Mods

TheValeyard

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Not on his profile I can't

You ever a mod? (you've over 20000 posts!)

Ken.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Ah that explains it.. you have form so.

Now, about my points above....?

I've answered your points. I banned someone. My fück up and I fixed it about 5 minutes later.

As to the name changes. I'll change it hourly if I wish.

Baggly

What's buggin' ya Kaiser. Come on now tell Uncle Pter.

_Kaiser_

Nosnon wrote: »

I've answered your points. I banned someone. My fück up and I fixed it about 5 minutes later.

As to the name changes. I'll change it hourly if I wish.

And that attitude is exactly why the Moderation standards and selection process on this site is in SERIOUS need of review and overhaul.

I covered this on another thread which was similarly ignored while ye all defended each other, but I for one am tired of this juvenile, insulting double-standard from those who we as normal posters are meant to take seriously as Mods

If you want to change yer names, step down or use a "regular" profile. It's hard enough keeping track of the revolving door of Mods without some guy thinking he's funny and then going on to sanction posters for often questionable reasons

(cue the Admins jumping in with their HR style escalation process which is wholly ineffective and biased towards the staff - FTE or volunteers regardless)

At least you acknowledged your mistake, but next time PM me directly rather than trying to call me out on a thread (that goes for you as well Pter - kudos for looking up my previous nick, but not so much for failing to check your colleagues blocked profile first)

Ken.

Don't flatter yourself. I seen the other persons post on thread and replied to that. It was a few minutes later before I seen your post here.

_Kaiser_

Nosnon wrote: »

Don't flatter yourself. I seen the other persons post on thread and replied to that. It was a few minutes later before I seen your post here.

More immature nonsense. At least have the decency to admit your mistake.

Ken.

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

More immature nonsense. At least have the decency to admit your mistake.

I've apologised to the person who deserves my utmost apology. I'm hoping he/she can see the funny side and move on.

Baggly

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

And that attitude is exactly why the Moderation standards and selection process on this site is in SERIOUS need of review and overhaul.

I covered this on another thread which was similarly ignored while ye all defended each other, but I for one am tired of this juvenile, insulting double-standard from those who we as normal posters are meant to take seriously as Mods

If you want to change yer names, step down or use a "regular" profile. It's hard enough keeping track of the revolving door of Mods without some guy thinking he's funny and then going on to sanction posters for often questionable reasons

(cue the Admins jumping in with their HR style escalation process which is wholly ineffective and biased towards the staff - FTE or volunteers regardless)

At least you acknowledged your mistake, but next time PM me directly rather than trying to call me out on a thread (that goes for you as well Pter - kudos for looking up my previous nick, but not so much for failing to check your colleagues blocked profile first)

Well firstly let me say i will and can only speak for myself in the below.

Secondly, thank you for bringing this discussion here rather that on the thread. I genuinely appreciate the chance to discuss this with you and not derail the thread (not a dig, im being earnest).

Thirdly, yep i made a mistake. I admitted it. I wasnt aware non-public profiles was a thing, so i took a shortcut on that one. Wont be making that mistake again.

I can see you are in the middle of another discussion, so if you want to continue discussing what you indicated on the 'where are you' thread, let me know here or by pm! Thanks.

_Kaiser_

Nosnon wrote: »

I've apologised to the person who deserves my utmost apology. I'm hoping he/she can see the funny side and move on.

I see that and at least you've done that much in fairness.

However, maybe you and ALL of your AH mod colleagues should have a chat in your private forum about the actions over the last 24 hours and what can be learned from it.

AH is a difficult place to mod I agree, but it's not helped by some of the actions and attitudes of the staff (again I include volunteer Modes and FTEs in this as there's no difference in this context). I've no clue of ages, backgrounds or whether these are considered in the selection process, but I find the quality to be hugely variable (and I don't think I'm alone in this) which only exacerbates the problems.

If any of the Admins/FTE staff wish to discuss further, PM me.

_Kaiser_

Pter wrote: »

Well firstly let me say i will and can only speak for myself in the below.

Secondly, thank you for bringing this discussion here rather that on the thread. I genuinely appreciate the chance to discuss this with you and not derail the thread (not a dig, im being earnest).

Thirdly, yep i made a mistake. I admitted it. I wasnt aware non-public profiles was a thing, so i took a shortcut on that one. Wont be making that mistake again.

I can see you are in the middle of another discussion, so if you want to continue discussing what you indicated on the 'where are you' thread, let me know here or by pm! Thanks.

Appreciate your response (genuinely) and your willingness to discuss further.

Feel free to jump in on any of the responses to Nosnon - threads like this move faster than a longer reply can keep up with.

gifted

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

I see that and at least you've done that much in fairness.

However, maybe you and ALL of your AH mod colleagues should have a chat in your private forum about the actions over the last 24 hours and what can be learned from it.

AH is a difficult place to mod I agree, but it's not helped by some of the actions and attitudes of the staff (again I include volunteer Modes and FTEs in this as there's no difference in this context). I've no clue of ages, backgrounds or whether these are considered in the selection process, but I find the quality to be hugely variable (and I don't think I'm alone in this) which only exacerbates the problems.

If any of the Admins/FTE staff wish to discuss further, PM me.

The mods in the where am I thread had an awful 24 hours from last night....really poor decisions...left a little bit of a source taste in the mouth because of their actions

Baggly

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Appreciate your response (genuinely) and your willingness to discuss further.

Feel free to jump in on any of the responses to Nosnon - threads like this move faster than a longer reply can keep up with.

I'm not circling the wagons here......is there anything outstanding?

You don't like name changes.......not sure i can do anything there. I changed my name last month but changed it back within a day. But that's just me. Other people like changing there name. AFAIK there is no other motivation behind it AND everyone can change their name if they want...i don't think mods should be excluded from that.

Nosnon has come back to you on what happened today with Auto and, from what i can gather, has PM'd auto too. Nothing i can add there.

I also don't understand the benefit of knowing the mod you are dealing with.....mod decision is a mod decision, whomever is giving it. Each mod will have a different approach, and you have to accept whatever mod decision is giving. This isn't me angling for how i want people to behave....this is how i've behaved since i joined boards.

smurfjed

Considering what happened in that thread, is there a reason why the mods don't go back and delete the messages that caused the outrage in the first place?

Esel

Normal users have to subscribe to get a name change, mods have the facility automatically. It's easy, and maybe tempting, to abuse the facility when it's free.

Baggly

Esel wrote: »

Normal users have to subscribe to get a name change, mods have the facility automatically. It's easy, and maybe tempting, to abuse the facility when it's free.

That is true, but my point still stands. If someone wants to change their name, they can. As much as they want. It is very different to re-regging, which was something name changing was equated to earlier, iirc.

_Kaiser_

Pter wrote: »

I'm not circling the wagons here......is there anything outstanding?

You don't like name changes.......not sure i can do anything there. I changed my name last month but changed it back within a day. But that's just me. Other people like changing there name. AFAIK there is no other motivation behind it AND everyone can change their name if they want...i don't think mods should be excluded from that.

Nosnon has come back to you on what happened today with Auto and, from what i can gather, has PM'd auto too. Nothing i can add there.

I also don't understand the benefit of knowing the mod you are dealing with.....mod decision is a mod decision, whomever is giving it. Each mod will have a different approach, and you have to accept whatever mod decision is giving. This isn't me angling for how i want people to behave....this is how i've behaved since i joined boards.

Consistency is the key to good moderation - just as there are a set series of rules for posters in a forum charter, so too should there be a similar mod charter with what is/isn't acceptable.

It's just not good enough when the rules vary depending on which Mod is online at the time.

My point regarding name changes fits with that same consistency angle, but also where posters are encouraged to use Mods as an escalation point. Again, it's good to know who you're dealing with - especially given the variation

Baggly

I understand the point you are making, but even with a very rigid set of rules (which i dont agree would work, especially in a forum like AH), each mod will still have an interpretation of those rules.

With regards to the mods as an escalation point.....surely this leads to users picking and choosing which mod they escalate to. I think it swings both ways....no?

Esel

Pter wrote: »

That is true, but my point still stands. If someone a mod wants to change their name, they can. As much as they want. It is very different to re-regging, which was something name changing was equated to earlier, iirc.

FYP there, as it seemed like you were including regular users in 'someone'.

Baggly

Esel wrote: »

FYP there, as it seemed like you were including regular users in 'someone'.

I was. Regular users can. Yes they have to sub, but they can. I did it myself years ago.

qo2cj1dsne8y4k

smurfjed wrote: »

Considering what happened in that thread, is there a reason why the mods don't go back and delete the messages that caused the outrage in the first place?

I’d second this. Deal with the issues that have cropped up in the lead up.

Esel

Pter wrote: »

I was. Regular users can. Yes they have to sub, but they can. I did it myself years ago.

Honestly, as a regular user, how often would you change your username at €5 a pop?

Baggly

Well to my memory i have changed my name 5 times. Twice was as a mod, once to change to an (admittedly) bad new username about 30 days ago, and the other was to change back to Pter about 29 day ago.

I paid my sub for the other 3.

Ken.

Esel wrote: »

Honestly, as a regular user, how often would you change your username at €5 a pop?

Its €5 for a month and you can change it daily. All name changes take place in the early hours when its quite for I think its server issues.

But as long as you don't pick a name already taken or use a swear word(probably a few other rules) you can change your name between 28 and 31 times.

No one would but the option is there.

_Kaiser_

Pter wrote: »

I understand the point you are making, but even with a very rigid set of rules (which i dont agree would work, especially in a forum like AH), each mod will still have an interpretation of those rules.

With regards to the mods as an escalation point.....surely this leads to users picking and choosing which mod they escalate to. I think it swings both ways....no?

True enough, but it has to start with a standard and consistent approach from the Mods that is appropriate, fair and transparent to the users. Once you have that, it takes care of the "pick and choose" aspect as the answers will be the same.

We don't need draconian rules to achieve this - this is a discussion forum and the goal should be to keep a thread open unless it has to be closed for legal reasons, re-reg trolling, or as a last resort.

The general principle of "don't be a dick" should hold and be guided by what are general common sense principles (and obvious baiting or other nonsense should be sanctioned accordingly) and the rules of the charter. Deal with the problem posters, don't restrict an otherwise valid discussion.

But Mods need to realise and appreciate that they have a position of responsibility and accountability that needs to be borne in mind whenever they take action or indeed post on a forum they also Mod. They aren't like other users and double-standards should not apply. Think before ye post or take action.

Baggly

Id like to continue discussing guys but i really have to log off for RL reasons! Ill pop back in when i can.

Mr. CooL ICE

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

Consistency is the key to good moderation - just as there are a set series of rules for posters in a forum charter, so too should there be a similar mod charter with what is/isn't acceptable.

It's just not good enough when the rules vary depending on which Mod is online at the time.

My point regarding name changes fits with that same consistency angle, but also where posters are encouraged to use Mods as an escalation point. Again, it's good to know who you're dealing with - especially given the variation

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

True enough, but it has to start with a standard and consistent approach from the Mods that is appropriate, fair and transparent to the users. Once you have that, it takes care of the "pick and choose" aspect as the answers will be the same.

We don't need draconian rules to achieve this - this is a discussion forum and the goal should be to keep a thread open unless it has to be closed for legal reasons, re-reg trolling, or as a last resort.

The general principle of "don't be a dick" should hold and be guided by what are general common sense principles (and obvious baiting or other nonsense should be sanctioned accordingly) and the rules of the charter. Deal with the problem posters, don't restrict an otherwise valid discussion.

But Mods need to realise and appreciate that they have a position of responsibility and accountability that needs to be borne in mind whenever they take action or indeed post on a forum they also Mod. They aren't like other users and double-standards should not apply. Think before ye post or take action.

Firstly, it has been said to you repeatedly; we are unpaid volunteers. We are not the professional smiley customer service representatives with pressed uniforms and brass nametags you seem to take us for. We do this in our spare time. We were once regular users who decided to offer up said spare time to give back to a community we have taken from. We do this while sipping tea at our desks the end of our lunch breaks. We do this on the couch with the laptop while the other half is watching stricly come dancing. Fcukit, I've banned reregs with my pants down around my ankles sitting on the jacks. Glamorous it ain't.

We have a charter that we follow. And yes, we always 'think before we post'. But I challenge you to write up a charter that covers absolutely every type of scenario that could ever arise in After Hours. It's impossible. Mod discretion is always going to be a part of moderation in AH. You're just going to have to accept that.

Unless boards.ie hires professional, full-time moderators that work together in a room and discuss every decision made person to person, then the moderation in After Hours will never be the extremely high standard that you seem to wish it to be.

_Kaiser_

Mark Rippetoe wrote: »

Firstly, it has been said to you repeatedly; we are unpaid volunteers. We are not the professional smiley customer service representatives with pressed uniforms and brass nametags you seem to take us for. We do this in our spare time. We were once regular users who decided to offer up said spare time to give back to a community we have taken from. We do this while sipping tea at our desks the end of our lunch breaks. We do this on the couch with the laptop while the other half is watching stricly come dancing. Fcukit, I've banned reregs with my pants down around my ankles sitting on the jacks. Glamorous it ain't.

We have a charter that we follow. And yes, we always 'think before we post'. But I challenge you to write up a charter that covers absolutely every type of scenario that could ever arise in After Hours. It's impossible. Mod discretion is always going to be a part of moderation in AH. You're just going to have to accept that.

Unless boards.ie hires professional, full-time moderators that work together in a room and discuss every decision made person to person, then the moderation in After Hours will never be the extremely high standard that you seem to wish it to be.

If you really don't see anything wrong with the attitudes you've expressed above then there's no point discussing it with you.

It's IRRELEVANT in this context whether you're paid staff or not. The role comes with (or SHOULD come with) a level of maturity, ownership and responsibility to the users and indeed site (and the perception of same - it's well known that Moderation is seen as a negative here) that transcends any sort of "I'm not getting paid so you can't hold me accountable" cop-out.

This is where my point around age profile, backgrounds and so on comes into play regarding the Mod selection process. It's obviously not enough to just pick out posters the Mods like or who have a high post count and low infraction count.

Ye have a position of responsibility and authority and you need to take that seriously

the_pen_turner

i have no problem with a mod changing their name but it should be anounced in some way . maybe be even PMed to users.
its unfair on users
we all read through with only a rough clance at the user who posted it. we recognise our 'favorite' or very common users.
irs unfair that the rule enforecers are changing so often , how can you keep track of it. sudenly there is a 'new' mod and you dont know who or what kind of mod they are.

some kind of labeling system should be in place so that you can easily see a mod and catch your eye if your flicking through. it is very easy to miss a mod warning

pleas advice

I don't know what happened in that thread last night, (seems to be a chat/flirt thread?) but on the whole I'd have to say the mods do a good job in what is a fast moving forum. I don't care so much about name changes either, plenty of mods come and go, shouldn't make any difference who's behind the username. (don't know how visible mod accounts are on the responsive or touch sites, or mod posts/ warnings, but thats something for 'Site Development')

Steve

Mark Rippetoe wrote: »

We do this while sipping tea at our desks the end of our lunch breaks. We do this on the couch with the laptop while the other half is watching stricly come dancing. Fcukit, I've banned reregs with my pants down around my ankles sitting on the jacks. Glamorous it ain't.

Lolled my socks off at that, thank you.

we shall fight on the beaches, we shall fight on the landing grounds, we shall fight in the fields and in the streets, we shall fight on the jacks; we shall never surrender

/back on topic.

Yes it can be confusing when there are mod name changes, however, as long as the rules are consistently applied then where is the problem?

If mods had anon accounts would it change things? Only thing it would change would be the ability to criticise a particular mod for individual actions.