadworthy, stolen goods on board and so on...)

- If you get to one of the "take a ticket" toll boots (they're normally at the beginning of a motorway), you might find the ticket already sitting there when you get to it. Take the ticket and before taking off, push the button so a new ticket comes out for the driver behind you; You're not required to do so, but it's a form of unspoken courtesy between drivers on journeys long or short. Been like that since I have memory of seeing it from my dad's car backseat, in the early 1980s

josip

H3llR4iser wrote: »

...
- If you get to one of the "take a ticket" toll boots (they're normally at the beginning of a motorway), you might find the ticket already sitting there when you get to it. Take the ticket and before taking off, push the button so a new ticket comes out for the driver behind you; You're not required to do so, but it's a form of unspoken courtesy between drivers on journeys long or short. Been like that since I have memory of seeing it from my dad's car backseat, in the early 1980s

Aha.......

ltdslipdiff

Got absolutely rode on parking and speeding fines when I was in Chianti region a few years back. Watch for gatso's and drop the speed as soon as you see traffic cones anywhere even if it looks like there are no roadworks. I'm convinced they have a database of rented cars to charge fines to, I was being overtaken everywhere I went yet I got speeding fines?? (I was careful!!)

H3llR4iser

josip wrote: »

Aha.......

What? I have a few colleagues and friends who were utterly puzzled by this - they thought somebody forgot the ticket, or that there was some issue with the machine...

ltdslipdiff wrote: »

Got absolutely rode on parking and speeding fines when I was in Chianti region a few years back. Watch for gatso's and drop the speed as soon as you see traffic cones anywhere even if it looks like there are no roadworks. I'm convinced they have a database of rented cars to charge fines to, I was being overtaken everywhere I went yet I got speeding fines?? (I was careful!!)

You most likely never saw the cameras that nailed you as they were hidden/illegally placed/put in places nobody of sane mind would put one; While the Polizia Stradale are bound and mostly respect certain rules (speed cameras, either fixed or mobile, need to be very clearly visible from a distance and warnings must be in place - it's supposed to be a "deterrent" afterall, not a cash cow!), local authorities more or less do as they please. There have been multiple instances of local police forces being caught setting up illegal checks; Often involving stupidly low speed limits poppin up overnight (I've seen limits of "5 km/h" in places...) or just checks on roads they wouldn't have jurisdiction over (outside of town limits, motorways and so on).



To give you a picture - about 18 years ago, a lot of my then coworkers got continually fined for speeding, always in the same street not far from the office. Turns out here was a city council office there...and a speed camera was literally hidden under one of the windows - conveniently behind a "5 km/h" speed limit sign (just to say, most people walk at around 5.5 km/h...).

josip

H3llR4iser wrote: »

What? I have a few colleagues and friends who were utterly puzzled by this - they thought somebody forgot the ticket, or that there was some issue with the machine...

We drive across Italy a couple of times every year and I always thought it was a setting on the machines to have the ticket ready for the next driver.
It never occurred to me that it was a national convention.
I haven't seen it on ticket-based motorways in other countries.
Tx for the enlightenment.