Kildare farmer objects to €8bn Intel investment...

Brian?

Boggles wrote: »

I know, at least that would be some sort of excuse.

Excuse for what exactly? I don't begrudge the man a thing.

No, would love to.

Link them up if you can please.

I have them in a whatsapp message. Will see if I can attach later.

Plumbthedepths

Brian? wrote:

My only point is that his current objection is out of spite.

Unless he has confided in you, you don't know what his motivation is tbh.

Jupiter Mulligan

Brian? wrote: »

My only point is that his current objection is out of spite.

Or paranoia.

Brian?

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Unless he has confided in you, you don't know what his motivation is tbh.

Fair enough. It looks like spite to me though.

elperello

Brian? wrote: »

Yes. I know. I understand why he didn't sell. It's entirely up to him if he sells. I'm glad he won his fight against the CPO. I think it's bizarre some of the replies I'm getting.

My only point is that his current objection is out of spite.

It's a moot point whether you can exercise spite against a multi-national corporation. Spite implies a degree of personal malice or malevolence. We have no evidence that TR is that sort of person, indeed he seems to be the opposite.

But when a man's back is to to the wall.....

jimmycrackcorm

Boggles wrote: »

Were you exempt from the tax rises and lack of investment in services too?

How much worse would be the investment in services without the likes of the contribution that Intel makes to the economy?

Boggles

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

How much worse would be the investment in services without the likes of the contribution that Intel makes to the economy?

I don't see how that is relevant to the discussion we were having.

But like I have said previously, Intel are a fantastic company and have been great for Kildare and Ireland, but also vice versa. They acted the cúnt in this instance though and they need to be called out on it.

Ha Long Bay

Brian? wrote: »

Excuse for what exactly? I don't begrudge the man a thing.



I have them in a whatsapp message. Will see if I can attach later.

Here it is.

https://www.kildarenow.com/gallery/news/414911/farmer-objecting-again-to-intel-s-proposed-plant-4-times-the-size-of-whitewater-shopping-centre.html

zuxa gif iwo

...he has better handwriting than me,

Boggles

I've seen far worse.

Seth Brundle

Short update...

Intel Ireland has requested ABP to invoke section 138 of the Planning and Development Act where the board can dismiss appeals if it finds that it is vexatious, frivolous or without substance or foundation.

A decision is due on the Intel case in October.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/intel-requests-dismissal-of-vexatious-appeal-by-farmer-to-its-leixlip-expansion-1.3985237

Portsalon

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Short update...

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/commercial-property/intel-requests-dismissal-of-vexatious-appeal-by-farmer-to-its-leixlip-expansion-1.3985237

Good for Intel - it looks as they they've finally had enough of the needy, attention-seeking Reid acting the maggot.

Hopefully ABP will accept their submission, although it would take a degree of guts that it seldom displays. I suspect they'll opt to hold a full hearing. Then, of course, when Reid's nonsensical appeal is dismissed, he'll be off to the High Court. The "best small country in the world to do business in" my hole! :mad:

end of the road

Portsalon wrote: »

Good for Intel - it looks as they they've finally had enough of the needy, attention-seeking Reid acting the maggot.

Hopefully ABP will accept their submission, although it would take a degree of guts that it seldom displays. I suspect they'll opt to hold a full hearing. Then, of course, when Reid's nonsensical appeal is dismissed, he'll be off to the High Court. The "best small country in the world to do business in" my hole!

reid is neither needy, attention seeking, or acting the maggot.
ABP have guts, hence they won't simply roll over and allow foreign companies do what they like, just because they are multinationals and poring investment into the country. that is absolutely how things should be. quite rightly, intel will not get special treatment.

HopsAndJumps

end of the road wrote: »

reid is neither needy, attention seeking, or acting the maggot.
ABP have guts, hence they won't simply roll over and allow foreign companies do what they like, just because they are multinationals and poring investment into the country. that is absolutely how things should be. quite rightly, intel will not get special treatment.

If there is zero substance or grounds to an objection, then why should it delay a decision on planning and put investment in jeopardy?

end of the road

end of the road wrote: »

just because they are multinationals and poring investment into the country.

Damn right, **** them we dont need them. :rolleyes:

Sunny Disposition

The Lonely Battle of Thomas Reid reflected extremely badly on the IDA, looked very like corrupt practice. Have they addressed it at all since?

Sunny Disposition

end of the road wrote: »

reid is neither needy, attention seeking, or acting the maggot.
ABP have guts, hence they won't simply roll over and allow foreign companies do what they like, just because they are multinationals and poring investment into the country. that is absolutely how things should be. quite rightly, intel will not get special treatment.

Reid is clearly a very principled man, could not be bought at any price. Strikes me as a guy who won't be intimidated by anyone either.

Portsalon

HopsAndJumps wrote: »

If there is zero substance or grounds to an objection, then why should it delay a decision on planning and put investment in jeopardy?

Probably because for ABP to act in such a decisive and sensible manner would really upset the bleeding-hearted marshmallow brigade. Not to mention the human detritus that infests the opposition backbenches like maggots in the decomposing corpse of a long-dead cat.

Kermit.de.frog

Perhaps the individuals supporting this man's appeal here want the investment to go to Israel instead?

Because that is where it will be going.

Oh but wait all those poor Palestinians...

Seth Brundle

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Perhaps the individuals supporting this man's appeal here want the investment to go to Israel instead?

Because that is where it will be going.

Oh but wait all those poor Palestinians...

Just because we want a transparent planning process does not mean that we don't want to see developments so no need for the sarky remarks!
Reid lives next door to the plant. He is absolutely entitled to submit an appeal.
If there is merit to his appeal then ABP will see it. If not then the appeal will fail. Why do you have a problem with this process?
Should a large development have an absolute right to go ahead regardless of what people think?

Kermit.de.frog

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Why do you have a problem with this process?

I'm concerned he'll go to the courts and we'll end up with another Apple fiasco only this time much more damaging.

The objections he has submitted are absurd and blatant time wasting.

Don't kid yourself that there is any logic other than vexatiousness here.

Laois_Man

Why are Intel so fixated on that site. There's plenty of room right behind them which as I understand it, is property that does not belong to Reid - or is he now objecting to development work that doesn't even involve the acquisition of his land?

Riskymove

Laois_Man wrote: »

or is he now objecting to development work that doesn't even involve the acquisition of his land?

yes and he has been previously as set out in the article

this is not an application for his land

Intel cannot apply for planning on land owned by someone else

Brian?

Laois_Man wrote: »

Why are Intel so fixated on that site. There's plenty of room right behind them which as I understand it, is property that does not belong to Reid - or is he now objecting to development work that doesn't even involve the acquisition of his land?

He's objecting to work that has nothing to do with his land.

Riskymove

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Reid lives next door to the plant. He is absolutely entitled to submit an appeal.

I agree that people should be free to appeal

but at the same time if someone appeals every time there is an application in a location using the same objections which are not accepted every time then there should be a limit before the system can dismiss such appeals pretty quickly

ArnoldJRimmer

I am on his side with the original objection which directly impacted his land. Intel had no right to try to strong arm him

However, his behaviour since has been tiresome. While everyone should have the right to lodge a coherent objection to any planned construction, he is just causing unnecessary delays. This isn't 'sticking it to the man,' its just him being petty and childish for the sake of it

maudgonner

He's not the only objector. Peter Sweetman has also lodged an objection.


Whatever about Reid's entitlement to object (I think he is acting on his principals, and was very badly treated in the past), Sweetman has a track record of objecting to major infrastuctural projects all over the country, including the Amazon data centre and the Galway bypass. He was instrumental in taking the Galway bypass case to the courts in Europe.


He's also available for hire as an environmental consultant, and has been employed on projects such as the Galway harbour expansion, to advise on how best to secure planning permission for the project.
https://connachttribune.ie/environmentalist-sweetman-hired-galway-harbour-expansion/
Funny, that.

Brian?

ArnoldJRimmer wrote: »

I am on his side with the original objection which directly impacted his land. Intel had no right to try to strong arm him

However, his behaviour since has been tiresome. While everyone should have the right to lodge a coherent objection to any planned construction, he is just causing unnecessary delays. This isn't 'sticking it to the man,' its just him being petty and childish for the sake of it

Intel never tried to strong arm him. They offered him money and he refused. Then the IDA tried to illegally CPO his land.

I agree his current objection is pure spite.

Sunny Disposition

Sweetman is a crank IMO, is also objecting to an utterly sensible development in Doonbeg. Have a lot of sympathy for Reid and think the behavior of the IDA and Intel is v poor.
People have a right to go through the planning process and have their objections heard and that is as it should be. Given the terrible planning in many Irish towns and the flooding seen in many places as a result, you’d think more people would understand the need for process.

Brian?

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Sweetman is a crank IMO, is also objecting to an utterly sensible development in Doonbeg. Have a lot of sympathy for Reid and think the behavior of the IDA and Intel is v poor.
People have a right to go through the planning process and have their objections heard and that is as it should be. Given the terrible planning in many Irish towns and the flooding seen in many places as a result, you’d think more people would understand the need for process.

I have nothing against the proper planning restrictions. But what exactly did Intel do wrong? They offered him money for his land and he said no. Then the IDA stepped in and acted the maggot, hardly Intel's fault.

end of the road

HopsAndJumps wrote: »

If there is zero substance or grounds to an objection, then why should it delay a decision on planning and put investment in jeopardy?

because it is correct that it is looked at and heard to see if it has or hasn't substance and grounds.
it's about protecting the public.

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

Damn right, **** them we dont need them.

not what was said as you know. even then, we don't need them so much that they must be exempt from the law of the land. they must be subject to the same processes and rules as everyone else.

Sunny Disposition wrote: »

Reid is clearly a very principled man, could not be bought at any price. Strikes me as a guy who won't be intimidated by anyone either.

exactly.

ArnoldJRimmer

I don't see how taking the p!ss out of the planning process is in any way about protecting the public. The rules, regulations and avenues to raise an objection are there for a good reason, the objection to the original attempts to purchase his land for instance. This is not a principled stand any more, its toys being thrown out of the pram

josip

Brian? wrote: »

I have nothing against the proper planning restrictions. But what exactly did Intel do wrong? They offered him money for his land and he said no. Then the IDA stepped in and acted the maggot, hardly Intel's fault.

I can imagine the phone call.

Eamon: "We've offered him a very reasonable sum Martin, but he's completely unreasonable. This could impact our future investment and millions of jobs if it can't be resolved".
Martin: "Leave it with me Eamon. I'll see what I can do."

Sunny Disposition

josip wrote: »

I can imagine the phone call.

Eamon: "We've offered him a very reasonable sum Martin, but he's completely unreasonable. This could impact our future investment and millions of jobs if it can't be resolved".
Martin: "Leave it with me Eamon. I'll see what I can do."

This would be my reading of it.

JC01

Laois_Man wrote: »

Why are Intel so fixated on that site. There's plenty of room right behind them which as I understand it, is property that does not belong to Reid - or is he now objecting to development work that doesn't even involve the acquisition of his land?

He is now objecting to development that doesn’t involve the acquisition of his land.

Intel gave up on buying his land for way above market value ages ago.

Seth Brundle

JC01 wrote: »

He is now objecting to development that doesn’t involve the acquisition of his land.

He is opposing a development adjacent to his property.
He is fully entitled to do this (as everyone in the country) and he never claimed that he was objecting because of the previous attempted land grab.
He submitted his reasons for objection. Now it is up to ABP to decide if his objection has any grounds.

JC01 wrote: »

Intel gave up on buying his land for way above market value ages ago.

He is not interested in money. Anyone who knows anything about him knows this. So why do people continue with the suggestion that his appeal has anything to do with money?

JC01

Seth Brundle wrote: »

He is opposing a development adjacent to his property.
He is fully entitled to do this (as everyone in the country) and he never claimed that he was objecting because of the previous attempted land grab.
He submitted his reasons for objection. Now it is up to ABP to decide if his objection has any grounds.

He is not interested in money. Anyone who knows anything about him knows this. So why do people continue with the suggestion that his appeal has anything to do with money?

Stop putting words in my mouth. Never suggested it had anything to do with money I was simply stating facts.

Portsalon

ABP has denied Gollum an oral hearing - I predict a hunger strike.

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/news/courts/farmer-thomas-reid-denied-request-for-oral-hearing-into-4bn-intel-plan-38495505.html

Heavy Beast

Portsalon wrote: »

ABP has denied Gollum an oral hearing - I predict a hunger strike.

https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/news/courts/farmer-thomas-reid-denied-request-for-oral-hearing-into-4bn-intel-plan-38495505.html

Some head on that lad. Would he not get to a barber. Hahahhahahah alright

20Wheel

Plenty of empty fields out there.
Not so much major multi-billion FDI investments.

Gael23

Heavy Beast wrote: »

Some head on that lad. Would he not get to a barber. Hahahhahahah alright

That would cost money

tara73

Brian? wrote: »

Intel never tried to strong arm him. They offered him money and he refused. Then the IDA tried to illegally CPO his land.

I agree his current objection is pure spite.

How do you know what happened between Intel and this man before everything went public and him going to court? where you with him from day one in all this?

there could have been a lot of hassle, mental game playing, blackmailing and even worse going on nobody knows about just this man.

It's very easy to sit on your keyboard being the know it all in such cases and judge. This man had the guts to go against this multinational and follow through, I don't think many people would have mentally endured this.

I think he's playing their own game now, poor Intel..

Call me Al

tara73 wrote: »

......

I think he's playing their own game now, poor Intel..

And the 4,000+ people who are working there. Don't forget them.

Brian?

tara73 wrote: »

How do you know what happened between Intel and this man before everything went public and him going to court? where you with him from day one in all this?

I was in Collinstown industrial estate, Leixlip.

there could have been a lot of hassle, mental game playing, blackmailing and even worse going on nobody knows about just this man.

There wasn’t. Reid would have said if there was. He’s accused intel off sorts of rubbish, why would he keep that secrets.

This isn’t some Hollywood girl of a little guy standing up to a big, bad corporation. This is the real world.

It's very easy to sit on your keyboard being the know it all in such cases and judge. This man had the guts to go against this multinational and follow through, I don't think many people would have mentally endured this.

I think he's playing their own game now, poor Intel..

Funny, he took the IDA to court and not intel.

tara73

Brian? wrote: »

I was in Collinstown industrial estate, Leixlip.



There wasn’t. Reid would have said if there was. He’s accused intel off sorts of rubbish, why would he keep that secrets.

This isn’t some Hollywood girl of a little guy standing up to a big, bad corporation. This is the real world.



Funny, he took the IDA to court and not intel.

ah, so you were in Collinstown industrial estate Leixlip. Very 'interesting'. And? Did you bug his house?

sorry, what a lot of strange, unrelated stuff to my remark, waste of time going into.

tara73

Call me Al wrote: »

And the 4,000+ people who are working there. Don't forget them.

Blaming him? What's with Intel and IDA and who else was involved for acting in corrupt manners?

Call me Al

tara73 wrote: »

Blaming him? What's with Intel and IDA and who else was involved for acting in corrupt manners?

I was simply reminding you that intel employs 4000+ people. People who gave tk put bread on the table and who support the local economies for miles around.
And I never once mentioned "blaming" or "corrupt manners" so you can move on with that assertion.
This farmer is legally fully within his rights to object, and, as I have stated many many times here, I'm glad he won his high court appeal against the IDA.
But right now he's objecting to something that isn't interfering with his land or house in any way, and is jeopardising the livelihoods of '000s of people.
So don't forget them when you're voicing your support for Mr Reid and his farm.

Brian?

tara73 wrote: »

ah, so you were in Collinstown industrial estate Leixlip. Very 'interesting'. And? Did you bug his house?

sorry, what a lot of strange, unrelated stuff to my remark, waste of time going into.

There was no mental game playing or hassle from intel. That clear enough for you?

Portsalon

tara73 wrote: »

It's very easy to sit on your keyboard being the know it all in such cases and judge.

Indeed it is! Happily, you yourself wouldn't dream of doing anything so stupid, would you?

Seth Brundle

Call me Al wrote: »

I was simply reminding you that intel employs 4000+ people. People who gave tk put bread on the table and who support the local economies for miles around.

What about them?
Are you trying to imply that they might lose their jobs (which is complete nonsense)

Call me Al wrote: »

But right now he's objecting to something that isn't interfering with his land or house in any way, and is jeopardising the livelihoods of '000s of people.

1. He believes there is a potential issue and is using his legal right to ensure this isn't the case.
2. Whose livleihoods exactly are being jeopardised?