Hot take: Multiculturalism is good

GinAndBitter

sk8erboii wrote: »

I actually pity you if those are the kinds of thoughts going through your head.
Not trying to be demeaning but I cant imagine a high functioning member of society to have that at the forefront of their minds.

If you are disadvantaged im very sorry. I hope you find a way out.

Yeah that was fairly demeaning alright, don't forget it's the people not at the forefront of society that benefit the least from multiculturism and mass importation of low skilled workers, however in the business I'm in, the last couple of years the clients are now starting to ask for Irish workers , they do this in a roundabout sort of way for the most part, like asking for lads that have English as their first language.

sk8erboii

Auntie Semite wrote: »

I have a house, job, wife, kids, successful in my career, my god the arrogance of youth...

where do you find time to rereg and make 150 posts the past month?

It'd be a handful for sure, with all your family and career

kowloon

GinAndBitter wrote: »

Im not offended, I just thought your comment was a bit much that's all, I do have a teenage sister but you weren't to know that. I'm not of those people you are describing.

Fair enough, the post was deliberately hyperbolic. I think people dramatically exaggerate the threat posed by immigrants and just need to sit back and relax. The problem is information flow, we only hear the bad news and forget it's not an accurate picture.

Auntie Semite

sk8erboii wrote: »

where do you find time to rereg and make 150 posts the past month?

It'd be a handful for sure, with all your family and career

Until a week or so ago I have never posted on boards in my life. I realise there are a lot of re regs but I am not one of them.
In fact I'd love to know how to do it as I wish to change my username. Is it against the rules to ask that?

Franz Von Peppercorn

The op has basically confused multi culturalism in one country with openness to trade and/or new ideas. Which isn’t the same thing at all. Japan is now open to western ideas, as well as its own, but it’s not multicultural.

Nor is a multi cultural state the same as a multi ethnic or pluralistic state. The US never described itself as multi cultural until revent decades, though it was always a nation of immigrants. It instead promoted the idea of a melting pot, e pluribus unum. Now it’s e pluribus multis.

Obviously Europe needs immigrants, it also has a right as a (trigger alert) great and ancient civilisation to choose who those immigrants are and to demand that the immigrants integrate into this great and ancient civilisation.

Instead, and this isn’t the fault of the immigrants, the demand is often to replace the existing with the new, to take down the statues that have the audacity to have been white in a country that was 100% white, to “decolonise” English literature (absurdly more common in England) , to scorn or remove from sight paintings or photos of white men — including soldiers, to demand an end to white supremacism in countries that have been white for all history. Whatever that means.

That is I think what understandably gets people's back up.

sk8erboii

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

The op has basically confused multi culturalism in one country with openness to trade and/or new ideas. Which isn’t the same thing at all. Japan is now open to western ideas, as well as its own, but it’s not multicultural.

Nor is a multi cultural state the same as a multi ethnic or pluralistic state. The US never described itself as multi cultural until revent decades, though it was always a nation of immigrants. It instead promoted the idea of a melting pot, e pluribus unum. Now it’s e pluribus multis.

Obviously Europe needs immigrants, it also has a right as a (trigger alert) great and ancient civilisation to choose who those immigrants are and to demand that the immigrants integrate into this great and ancient civilisation.

Instead, and this isn’t the fault of the immigrants, the demand is often to replace the existing with the new, to take down the statues that have the audacity to have been white in a country that was 100% white, to “decolonise” English literature (absurdly more common in England) , to scorn or remove from sight paintings or photos of white men — including soldiers, to demand an end to white supremacism in countries that have been white for all history. Whatever that means.

That is I think what understandably gets people's back up.

I didn't confuse anything mate. You seem well read but misinformed. Good points but alas, multiculturalism is a broad term and good or bad aspects fall under it.

As a sum, it has been a positive force for humanity

gozunda

sk8erboii wrote: »

Reactionary types beware: Multiculturalism is defined as the spread of people and ideas.
I know you're already thinking about white genocide, catholic oppression and that liberal arts girl that rejected you for being rough around the edges. But hear me out, because im about to tell you why multiculturalism is good.
The one reason: It's the default state of humanity.You ever wonder why those forgotten tribes like in the sentinel islands is rare and in many ways primitive? Because they are not like us. The rest of the world has managed to collectively cooperate. One guy comes up with a great idea and someone else from another country copies it and improves it. Thats multiculturalism.
I made this thread as a response to the obvious xenophobic hatemongering in other posts.
Like some scumbag throwing acid to a child's face, somehow implicates every immigrant and they should be put under a proverbial spotlight. Its tenuous logic at any point of view.
Right now I want you to imagine if Ireland became your insular and backwards utopia. Forget about the Wakanda syndrome (That if a nation somehow closes its borders and focuses on itself it will become advanced) and look at case studies. The empire Japan is the poster boy for the self-serving xenophobic nation state. And it was 200 years behind until it stopped the blockade then it entered modernity.
If Ireland had no multiculturalism (which includes the Catholic church) it would literally be a depressing backwater even moreso than it was for hundreds of years. Everything you ever owned, knew and f*cked is influenced by foreign people.That doesn't mean genocide, asmuch as self-victimizing citizens in the top 10 quality of life in the world would have you think. It simply means acknowledging that Ireland and multiculturalism are deeply intertwined, even back to the building of 'native' structures (which were built by people that came from spain, scandinavia and france).
Ireland's golden days when it was all 'native' never existed. In fact, those days were among the most depressing and oppressive in history that the population never recovered. Blighted by a food that came from Peru.

OP why do defensive on the subject? If multiculturalism is indeed so accepted - why do we need to tell people it is - shouldn't it be self evident?

As to the definition you gave - I believe multiculturalism has a much wider meaning in this discussion than which you give it credit tbh.

Now I know I'm being lazy but here is Wikipedia for a basic primer to start.

The term multiculturalism has a range of meanings within the contexts of sociology, of political philosophy, and of colloquial use. In sociology and in everyday usage, it is a synonym for "ethnic pluralism", with the two terms often used interchangeably, for example, a cultural pluralism in which various ethnic groups collaborate and enter into a dialogue with one another without having to sacrifice their particular identities.

It can describe a mixed ethnic community area where multiple cultural traditions exist (such as New York City) or a single country within which they do (such as Switzerland, Belgium or Russia). Groups associated with an aboriginal or autochthonous ethnic group and foreigner ethnic groups are often the focus.

In reference to sociology, multiculturalism is the end-state of either a natural or artificial process (for example: legally-controlled immigration) and occurs on either a large national scale or on a smaller scale within a nation's communities.

On a smaller scale this can occur artificially when a jurisdiction is established or expanded by amalgamating areas with two or more different cultures (e.g. French Canada and English Canada).

On a large scale, it can occur as a result of either legal or illegal migration to and from different jurisdictions around the world (for example, Anglo-Saxon settlement of Britain by Angles, Saxons and Jutes in the 5th century or the colonization of the Americas by Europeans, Africans and Asians since the 16th century).

Multiculturalism as a political philosophy involves ideologies and policies which vary widely.

Now explain why if multiculturalism is such a natural state of affairs as you have claimed, does Europe and the US remain the largest immigration destinations worldwide. Surely we should be supporting the idea of diverse immigration as a means to global multiculturalism to all nations and not just western ones? What happens when the majority of the worlds countries do not support such ideas?

Sephiroth_dude

MOD

FIvesevens banned


Any more racism or personal abuse and I'll lock the thread for good.

sk8erboii

gozunda wrote: »

OP why do defensive on the subject? If multiculturalism is indeed so wonderful - why do we need to tell people it is - shouldn't it be self evident?

As to the definition you gave - I believe multiculturalism has a much wider meaning in this discussion than which you give it credit tbh.

Now I know I'm being lazy but here is Wikipedia for a basic primer to start.



Now explain why if multiculturalism is such a natural state of affairs as you have claimed, does Europe and the US remain the largest immigration destinations worldwide. Surely we should be supporting the idea of diverse immigration as a means to global multiculturalism to all nations and not just western ones? What happens when the majority of the worlds countries do not support such ideas?

The vast majority of people accept multiculturalism as a net positive lad.

And the nations that are still on flux are the ones that were affected by European imperialism, which entailed exploitation of people and resources.

Its not that hard to understand. Vietnam for example, was under the throes of French hegemony up until the 70s hence why they are wary of white landowners. In the same way Ireland is still collectively staunchly anti-British hegemony. Contrast say with the Philippines who are very much open to foreigners due to America fighting for their liberty against Japan during WW2.

Sephiroth_dude

MOD

Kowloon don't post in this thread again

sabat

sk8erboii wrote: »

Its not that hard to understand. Vietnam for example, was under the throes of French hegemony up until the 70s hence why they are wary of white landowners...

... Contrast say with the Philippines who are very much open to foreigners due to America fighting for their liberty against Japan during WW2.

The Vietnamese have defeated all-comers for millennia - Indians, Chinese, Khmer, French, Americans et al. Like Afghanistan, it's one of those places and peoples you just don't invade.

The Philippines was American soil until 1946.

4068ac1elhodqr

Be careful not to mix the concept of 'Multiculturalism' as it occurs presently in Europe, with true (and benefical) 'Diversity'.
They are not the same concept in practice.

gozunda

sk8erboii wrote: »

The vast majority of people accept multiculturalism as a net positive lad.

That is a tenuous statement at best lad. In regard to that claim -
Who do? Where? Please provide accurate figures to show that is so. It remains many many countries worldwide do not promote multiculturalism.


So you've gone from "It's the default state of humanity. to now providing mass exceptions such as ...

And the nations that are still on flux are the ones that were affected by European imperialism, which entailed exploitation of people and resources.

What about those countries affected by Chinese or Arab imperialism for example which historically also entailed exploitation of people and resources- are you not accounting for those - if so why not?

Its not that hard to understand. Vietnam for example, was under the throes of French hegemony up until the 70s hence why they are wary of white landowners. In the same way Ireland is still collectively staunchly anti-British hegemony. Contrast say with the Philippines who are very much open to foreigners due to America fighting for their liberty against Japan during WW2.

Nope none of that makes any sense with regard to the promotion or acceptance of multiculturalism as a 'good' by nation states. Ther are many political regimes worldwide that do not accept the ideas of multiculturalism. And if as you say those countries which were colonised by 'whites' - why should such countries be not supporting multiculturism of other races? Indeed regarding Ireland - one of the largest immigrant groups by nationality in Ireland are British - how does that stand against our supposed "anti-British hegemony"? The
Philippines as a country have less than one percent non nationals living there according to their own census figures.

To be honest none of what you have proposed makes sense globally. Multiculturism which only works or is promoted in one direction cannot be defined as 'multiculturism' . And that is the story as it stands.

DS86DS

No, scrap that. Multiculturalism is not just good, multiculturalism is brilliant.

Of course putting things into perspective..... multiculturalism is brilliant if you are Mr. CEO. For you have a constant stream of newcomers, most of whom having immigrated are willing to work for a pittance....just enough to allow them to stay in their shared accommodation with their 10 other non-national housemates paying cash to Mr. Crooked cash-under-the-table-tax-dodging landlord.

Brilliant for big business and landlords. Not so great for average folk.......not for John and Mary looking for themselves a secure job and an affordable house in order to raise a family.

archer22

sabat wrote: »

The Vietnamese have defeated all-comers for millennia - Indians, Chinese, Khmer, French, Americans et al. Like Afghanistan, it's one of those places and peoples you just don't invade.

The Philippines was American soil until 1946.

Indeed it was..the Americans invaded in 1898 and destroyed the Philippines new republic which was based on the French model.
America then carried out an horrific genocide in the Philippines which cost the lives of up to 2 million Filipino's out of a population of 7 million at that time.

The reason the Philippines is ruled by corrupt oligarchs today stems from the American invasion when America installed those corrupt families into power to run the country for them.

It really gets on my tits when I hear people on about how 'good' America has been in the Philippines :mad:
The reality is the absolute opposite!

Your Face

This isn't the breakfast roll thread.

topper75

It can have certain advantages perhaps.

You have to be careful and filter though. Many types seeking to come and live in Ireland funnily enough don't want much of the multi at all. They want to live in little ghettos of their own types. Their own food. Their own dress. Their own language. They are as likely to destroy the whole multicultural concept as any Irish native person with concerns. Many might even look down on the Irish and their ways.

I fear skaterboi wants no filter. Maybe they could confirm.

DEFTLEFTHAND

Tbh the longer I live and look at 'melting pot' nations like the USA and the UK I'm beginning to have my doubts (that frightens me in a way). Humans like every animal seem to be tribal by nature.

Lefty Bicek

sk8erboii wrote: »

Mate thats literally what multiculturalism means. I know you desperately want it be defined as mass migration (which is part of the MC gestalt) but thats not all it is.

I didn't say 'mass migration is all it is'. But you saying

thats [sic] not all it is

means you recognise that mass migration is part of what it is.

So you've contradicted your very first sentence ie 'literally'. All you've done is literally interpreted one not-very-useful definition of a contested term/ideology/doctrine etc

Hitting the wishy-washy one-world note isn't going to achieve anything.

Your OP said

Multiculturalism is defined as the spread of people and ideas.

but it's just as superficially true to say that

History is defined as the spread of people and ideas

.

Since history and multiculturalism are not coterminous, at all, really you've defined nothing.

Lefty Bicek

sk8erboii wrote: »

Im sure its irrelevant while you type on an american laptop, on a website coded by an indian guy, while tucking into some chinese so you can get ready to work for a british company in the morning

A fine definition of global capitalism.

Though not of multiculturalism.

Lefty Bicek

nlrkjos wrote: »

Various cultures in a society can exist on an equal footing once all are respected, religion,color,language,food and art can co-exist.

That's not multiculturalism.

A multi-ethnic society is not necessarily multiculturalism at play.

Ted Johnson

If diversity is our strength then why are the vibrant, ethnic areas in Europan cities such utter ****holes?

ArchXStanton

Ted Johnson wrote: »

If diversity is our strength then why are the vibrant, ethnic areas in Europan cities such utter ****holes?

Because "diversity is our strength" is another useless catchphrase from the EU as they try water down national identity, they don't give a fiddlers as long as they get their superstate... With plenty of cheap labour

Ted Johnson

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Because "diversity is our strength" is another useless catchphrase from the EU as they try water down national identity, they don't give a fiddlers as long as they get their superstate... With plenty of cheap labour

Peter Sutherland wanted unlimited migration into Europe, yet lived in Kenningston.

Says it all.

ArchXStanton

Ted Johnson wrote: »

Peter Sutherland wanted unlimited migration into Europe, yet lived in Kenningston.

Says it all.

The EU should "do its best to undermine" the "homogeneity" of its member states - Sutherland

We can see this with the EU trying to enforce migrant quotas on its members... Thoroughly disgusting organisation

Yer Da sells Avon

I think multiculturalism is grand. I think most people are fairly ok with it, tbh. Away from the internet, most people are ok, full-stop. The internet seems to attract a lot of angry lads who are full of misery and don't see anything positive anywhere. Life's too short to obsess over stuff like this.

SEPT 23 1989

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

I think multiculturalism is grand. I think most people are fairly ok with it, tbh. Away from the internet, most people are ok, full-stop. The internet seems to attract a lot of angry lads who are full of misery and don't see anything positive anywhere. Life's too short to obsess over stuff like this.

It's fantastic if you are not fighting for houses school places and hospital beds

The ones who shout loudest for this have the money and will never have to deal with the fallout

Only pontificate to the ones at the coal face

Ted Johnson

NI is the quintessential multi cultural society where different cultures and faiths live beside each other in peace, harmony and mutual respect.

Mr. teddywinkles

Auntie Semite wrote: »

When you're 33 or 43 and realising you can't afford a mortgage, ever increasing rents, due to to an endless influx of people keeping property at a premium you might not like it.

When you're 33 or 43 and realise there is an endless supply of labor competing for your job and keeping wages suppressed you might not like it.

When you're 33 and realise you can't afford to have kids but you see all those 'minorities' around you with large families you might not like it.

When you're 33 or 43 and notice that you're one of the only white faces in your neighbourhood and that your neighbours don't seem to like you very much you might not like it.

When you're 33 or 43 and you notice that there is a significantly large proportion of the population that adheres to a very assertive, and aggressive religious belief and that they hold a serious amount of political power and change the laws to reflect that religious belief you might not like it so much.

When you're 33 or 43 and realise that your country is starting to resemble south Africa in terms of crime and violence you might not like it.

When you're 33 or 43 and realise that the new majority population have regressed to their own cultural practices and did not (as you thought they would) become Liberal like you then you might not like it.

When you're 33 or 43 and you notice that women's and lgbt rights have regressed completely because they do not reflect the majority opinion then you may not like it.

When you're 33 or 43 and notice that Pakistan is still majority Pakistani, Nigeria is still Majority Nigerian, China is still majority Chinese etc but Irish are a dwindling minority you might wake up and think.... Oh Sh1t

Think about the future

Yep couldn't put it any better myself.

Sand

sk8erboii wrote: »

The vast majority of people accept multiculturalism as a net positive lad.

You say that but no European politician dares hold a referendum on mass migration. Because as recently as 2017 55% of Europeans surveyed in 10 countries wanted a total ban on Muslim immigration.

Indigenous peoples can obviously have a far more negative view on the matter to the migrants who are arriving. Your talk of 'net positives' is obviously wrong, but its also deceptive. The costs of mass migration are borne by the indigenous people, with the benefits accruing to the migrants.

Mr. teddywinkles

ArchXStanton wrote: »

Because "diversity is our strength" is another useless catchphrase from the EU as they try water down national identity, they don't give a fiddlers as long as they get their superstate... With plenty of cheap labour

Don't forget lots more consumers because birth rates down across Europe. Doesn't matter what way it affects society. It's grand once we're selling our ****e to keep top dogs rich

GinAndBitter

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Don't forget lots more consumers because birth rates down across Europe. Doesn't matter what way it affects society. It's grand once we're selling our ****e to keep top dogs rich

Birth rates are up here as far as I know.

Tacklebox

I seriously don't give a toss about multiculturalism, race, populism, alt-right, left.. liberalism, Fach ism, loony left... Alcoholism, socialism...transgender ism

I S M

I self me

Im far too busy collecting sea weed and listening to the waves crashing against the shore, choking herrings, surfing and cleaning engines than to be worrying about society and all that bollix ology

What good does it do to be discussing all that sociology it rots the mind....

Lefty Bicek

Tacklebox wrote: »

I seriously don't give a toss about multiculturalism, race, populism, alt-right, left.. liberalism, Fach ism, loony left... Alcoholism, socialism...transgender ism

I S M

I self me

Im far too busy collecting sea weed and listening to the waves crashing against the shore, choking herrings, surfing and cleaning engines than to be worrying about society and all that bollix ology

What good does it do to be discussing all that sociology it rots the mind....

Yet here you are...

kildare lad

ye it worked out well in tyrellstown and balbriggan, id a uncle that lived in birmingham since the late 60's . We went over to visit him 15 years ago and to say it was a culture shock was an understatement. Mosques, women wearing bin liners, all the blokes looking like taliban, He was the only white person left on his road ,all the rest were muslim, He was just waiting to get his pension so he could move back to Ireland. He said it was a lovely area when he first got there but as more and more starting moving into the area , the natives starting moving out. Thats not muticulturalism , its an invasion

OneEightSeven

GinAndBitter wrote: »

Birth rates are up here as far as I know.

They're below replacement level and have actually reached their lower rate ever.

Dr_serious2

sk8erboii wrote: »

Reactionary types beware: Multiculturalism is defined as the spread of people and ideas.

I know you're already thinking about white genocide, catholic oppression and that liberal arts girl that rejected you for being rough around the edges. But hear me out, because im about to tell you why multiculturalism is good.

The one reason: It's the default state of humanity.

You ever wonder why those forgotten tribes like in the sentinel islands is rare and in many ways primitive? Because they are not like us. The rest of the world has managed to collectively cooperate. One guy comes up with a great idea and someone else from another country copies it and improves it. Thats multiculturalism.

I made this thread as a response to the obvious xenophobic hatemongering in other posts.

Like some scumbag throwing acid to a child's face, somehow implicates every immigrant and they should be put under a proverbial spotlight. Its tenuous logic at any point of view.

Right now I want you to imagine if Ireland became your insular and backwards utopia. Forget about the Wakanda syndrome (That if a nation somehow closes its borders and focuses on itself it will become advanced) and look at case studies. The empire Japan is the poster boy for the self-serving xenophobic nation state. And it was 200 years behind until it stopped the blockade then it entered modernity.

If Ireland had no multiculturalism (which includes the Catholic church) it would literally be a depressing backwater even moreso than it was for hundreds of years. Everything you ever owned, knew and f*cked is influenced by foreign people.

That doesn't mean genocide, asmuch as self-victimizing citizens in the top 10 quality of life in the world would have you think. It simply means acknowledging that Ireland and multiculturalism are deeply intertwined, even back to the building of 'native' structures (which were built by people that came from spain, scandinavia and france).

Ireland's golden days when it was all 'native' never existed. In fact, those days were among the most depressing and oppressive in history that the population never recovered. Blighted by a food that came from Peru.

At least you have stopped using Americanisms in every sentence like before. That's quite multicultural as well I suppose.

Norm Peterson

Multi culturalism would mean countries were distinct and different from each other and going to another country would be a somewhat unique experience.

What the opening post seems to want is homogenization which is a horrible thing that unfortunately will be difficult to stop.

if I want to experience East Asian culture I'll go to East Asia, if I want to experience Middle Eastern Culture I'll go to the middle east etc.etc.

A small amount of multiculturalism is OK, too much of it would be a terrible thing.

OneEightSeven

Yer Da sells Avon wrote: »

I think multiculturalism is grand.

Yes, Pakistani men grooming and raping underage girls is just fine an dandy.

I think most people are fairly ok with it, tbh. Away from the internet, most people are ok, full-stop. The internet seems to attract a lot of angry lads who are full of misery and don't see anything positive anywhere.

The Internet, you mean the place where people can freely express their thoughts and not have to worry about being vilified, fired or even violently assaulted just for stating the truth?

Life's too short to obsess over stuff like this.

Life is too short to worry about your daughters or working-class girls being groomed and raped by Muslims in your hometown?

"Ah, sure, my daughter is being plied with drugs and alcohol with the intent of grooming her for sexual proposes, but I'll be dead in a few decades so be grand like."

Dr_serious2

You will notice almost nobody ever says a thing about Polish people who live here in their thousands.

Why? Because they are hard working, decent, productive members of society.

There are other cultures that people complain about but maybe, just maybe, that is because there is a problem with these specific cultures regarding values which are somewhat incompatible with most Irish people.

Oddly, their views are often most incompatible with extreme leftists like the OP but that wont stop him cheerleading for them at every opportunity. To quote Football Factory, 'Scooby Doo is less confused than you.'

Yer Da sells Avon

OneEightSeven wrote: »

Yes, Pakistani men grooming and raping underage girls is just fine an dandy.



The Internet, you mean the place where people can freely express their thoughts and not have to worry about being vilified, fired or even violently assaulted just for stating the truth?



Life is too short to worry about your daughters or working-class girls being groomed and raped by Muslims in your hometown?

"Ah, sure, my daughter is being plied with drugs and alcohol with the intent of grooming her for sexual proposes, but I'll be dead in a few decades so be grand like."

Yeah, you definitely seem like a calm, happy and rational person.

Jmsg

Perhaps when alcohol is banned under sharia only then will the Irish lift their head up from under the sand and give a damn.

Franz Von Peppercorn

kildare lad wrote: »

ye it worked out well in tyrellstown and balbriggan, id a uncle that lived in birmingham since the late 60's . We went over to visit him 15 years ago and to say it was a culture shock was an understatement. Mosques, women wearing bin liners, all the blokes looking like taliban, He was the only white person left on his road ,all the rest were muslim, He was just waiting to get his pension so he could move back to Ireland. He said it was a lovely area when he first got there but as more and more starting moving into the area , the natives starting moving out. Thats not muticulturalism , its an invasion

Tyrellstown is plenty safe. Not sure what’s going on with that belief.

ArchXStanton

Norm Peterson wrote: »

Multi culturalism would mean countries were distinct and different from each other and going to another country would be a somewhat unique experience.

What the opening post seems to want is homogenization which is a horrible thing that unfortunately will be difficult to stop.

if I want to experience East Asian culture I'll go to East Asia, if I want to experience Middle Eastern Culture I'll go to the middle east etc.etc.

A small amount of multiculturalism is OK, too much of it would be a terrible thing.

I'm only back from Czech Republic, I got talking to a Czech fella at a bar over there and he asked me what way we were in Ireland with migrants, I told him it's increased an awful lot in the last few years and I don't think it's going to slow down. I then said to him when I go to the Czech Republic or any country for that matter, I want to see the people of that country, their language, history and customs, immerse myself in it and come away with a clear picture of the people and place. If I wanted a melting pot of different nationalities I'd go to Toronto or New York were they all stay in their own neighbourhoods... He was in full agreement

Franz Von Peppercorn

Jmsg wrote: »

Perhaps when alcohol is banned under sharia only then will the Irish lift their head up from under the sand and give a damn.

Not going to happen for centuries if ever. Most Muslim countries have alcohol for minorities.

However of course societies will charge. A lot of people assume that if you add culture B to culture A you get culture A again. That or they use the idea of multi culturalism to promote secularism in hospitals etc. Which isn’t the same thing.

What’s likely to happen is that parts of society will have different morals, customs and conventions (and maybe laws) to the rest of us. Happening already. In Britain (in Birmingham) Muslim parents are protesting LGBT inclusive education. As is their right. I wonder what the op thinks.

https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1103718078980997121

Odhinn

Jmsg wrote: »

Perhaps when alcohol is banned under sharia only then will the Irish lift their head up from under the sand and give a damn.

They're burying us in Sand now?

Wibbs

Sand wrote: »

You say that but no European politician dares hold a referendum on mass migration. Because as recently as 2017 55% of Europeans surveyed in 10 countries wanted a total ban on Muslim immigration.

Indigenous peoples can obviously have a far more negative view on the matter to the migrants who are arriving. Your talk of 'net positives' is obviously wrong, but its also deceptive. The costs of mass migration are borne by the indigenous people, with the benefits accruing to the migrants.

I'd agree with all of that Sand, save for the last sentence. I'm not so sure about the benefits to the migrant populations. This is usually left out of this debate on all sides. Now this most applies to those that stand out from the indigenous population, different skin tone, religion. The people that "pass" more easily for locals don't tend to suffer the same trajectory*.

The usual narrative is the first generation are fine, they try to build lives and families in their new home. The trouble comes with the second and subsequent generations. They're told they're French/Irish/British/whatever but they realise early on in life that they're not quite French/Irish/British/whatever. This naturally and quite understandably leads to a dissatisfaction and kickback against the country they find themselves in. The country that they belong to, but not quite. Look at the UK. The first bunch of folks from their former colonies that arrived in the 50's, faced a lot of suspicion all the way to outright racism, yet no riots, no gangs of dissatisfied youth etc. Fast forward to the 70's when their kids came of age and you had the Brixton and Toxteth riots and things have hardly improved since. When you see the current stabbing attacks stats they're almost exclusively "people of colour" as both the perps and victims of it, young Black men, as young men are the most likely to kick off this stuff as their anger if not channeled positively tends to get directed outward. So even with the migrant populations, especially those who stand out as different, I'm not seeing too many benefits on their side either S.

Multiculturalism is like fire, the right amount can warm your house, too much risks burning it down. How do you measure the point where it starts becoming a fire hazard? Not long after you have ghettoisation kicking off when people who naturally want to be around "their own" build up in specific areas.






*the outlier here are Asian folks. They are clearly "different" to White Europeans, but you rarely see their dissatisfied young men kicking off and ending up in the news. Indeed on average they tend to track higher in success than the indigenous population. Almost certainly down to a deep cultural influence.

One of the stupidest arguments I've ever had on boards was with the OP about this exact thing. He refuses to accept that historical natural flows are different to mass migration and the resulting problems which are now associated with the term.


Don't even bother arguing with someone who likens the Silk Road with what is happening in Europe now, simply because in his mind, they're the same word.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

I just cannot wait for us to be the same as everywhere else, how special that will be

Lefty Bicek

Wibbs wrote: »

*the outlier here are Asian folks. They are clearly "different" to White Europeans, but you rarely see their dissatisfied young men kicking off and ending up in the news. Indeed on average they tend to track higher in success than the indigenous population. Almost certainly down to a deep cultural influence.

Depends on what you mean here by 'Asian'.

I would say that eg these young Asians are kicking off, in a very organised and ideological way...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JzdRxmvUxA

I stand to be corrected, but I believe one of the dissatisfied young men in this clip came a cropper after a London terror attack. Good, if true.

To be honest, having lived around and experienced their sullen, frustrated, loud hysteria, they are truly a depressing representation of a type of 'Asian' youth.