Kildare farmer objects to €8bn Intel investment...

SirGerryAdams

Seth Brundle wrote: »

You are making the mistake that he os holding out for money or something. He's not!
He may be eccentric but he's no fool and he is a farmer through and through who doesn't want to leave his land!

Did anyone here watch the film about him? He's clearly low IQ. He doesn't have electricity or anything.

He's just someone who doesn't get over the death of loved ones and holds onto everything to keep their memory alive. His house is full of papers from 1980.

He's the type of guy who even if he had 10m, he'd still be cooking beans in a shed with a gas canister.

Mad_maxx

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Have you considered that maybe he is happy with how he looks and lives?
Typical Irish begrudgery! :rolleyes:

Pity then he begrudges so many job opportunities to many people

Mad_maxx

Seth Brundle wrote: »

From talking to people around the area (as I live in the area), most are aware of him and agree with him!

That's a country thing, if your clan have been in the area for multiple generations, you can get away with anything

Seth Brundle

Mad_maxx wrote: »

Pity then he begrudges so many job opportunities to many people

He's not. He's protecting his livelihood which is his right.

Guy:Incognito

Seth Brundle wrote: »

He's not. He's protecting his livelihood which is his right.

Let's be honest, that's bull (pun intended) . His livelihood can be moved to another field very easily and without disruption. If anything, hed be better off because he'll probably make money on the sale.

ongarite

Old Perry wrote: »

The jobs will be made regardless of his land being cpo'd or not, as will the 8bn investment. it's all ready happening. they want his land as it suits the site logistically, in reality they don't necessarily need it and can and will make do somewhere else if needed.

Does anyone read the planning application or this thread?
His land isn’t being CPOd or used in any way.
The planning permission is for change of use of the existing Intel site.
He has objected to every single planning application by Intel for over 20 years, just like this one.

SirGerryAdams

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Let's be honest, that's bull (pun intended) . His livelihood can be moved to another field very easily and without disruption. If anything, hed be better off because he'll probably make money on the sale.

He does not care for money.

Literally he goes and buys reduced items from the local supermarket and doesn't have electricity etc.

Seth Brundle

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Let's be honest, that's bull (pun intended) . His livelihood can be moved to another field very easily and without disruption. If anything, hed be better off because he'll probably make money on the sale.

1. He is not interested in money.
2. It is his legal right to submit objections to his direct neighbours planning applications (as it is my right or yours).
3. Why should he move just to placate the development of a commercial entity? Our constitution gives property owners rights and he is protecting his as he sees fit.


Anyhow, this thread appears to be repeating itself - all of this was discussed if you read through the previosu pages.

Mickeroo

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

He does not care for money.

Literally he goes and buys reduced items from the local supermarket and doesn't have electricity etc.

That sounds like the opposite of not caring for money.

Guy:Incognito

Seth Brundle wrote: »

1. He is not interested in money.

I was replying to your post about his livelihood. A livelihood which wouldnt be affected. Certainly nothing moving to a nicer field.

Seth Brundle

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

I was replying to your post about his livelihood. A livelihood which wouldnt be affected. Certainly nothing moving to a nicer field.

I assumne that you're not a farmer and don't come from a farm.
It is not a simple matter of 1 field being the same as another field!

Dial Hard

Seth Brundle wrote: »

I assumne that you're not a farmer and don't come from a farm.
It is not a simple matter of 1 field being the same as another field!

Once again for the cheap seats, this development doesn't involve his land *at all*. He's objecting due to previous bad blood with Intel, nothing more.

Mad_maxx

Seth Brundle wrote: »

He's not. He's protecting his livelihood which is his right.

What Intel are offering would buy hundreds of acres in the North West and he could plant trees with tax free income

He could run around naked and howl at the moon amongst the forest

Mad_maxx

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

He does not care for money.

Literally he goes and buys reduced items from the local supermarket and doesn't have electricity etc.

He's a dingbat

sbsquarepants

Mad_maxx wrote: »

What Intel are offering would buy hundreds of acres in the North West and he could plant trees with tax free income

The point remains - he doesn't want to accept their offer, he probably doesn't want to accept any offer and that's entirely up to him.

If you wanted to buy something of mine and I didn't want to sell it - what do you think should happen?

Mad_maxx

sbsquarepants wrote: »

The point remains - he doesn't want to accept their offer, he probably doesn't want to accept any offer and that's entirely up to him.

If you wanted to buy something of mine and I didn't want to sell it - what do you think should happen?

Depends, if you were blocking metro North, I'd go Chinese pre 2008 Olympics on you

Plumbthedepths

Mad_maxx wrote:

Depends, if you were blocking metro North, I'd go Chinese pre 2008 Olympics on you

For the Metro that would be a CPO, for the public good. The IDA tried to CPO this man's land sometime back on behalf of Intel hence the badblood. He has a right to object whether he succeeds is a separate matter. Again it seems to be lost on some that not everyone can be bought or places a higher value on money than attachment to land.

Call me Al

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

For the Metro that would be a CPO, for the public good. The IDA tried to CPO this man's land sometime back on behalf of Intel hence the badblood. He has a right to object whether he succeeds is a separate matter. Again it seems to be lost on some that not everyone can be bought or places a higher value on money than attachment to land.

The way I see it, he was fully entitled to object to the CPO and the way it was handled. I would've been annoyed if he hadn't been successful in that case against the IDA as I felt that what they were doing was wrong.
And yes he's also entitled to object this time too, but vexatious objections are another thing entirely. That's what i consider this to be. And hate and spite is a large part of his motivation right now. This development doesn't encroach on his land. It's across a road from one of his fields on land Intel already own, and about 1km from his house.
I think its more likely in the future that Intel will expand southward towards the M4.

Mike9832

sbsquarepants wrote: »

The point remains - he doesn't want to accept their offer, he probably doesn't want to accept any offer and that's entirely up to him.

If you wanted to buy something of mine and I didn't want to sell it - what do you think should happen?

Any normal person would sell

In this situation a new bill should be introduced to stop the crazies holding up thousands of jobs for families

bop1977

The planning permission was granted and this fella didn’t proceed to object to an bord planela. Game over as far as planning is concerned.

elperello

Mike9832 wrote: »

Any normal person would sell

In this situation a new bill should be introduced to stop the crazies holding up thousands of jobs for families

Would you care to define normal?

Maybe you could give an executive summary of the kind of Bill you have in mind?

Mike9832

elperello wrote: »

Would you care to define normal?

Maybe you could give an executive summary of the kind of Bill you have in mind?

Have a partner

Have kids

Have a holiday

Enjoy life with millions in the bank

Not hang onto your great great gran daddies inheritance land

In the countries interest bill

Any field that is jeopardising €100mill+ of investment should be automatically on this bill

Plumbthedepths

Mike9832 wrote:

Not hang onto your great great gran daddies inheritance land

Constitution

Mike9832 wrote:

In the countries interest bill

Consitution, caveat public good not the benefit of private enterprise.

Mike9832 wrote:

Any field that is jeopardising €100mill+ of investment should be automatically on this bill

Consitution
Have a read.

elperello

Mike9832 wrote: »

Have a partner

Have kids

Have a holiday

Enjoy life with millions in the bank

Not hang onto your great great gran daddies inheritance land

In the countries interest bill

Any field that is jeopardising €100mill+ of investment should be automatically on this bill

I see where you are coming from but that is just your idea of normal. Thomas Reid is just being true to his idea of normal ie. being left alone.

Your Bill is interesting but probably unconstitutional. It would most likely mean that private property could be taken because somebody rich wanted it.

We had a system like that in medieval times - no going back.

sbsquarepants

Mike9832 wrote: »

Any normal person would sell

In this situation a new bill should be introduced to stop the crazies holding up thousands of jobs for families

I'd sell, no doubt about it, but that would be my choice, I'd take the money over the field every day of the week. He on the other hand, prefers the field. It's his choice, and so it should be.

We're at full employment - he's not holding up any thousands of jobs!

Intel have more resources than god, they can build somewhere else - it's just handier / cheaper for them to build on this mans land.

They are a foreign corporate entity - they have no right to any irish citizens property (like the state would for metro north for example)

In short - they can go fúck themselves!

stoneill

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I'd sell, no doubt about it, but that would be my choice, I'd take the money over the field every day of the week. He on the other hand, prefers the field. It's his choice, and so it should be.

We're at full employment - he's not holding up any thousands of jobs!

Intel have more resources than god, they can build somewhere else - it's just handier / cheaper for them to build on this mans land.

They are a foreign corporate entity - they have no right to any irish citizens property (like the state would for metro north for example)

In short - they can go fúck themselves!

It's not his land. It across the road from his land.

Call me Al

sbsquarepants wrote: »

I'd sell, no doubt about it, but that would be my choice, I'd take the money over the field every day of the week. He on the other hand, prefers the field. It's his choice, and so it should be.

We're at full employment - he's not holding up any thousands of jobs!

Intel have more resources than god, they can build somewhere else - it's just handier / cheaper for them to build on this mans land.

They are a foreign corporate entity - they have no right to any irish citizens property (like the state would for metro north for example)

In short - they can go fúck themselves!

Building on his land is old news. He won his case and they lost, and they have moved on.

They are now wanting to build somewhere else just as you suggested... their own land. Across a road from a field of his and the best part of a km from his farmhouse,if not more.
And fwiw I agree with this man's right to not have his land CPO'd for any private corporation, and I'm glad he won his legal case.

ToddyDoody

Farmer says 'Intel need to see the bigger picture'

sbsquarepants

stoneill wrote: »

It's not his land. It across the road from his land.

Oh right, my mistake - I thought the new location was also on his land. That's a different kettle of fish so!

Jupiter Mulligan

Doofus strikes again.

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/farmer-appeals-intel-planning-permission-1.3928451

Jupiter Mulligan

Squatter wrote: »

Round One goes to Intel.

No doubt Farmer Tom will be soon heading up to ABP on his turbo-charged 1957 Massey-Ferguson!


https://www.independent.ie/business/farming/news/courts/council-gives-green-light-to-4bn-intel-plan-in-spite-of-farmers-objection-38129885.html

Good call!

Farmers like him are just glorified social welfare recipients. Useless to society and funded by the taxpayer to hang on to "sentimental" land that is worth a fortune. Funded by the taxes of the young people working at Intel who will be out of a job because of him.

No other sector of society gets paid to hold on to a valuable asset.

A hateful horrible miserable old man. No sympathy whatsoever.

Seth Brundle

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Farmers like him are just glorified social welfare recipients. Useless to society and funded by the taxpayer to hang on to "sentimental" land that is worth a fortune. Funded by the taxes of the young people working at Intel who will be out of a job because of him.

No other sector of society gets paid to hold on to a valuable asset.

A hateful horrible miserable old man. No sympathy whatsoever.

How is he a glorified welfare recipient because he has a view on a particular development?
How Is hwbfu set by the taxpayer in such a way that affects you.
How will anyone be out of a job because of him?
In reality, the issue is you, an opinionated who waffles and blames anyone who holds a different view to themselves.

fly_agaric

Jupiter Mulligan wrote: »

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/technology/farmer-appeals-intel-planning-permission-1.3928451

Ah sure maybe Brexit will have happened by time the wise ones at ABP get around to it and project will be canned or diverted to Israel or Asia or whatever.
We are all so rich we don't need the jobs/development any more!

Kermit.de.frog

He is the only objector.

Everything has to grind to a halt in the planning process due to one crank serial objector.

We need reform of the planning system.

end of the road

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

He is the only objector.

Everything has to grind to a halt in the planning process due to one crank serial objector.

We need reform of the planning system.

on the basis of cases like this? no we don't.
the system is working as it should here. if his objections are valid they will be upheld. if not, they won't.

Kermit.de.frog

end of the road wrote: »

on the basis of cases like this? no we don't.
the system is working as it should here. if his objections are valid they will be upheld. if not, they won't.

Of course his objection will not stand up but this is NOT the point.

The point is it gets dragged in to a time consuming sink hole no matter how ridiculous the objection is.

If I write a stupid letter to An Bord Pleanala and pay the fee with ZERO basis for complaint it's the same thing.

Reform is needed to stop serial objectors and to make them liable after a certain treshold.

Ha Long Bay

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Of course his objection will not stand up but this is NOT the point.

The point is it gets dragged in to a time consuming sink hole no matter how ridiculous the objection is.

If I write a stupid letter to An Bord Pleanala and pay the fee with ZERO basis for complaint it's the same thing.

Reform is needed to stop serial objectors and to make them liable after a certain treshold.

Its amazing how much damage a 2 page hand written letter and the €20 fee can do.



From https://www.agriland.ie/farming-news/kildare-farmer-appeals-e3-53-billion-development-to-an-bord-pleanala/

"The appeals board confirmed today, Monday, June 17, that Kildare farmer Thomas Reid has lodged the only third party appeal concerning the new application by the US micro-chip giant for an extended and revised manufacturing fabrication facility, known as a “Fab”.

Reid has long been ‘a thorn in the side’ of the US multinational in the planning arena and this is now the seventh Intel application he has brought before An Bord Pleanála since 2012.

Intel has itself lodged a first party appeal against one condition attached to the planning permission granted by Kildare County Council last month.

Decisions on the appeals are expected in October of this year.

The 10 year permission to Intel will provide a windfall of €9.7 million in development contributions for Kildare County Council – if work on the project proceeds.
The planning permission follows three years on after Intel secured planning permission for the first phase of the ‘fab’ facility, valued at $4 billion (€3.6 million).

In total, the two planning permissions represent an $8 billion (€7 billion) investment which will employ 6,000 construction workers at its peak, and 1,600 full time jobs on completion.

The projects represent the largest single private investment in the history of the State on one project if given the go-ahead by Intel globally."

tupenny

I applaud the man. Area has been manipulated enough

branie2

People will try to stand in the way of progress

I may not agree with him but he seems to be perfectly within his rights to appeal.

Kermit.de.frog

tupenny wrote: »

I applaud the man. Area has been manipulated enough

How has the area been manipulated?

Seth Brundle

Seth Brundle wrote: »

How is he a glorified welfare recipient because he has a view on a particular development?
How Is hwbfu set by the taxpayer in such a way that affects you.
How will anyone be out of a job because of him?
In reality, the issue is you, an opinionated who waffles and blames anyone who holds a different view to themselves.

If Intel don't build the new fab then LOTS of people will be out of a job. He'll still get his farmers dole. He'll still pay no property tax on his land worth a fortune. The rest of us have to earn our money and if we are fortunate to have a huge mortgage on a modest house, pay tax on it.

But sure fcuk them. Of course he's entitled to object - but we should throw out these obviously ridiculous objections immediately. A big rubber stamp with REJECTED on it should do the job.

john4321

john4321 wrote: »

In total, the two planning permissions represent an $8 billion (€7 billion) investment which will employ 6,000 construction workers at its peak, and 1,600 full time jobs on completion.

The projects represent the largest single private investment in the history of the State on one project if given the go-ahead by Intel globally."

But sure no one will lose a job. FFS.

Just reading the Times of Israel this morning and they're discussing Israel's battle for Intel investment, with the article noting:

When asked about investment in the plant, Intel CEO Bob Swan, who is on a visit to Israel, said on Sunday that the firm had made a decision to increase its production capacity in Israel, the US and Ireland to meet growing demand.... Intel submitted a business plan to Israel’s regulators in January, the text said, “and since then has not issued an update on the new projects.” The statement added that “every investment is carried out in stages, and there may always be changes, according to business, economic and other needs.”

Calcalist said that Intel has decided to proceed first with its Ireland plant, and at a slower pace with the Israeli one.

'Intel reportedly delaying massive new chip plant in Israel' (18 June 2019)

The superrich are only going to get richer in this competition between sovereign states.

JustAThought

Someone has to stand up for the rights of future generations to clean water and for the protection of the environment. Fair dues to him for having it addressed.

As for what they forced that man to endure just to keep his home and way of life it was absolutely horrific and if it were any other country such as Korea or China, Amnesty would be out in force protesting about abuse of power and facist means. No such chance that they support a hardworking honest Irish man against their own friends in government.


First They Came

First they came for the Communists,
- but I was not a communist so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists,
- but I was neither, so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Jews,
- but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out.
And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me.

This poem is ascribed to the German pastor Martin Niemoeller who was arrested and imprisoned in the death camp Dachau.

JustAThought

JustAThought wrote: »

Someone has to stand up for the rights of future generations to clean water and for the protecrion of the environment. Fair dues to him for having it addressed.

Have you seen the state of his farm?

amadangomor

Deleted User wrote: »

Just reading the Times of Israel this morning and they're discussing Israel's battle for Intel investment, with the article noting:



'Intel reportedly delaying massive new chip plant in Israel' (18 June 2019)

The superrich are only going to get richer in this competition between sovereign states.

Cop on will you, I work there and I am far from superrich.

Auguste Comte

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Was listening to something on the radio yesterday about how in other countries the good of the nation and people trumps the worry of a few individuals when it comes to things like this.

Basically most countries just tell the people this is happening and you can do nothing about it.

It’s for the greater good.

These numpties are always complaining about something.

Nimbyisn at its finest and also a huge factor in the housing situation.

Is this some sort of communism you are advocating where the state should control everything and ignore the individual?

end of the road

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Of course his objection will not stand up but this is NOT the point.

The point is it gets dragged in to a time consuming sink hole no matter how ridiculous the objection is.

If I write a stupid letter to An Bord Pleanala and pay the fee with ZERO basis for complaint it's the same thing.

Reform is needed to stop serial objectors and to make them liable after a certain treshold.

the only issue here is the length of time the process takes. that may be solved with more staff, iff the agency is short staffed.

Deleted User wrote: »

If Intel don't build the new fab then LOTS of people will be out of a job. He'll still get his farmers dole. He'll still pay no property tax on his land worth a fortune. The rest of us have to earn our money and if we are fortunate to have a huge mortgage on a modest house, pay tax on it.

But sure fcuk them. Of course he's entitled to object - but we should throw out these obviously ridiculous objections immediately. A big rubber stamp with REJECTED on it should do the job.

objections that are invalid are thrown out.