Kildare farmer objects to €8bn Intel investment...

Call me Al

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118947735#Comment_118947735

I was curious and questioning as to why you felt the need to quote me and explain, at some length, what happened in case number 1 when I agreed with you that he deserved to win his CPO case. Maybe because I didn't agree with your opinion that he's a hero? Because I really don't think he is a hero.

That doesn't equate to being annoyed or triggered, although maybe it does in your head.

And surely then, since justice was seen to be done first time around, then you will agree that justice has been seen to be done this time too, when he has been allowed use the full extent of his constitutional rights in his case? The fact that he was ruled against doesn't mean that justice hasn't been served.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118947937#Comment_118947937

He is a hero for taking his CPO case.

For the other issue, he is as entitled as anyone else to object to any development he wants. Same as you or I should be.

If I was forced to go through what he had to go through. Including the financial risk he had to take when those trying to steamroll him had access to limitless pots of (other people's - not their own) money, then I'd reckon I'd probably be taking every opportunity to make their lives a little more difficult afterwards.

CreadanLady

The CPO case was one thing, and he won that fair and square. But to be fair, this current case did not affect his land. He was going after the IDA/Intel here as more or less as a vendetta to inflict more hassle and pain on Intel for the hassle they caused him.

To be honest, I think the more that can be extracted from the likes on Intel the better. Even legal representation for them, is usually local or Irish law or consultancy firms so that is more money flowing into regional economy. Intel do not give 2 sh!ts about ireland or irish people. They are a corporate behemoth here for their own convenience. We owe it to Ireland and Irish people to milk the intel cow for all it is worth while keeping it just sweet enough to stay in our field.

Feisar

If it were me and they tried to CPO land I'd be objecting to them changing lightbulbs. Feck em, try to do me like that and you've made an ememy for life.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118948113#Comment_118948113

Except Intel didn’t initiate the CPO of his lands. They made him a generous offer he refused. They let it go. Then the IDA tried to CPO his land.

So his beef is with the IDA. That beef is over.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118947817#Comment_118947817

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118947798#Comment_118947798

Sometimes a wrong cuts so deep that the response goes beyond rationality.

Those who tried to put him off his land fail to recognise this.

Thomas Reid wasn't bothering anyone when they went after him.

They are responsible for what followed.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118947817#Comment_118947817

Your ad hominem nonsense has been noted.

Seth Brundle

TR made many appeals against developments on the Intel site, many of these appeals went in his favour. That is completely the fault of Intel and their planning team who should have made sure that all of their i's were dotted and their t's were crossed. Reid might not be a hero (nor was he ever looking to be) but he has shown himself to be quite astute - that a single person living in a house without electricity in his spare time can find obvious holes in planning applications compiled by well paid teams should be concerning to Intel senior management.

tom1ie

I’m curious, who is going to pay court costs for this case?

mcsean2163

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/109606258#Comment_109606258

Only for those that have it, which is now a very small proportion of the population. Almost impossible to get if only a worker and not already a landowner.

mcsean2163

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/109606954#Comment_109606954

Look, there's no need to be outrageous. It's only city dwellers that will starve/ emigrate if intel/ multinationals leave and the excrement hits the fan with Russia.

You can't expect farmers to care about anyone but themselves....

mcsean2163

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118948610#Comment_118948610

It's easier to be destructive than constructive.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118948550#Comment_118948550

Who’s the “they” you are talking about though? He was “wronged” by the IDA and he’s going after Intel

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118948610#Comment_118948610

What went in his favour? Every redevelopment they’ve planned has gone ahead.

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118948898#Comment_118948898

You have already answered the question correctly.

Of course it was the IDA who tried to take his land.

What were they going to do with it?

If the IDA left him alone the entire debacle wouldn't have happened.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118949023#Comment_118949023

Ok so the IDA we’re going to take his land, but he’s taking “revenge” on Intel. How does that make any sense at all?

elperello

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118949207#Comment_118949207

Ok so we both know what the land was wanted for.

To most people it doesn't make any sense what Thomas Read is doing but then he isn't most people.

The IDA tried to shake down the wrong guy and they bear responsibility for the entire debacle.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118948926#Comment_118948926

Every application that they made did not go in their favour however which is considerably different.

How could a single person working by candlelight manage to outsmart highly paid consultants? The only reason any developments went ahead was because they followed the correct procedures. They did not follow the correct procedures initially all the time - is that hard for you to understand?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118949207#Comment_118949207

The IDA scenario was just one case. Reid appealed many of Intel's subsequent planning applications and was found to be correct in most cases.

CreadanLady

When an outsider comes in to Ireland and tries to wrestle land out from under the Irish against their will, it isn't going to go down well.

Nationally this is our history, having spend 800 years under the jackboot of foreign usurpers , naturally we are going to resist any attempt at the same craic again on a smaller scale with the outsiders being dressed up as friendly multinationals and the Ida. With their environmental shenanigans and trickery they have shown their true colours.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118948926#Comment_118948926

That's not entirely true

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118947205#Comment_118947205

This old thread back to life.. 😲

Hard to say what it means longer-term. Intel Leixlip is not going away anytime soon but there in no doubt that the planning fight Intel had on their hands here is a major reason why the big investment of an entirely new fab site went to Germany.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118949723#Comment_118949723

Ok, which developments on the site did his objections stop?

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118949481#Comment_118949481

I understand exactly what happened. No need to get snarky. Intel had to make minor adjustments to their plans and perform extra environmental assessments.

In the end the development went ahead in spite of further vexatious objections from Reid. He didn’t “outsmart” anyone, he isn’t some sort of righteous crusader. He objected to every development on the Intel site before and after the CPO debacle. He believes that Intel is poisoning the Rye river, with a mountain of evidence to the contrary, and he’s objecting purely out of selfishness.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118949488#Comment_118949488

Name them so. What developments did he stop?

He raised minor objections which were dealt with by Intel. Which is his right, but he won nothing.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118949803#Comment_118949803

I really don’t think the “planning fight” had much to do with it at all.

There were a number of bigger factors. The 2 biggest ones being skilled labour and guaranteed power. One of these new fans needs huge amounts of both. Intel are currently struggling to hire enough people for 1 new fab, they’re smart enough to know they can’t staff a 2nd one in Ireland.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118948574#Comment_118948574

I'd have been far more impressed if you had 'noted' my suggestion that you up your game. But I completely understand that continuing to feed at the bottom is the easier option.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118949803#Comment_118949803

The "old thread" is back to life because the case that caused it to be opened over three years ago, has now reached the end of the road. (Unless, of course, Doofus decides to bring it to Europe, in which case it still has a very long way to run.)

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118950020#Comment_118950020

Maybe, maybe not. These things are never in isolation. But back in 2018 before they started building the latest fab I worked at the Leixlip site and one of the topics of dining hall talk was how the ongoing planning issues was a handicap in the context of internal corporate politics.

tom1ie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118948625#Comment_118948625

Anyone know the answer to this?

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118949998#Comment_118949998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118949723#Comment_118949723

You stated that nothing went in his favour but that's not entirely true. His objective was to object, delay and frustrate which he did a very good job of.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118953889#Comment_118953889

What did he delay? Who did he frustrate?

In my opinion the answers are: nothing and no one. The new fab is being built on the schedule Intel decided. He achieved nothing, beyond over turning the initial CPO.

if he had actually delayed the new fab it would be going somewhere else and not being built in Ireland. Which would be an absolutely atrocious result for Ireland.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118952926#Comment_118952926

I left Intel in 2018 after 18 years, so I can state pretty confidently that most of the canteen talk is pure nonsense. I’ve never experienced a place like Intel Ireland for rumour or conjecture. About 1 in 100 rumours are true.

The Intel fab in Germany was never going to Ireland. Ireland struggle to staff and supply stable power to the fabs they have. Added to that they couldn’t get enough construction staff or material to build another fab in Ireland. The specialists need to build a fab are available in Germany because of Global foundries in Dresden, Intel will also poach their staff for engineers and technicians. Same reason they’re building a fab near Cincinnati Ohio, plenty of labour available, TSMC are building in Arizona and competing for staff.

Somewhere, way below the actual practical reasons not to choose Ireland, perception may play a part, except that the head of the Fab/Sort Manufacturing group is Irish.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118954048#Comment_118954048

You admitted it yourself in post #826. Plans had to be changed.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118954122#Comment_118954122

You’re the one saying he won. Yet you can’t tell me anything he achieved. What did he stop or even slow down? Who did he frustrate or delay?

I want you to back these claims up. You’ve made them, try to actually back them up with something.

Ginger83

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118954144#Comment_118954144

Can you point out where I said he won?

I'm stating that TR succeeded in his objectives to delay and frustrate Intel during the planning process. Plans had to be changed and revised and resubmitted which were all part of the tactics.

Personally I couldn't give two hoots about one farmer in the arsehole of nowhere to me in Kildare or Intel either. I'm merely disagreeing with you saying nothing went in his favour.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118948698#Comment_118948698

Well someone sounds a bit bitter. If you want land, you can buy it. There are no restrictions on ownership and it is a free market. If you want it but are too poor to buy it, then you have to accept that Reid is not responsible for your life choices and work ethic (or lack thereof)

Call me Al

His objective since day one stretches far beyond just delaying and frustrating the company - obviously good from his perspective in and of themselves but ultimately it is still being built throughout his latest appeals so largely ineffective these past few years. He justifiedly blames them for the stress and difficulties he's experienced since initiating his 1st case, which are all well documented and undoubtedly do have evidence. He blames them for a litany of enviromental issues none of which have had any foundation of supports.

He wants the company gone, so from his perspective I'd expect that he sees this ruling as a loss.

Will he appeal to the EU though? Thats the real question for me and it remains to be seen, but I wouldn't put it past him. He, or someone around him, appears to have deep pockets.

CreadanLady

No. He does this all himself. He does not have a legal team. He is self educated on the laws and procedures around the issue of concern.

It figures, since by the looks of it, this is his main pursuit in life for the past few years and devotes most of his time to it. As others have said, his farm is to be honest, a shambles and barely functioning. I suspect he does just the bare minimum to be able to claim the grant payments. Another cute hurr move there

Call me Al

Going by the initial rambling handwritten letter he used as his first objection to Kildare CC he isn't preparing submissions and documents for court himself, and he certainly isn't representing himself in front of any judge so he has to have a legal team.

But yes he clearly spends much of his time doing his research as he doesn't seem to spend too much time in his day farming.

PommieBast

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118954087#Comment_118954087

In that case I wonder how Ireland even got into the running. Anyway getting a bit off-topic so will let this one lie.

Brian?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118955455#Comment_118955455

There are definitely some vested interests supporting him. He’s not writing these objections by candlelight as some suggest.