Hot take: Multiculturalism is good

riffmongous

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

I just cannot wait for us to be the same as everywhere else, how special that will be

It's american driven capitalist consumerism that is bringing that about, not 'multiculturalism'.

Sweetemotion

It just baffles me, how anyone can look at what is happening in other European countries since Merkle opened the borders and think. Sure it's grand.

archer22

Sweetemotion wrote: »

It just baffles me, how anyone can look at what is happening in other European countries since Merkle opened the borders and think. Sure it's grand.

Its was Merkel's policies that were the decisive factor in getting the Brexit camp over the line.

Strange how she is the person who bears the greatest responsibility for this debacle, but yet it is a fact that never gets mentioned anywhere!

Wibbs

Lefty Bicek wrote: »

Depends on what you mean here by 'Asian'.

East Asians. Vietnamese, Chinese, Cambodian etc. "Asian" in the UK is an odd description particular to that country where it means everyone east of Saudi Arabia.

stefanovich

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

Not going to happen for centuries if ever. Most Muslim countries have alcohol for minorities.

However of course societies will charge. A lot of people assume that if you add culture B to culture A you get culture A again. That or they use the idea of multi culturalism to promote secularism in hospitals etc. Which isn’t the same thing.

What’s likely to happen is that parts of society will have different morals, customs and conventions (and maybe laws) to the rest of us. Happening already. In Britain (in Birmingham) Muslim parents are protesting LGBT inclusive education. As is their right. I wonder what the op thinks.

https://twitter.com/tomhfh/status/1103718078980997121

This is a cognitive dissonance grenade.

seamus

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Like it or not, Ireland will become a white minority eventually, as will many countries in western europe.

And over longer timescales the entire human race will likely be some form of tanned colour, with some minor variances here and there. Pure white or black people will be rare occurrences and will be highly desired as attractive.

But you're talking many generations. By the time Europe is no longer majority white, our great-great-great-great-grandkids will be long in their graves.

And it will happen not by immigration, but through simple intermarrying.

It's a complete Boogeyman for xenophobes.

Edenmoar

There seems to be a cohort of people in Ireland, or at least a cohort of Journal commenters, that are absolutely dying for some kind of Muslim inspired terrorist attack to happen in Ireland, so they can get the pitchforks ready and say I told you so. The world is changing and globalisation means all sorts are going to live in Ireland. We can't have our cake and eat it, if we want at a booming multinational based economy we'll need low skilled workers from all over the world. Deal with it, life is too short to get your knickers in a twist over these things.

Auntie Semite

Edenmoar wrote: »

There seems to be a cohort of people in Ireland, or at least a cohort of Journal commenters, that are absolutely dying for some kind of Muslim inspired terrorist attack to happen in Ireland, so they can get the pitchforks ready and say I told you so. The world is changing and globalisation means all sorts are going to live in Ireland. We can't have our cake and eat it, if we want at a booming multinational based economy we'll need low skilled workers from all over the world. Deal with it, life is too short to get your knickers in a twist over these things.

Some would say a 'Booming Multinational economy' means ever increasing rents, ever increasing house prices and ever increasing population density.
lower trust in society and communities, lower wages and a lower standard of living.

Auntie Semite

Interesting article on the (lack of) sustainability of Irelands current model.

https://t.co/2vsVOehA0w?amp=1

Quote
'FDI growth regime been made possible by inward migration and European integration, but given the unequal distribution of the economic benefits that this generates, it is unlikely to be politically, or electorally, sustainable'

Edenmoar

Auntie Semite wrote: »

Some would say a 'Booming Multinational economy' means ever increasing rents, ever increasing house prices and ever increasing population density.
lower trust in society and communities, lower wages and a lower standard of living.

That’s what happens in a country where tax cuts and welfare increases are all that matters to the electorate. We have a very dispersed population actually and that leads to a whole other discussion.

biko

sk8erboii wrote: »

Reactionary types beware: Multiculturalism is defined as the spread of people and ideas.

sk8erboii wrote: »

Mate thats literally what multiculturalism means.

Where did your hear that definition? It is incorrect.

Collins

Multiculturalism is a situation in which all the different cultural or racial groups in a society have equal rights and opportunities, and none is ignored or regarded as unimportant.

Merriam-Webster

: cultural pluralism or diversity (as within a society, an organization, or an educational institution) : a multicultural social state or a doctrine or policy that promotes or advocates such a state

It has nothing to do with spreading people and ideas. It just defines a society with different cultures, often religions.
Like Jews and Christians living in Syria, Saudi Arabia or Egypt.

topper75

Tacklebox wrote: »

I seriously don't give a toss about multiculturalism, race, populism, alt-right, left.. liberalism, Fach ism, loony left... Alcoholism, socialism...transgender ism

I S M

I self me

Im far too busy collecting sea weed and listening to the waves crashing against the shore, choking herrings, surfing and cleaning engines than to be worrying about society and all that bollix ology

What good does it do to be discussing all that sociology it rots the mind....

That is because you are normal person.

Most people are normal but they dragged into discussing these abstract topics and isms because it represents common ground, a lowest common denominator. And so they waste time here on the internet.

Though it would probably be a lot more real and relevant, I can't discuss herrings with you. They don't feature in my life much.

biko

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Saudi_Arabia

Then
The first mention of Jews in the areas of modern-day Saudi Arabia dates back, by some accounts, to the time of the First Temple.
Immigration to the Arabian Peninsula began in earnest in the 2nd century CE, and by the 6th and 7th centuries there was a considerable Jewish population in Hejaz, mostly in and around Medina

Now
There has been virtually no Jewish activity in Saudi Arabia since the beginning of the 21st century. Jewish (as well as Christian and other non-Muslim) religious services are prohibited from being held on Saudi Arabian soil



Where is your outcry, hipsters?

topper75

^^^^

Shall be along presently I imagine. All bothering some poor eurovision thread at the minute.

sk8erboii

biko wrote: »

Where did your hear that definition? It is incorrect.

Collins


Merriam-Webster


It has nothing to do with spreading people and ideas. It just defines a society with different cultures, often religions.
Like Jews and Christians living in Syria, Saudi Arabia or Egypt.

Incredibly misleading to use one instance of a merriam webster definition lad.

You know what you’re doing.

weldoninhio

Edenmoar wrote: »

There seems to be a cohort of people in Ireland, or at least a cohort of Journal commenters, that are absolutely dying for some kind of Muslim inspired terrorist attack to happen in Ireland, so they can get the pitchforks ready and say I told you so. The world is changing and globalisation means all sorts are going to live in Ireland. We can't have our cake and eat it, if we want at a booming multinational based economy we'll need low skilled workers from all over the world. Deal with it, life is too short to get your knickers in a twist over these things.

Yes, because the automisation of low skill jobs is never gonna happen. :rolleyes:

4068ac1elhodqr

Edenmoar wrote: »

... if we want at a booming multinational based economy we'll need low skilled workers from all over the world. Deal with it, life is too short to get your knickers in a twist over these things.

Pure nonsense. Many of these low-skilled will find themselves on the welfare scrapheap within the next decade. Who's gonna pay for their UBI then.

Edenmoar

Sienna Nervous Purse wrote: »

Pure nonsense. Many of these low-skilled will find themselves on the welfare scrapheap within the next decade. Who's gonna pay for their UBI then.

well where do we get our cleaners etc from in the meantime? I believe most people are inherently good anyway, the wasters in this country are Irish not foreign. Anyway where do people find the time to give a sh*t about where people are from? Life's too short amigos.

biko

sk8erboii wrote: »

Incredibly misleading to use one instance of a merriam webster definition lad. .

Hey, at least I lean on actual definitions

Maybe you quoted a source earlier in the thread that I missed? You use the word literally so must have some backup..

Wibbs

seamus wrote: »

And over longer timescales the entire human race will likely be some form of tanned colour, with some minor variances here and there. Pure white or black people will be rare occurrences and will be highly desired as attractive.

But you're talking many generations. By the time Europe is no longer majority white, our great-great-great-great-grandkids will be long in their graves.

And it will happen not by immigration, but through simple intermarrying.

It's a complete Boogeyman for xenophobes.

You regularly hear this simplistic nonsense of humanity becoming beige people trotted out. Worse, among some they seem to crave this. If diversity is to be championed why hope for it to fade away? Though as usual it's only "diversity" of non White people.

Worldwide, intermarriage between different populations is actually very low. Even in ex colonies with large groups of different faiths, ethnicities and "races" it's low. In the US among Whites it's under 10%, under 20% among Blacks. The vast majority of people in the world marry and have kids with those from a similar socioeconomic, religious and ethnic background.

Secondly, even if worldwide trends were towards that end it would take thousands of years, not centuries. Thousands of years where it's far more likely we'll be building new humans from scratch anyway. As a species we've been externalising our own evolution for at least half a million years and that process has sped up and we now are starting to have the tools to make such changes at a fundamental level and in a profound way.

Thirdly, if it were to come to pass and the majority of humanity were that homogenous, we'd be screwed as a species. Our success as a species is down to our rich diversity. We need the isolates, the different. If some horrible pathogen came along that was extremely virulent and deadly*, you would have a minority of people with the genetic diversity for resistance to it and humanity would survive. If we were all beige people it's far more likely we wouldn't.



*science would help us? It might, but if something like Bubonic Plague went rogue again today(and we're not sure why it went rogue before. It went rogue for the last time in the mid 19th century in Asia and killed tens of millions) our medical science might have the tools to fight it at first, but we would be swiftly overrun by the sheer practical scale of the problem and it could kill billions. And rapidly, as travel is a lot faster than it was during the Black Death. And back then in the days of the horse and walking it killed half the population of Europe in four years.

riffmongous

biko wrote: »

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_Jews_in_Saudi_Arabia

Then
The first mention of Jews in the areas of modern-day Saudi Arabia dates back, by some accounts, to the time of the First Temple.
Immigration to the Arabian Peninsula began in earnest in the 2nd century CE, and by the 6th and 7th centuries there was a considerable Jewish population in Hejaz, mostly in and around Medina

Now
There has been virtually no Jewish activity in Saudi Arabia since the beginning of the 21st century. Jewish (as well as Christian and other non-Muslim) religious services are prohibited from being held on Saudi Arabian soil



Where is your outcry, hipsters?

So does that mean that those against multiculturalism are supporters of the Saudi authorities?

snotboogie

Auntie Semite wrote: »

Interesting article on the (lack of) sustainability of Irelands current model.

https://t.co/2vsVOehA0w?amp=1

Quote
'FDI growth regime been made possible by inward migration and European integration, but given the unequal distribution of the economic benefits that this generates, it is unlikely to be politically, or electorally, sustainable'

What about Singapore? They are about 20 years ahead of us down the FDI driven economic model and seem to be doing just fine. Granted their social housing policy is about 50 years ahead of ours but still...

weldoninhio

Edenmoar wrote: »

well where do we get our cleaners etc from in the meantime? I believe most people are inherently good anyway, the wasters in this country are Irish not foreign. Anyway where do people find the time to give a sh*t about where people are from? Life's too short amigos.

There is huge unemployment in Italy and Spain and other EU countries, why not campaign and try to recruit our European brethren??

Edenmoar

weldoninhio wrote: »

There is huge unemployment in Italy and Spain, why not campaign and try to recruit our european brethren??

as opposed to who? also, spanish and italians dont want to come to ireland to clean hotel rooms. I spend a lot of time in Spain and the cleaners are usually Romanian/Bulgarian or South American anyway.

cloudatlas

Mr. teddywinkles wrote: »

Yep couldn't put it any better myself.

Yeah you could

dey terk er jerbs!

GinAndBitter

A lot employers will look for Romanians, Bulgarians for cleaning jobs because they get away with treating them like slaves. Irish people won't take ****e off employers, they know their rights.

Edenmoar

GinAndBitter wrote: »

A lot employers will look for Romanians, Bulgarians for cleaning jobs because they get away with treating them like slaves. Irish people won't take ****e off employers, they know their rights.

No, Irish people would rather be on the scratcher than have menial jobs like cleaning. And would you blame them, given our generous welfare. Even 20 years ago when I started working in Dublin, the cleaners in offices were always inner city Dublin type women. There's not one Irish person working as a cleaner where I am now.

GinAndBitter

Edenmoar wrote: »

No, Irish people would rather be on the scratcher than have menial jobs like cleaning. And would you blame them, given our generous welfare. Even 20 years ago when I started working in Dublin, the cleaners in offices were always inner city Dublin type women. There's not one Irish person working as a cleaner where I am now.

I work for a company that provides cleaners and other staff for different sites, I'd say about 70% of the applications for cleaning are from eastern Europeans mostly Croatians and Romanians, there are still Irish people that will do these jobs. The difference is the immigrants are terrified of losing the job so you can call them at any hour on their day of or whatever and they will jump and go whereever you tell them to go and work for as long as you tell them.


Irish people won't do that nor should they have to. Its the employers taking advantage that are the problem not the immigrants.

Tacklebox

topper75 wrote: »

That is because you are normal person.

Most people are normal but they dragged into discussing these abstract topics and isms because it represents common ground, a lowest common denominator. And so they waste time here on the internet.

Though it would probably be a lot more real and relevant, I can't discuss herrings with you. They don't feature in my life much.

A herring choker is what guys in Wexford call fishermen

Tacklebox

Edenmoar wrote: »

No, Irish people would rather be on the scratcher than have menial jobs like cleaning. And would you blame them, given our generous welfare. Even 20 years ago when I started working in Dublin, the cleaners in offices were always inner city Dublin type women. There's not one Irish person working as a cleaner where I am now.

I remember when cleaners were paid quite well, I was stacking shelves in Quinnsworth back in 92 while in secondary school.
I was on 2:49 an hour getting **** from trainee managers lol my brother was getting 4:50 an hour cleaning for Noonans cleaners.

Buffing and polishing floors in the Airport.

I actually like cleaning, nothing like getting dirty and harden into my calluses, then having to clean the hands after...

What's wrong with inner city women ?

Edenmoar

Tacklebox wrote: »

What's wrong with inner city women ?

why are you asking me that?

Tacklebox

Edenmoar wrote: »

why are you asking me that?

Why describe the women as "inner-city type?

Couldn't they be just women?

Edenmoar

Tacklebox wrote: »

Why describe the women as "inner-city type?

Couldn't they be just women?

they were from the inner city, the wans i'm thinking of

GinAndBitter

Edenmoar wrote: »

they were from the inner city, the wans i'm thinking of

Did you ask them all where they were from? You said "inner city type women".

Tacklebox

Edenmoar wrote: »

they were from the inner city, the wans i'm thinking of

Oh ok i get you now, they call then Stella's in Cork

Edenmoar

GinAndBitter wrote: »

Did you ask them all where they were from? You said "inner city type women".

Yes. As in uneducated low skill people from poor backgrounds. Cmon you're not that thick. My Ma is a townie, who left school at 14, she was also a cleaner for a while.

Ultros

Can be good, depends on the culture and mentality of those being brought in. What's happened to certain parts of Europe is a disgrace.

Some people will probably think I'm making this up, I started a new job recently and there's an English chap working there. He told me the street and surroundings he grew up totally changed culture wise and he with his family emigrated to Ireland because of it. The anti Brexit parade will never admit that the main issue behind it was immigration and how the UK is changing for the worse because of it, all you hear is "People were tricked, uneducated low information voters" and so on.

Edenmoar

Ultros wrote: »

The anti Brexit parade will never admit that the main issue behind it was immigration and how the UK is changing for the worse because of it, all you hear is "People were tricked, uneducated low information voters" and so on.

It's one of the biggest economies in the world though, it simply can't continue that way without lots of immigration. They were sold a lie.

Ultros

Edenmoar wrote: »

It's one of the biggest economies in the world though, it simply can't continue that way without lots of immigration. They were sold a lie.

The issue isn't immigration. Read the first part of my post, the issue in that country is the problems associated with importing mass amounts of people from Islamic cultures. You can't take in copious amounts of people with a different culture and expect it to end up well.

topper75

Ultros wrote: »

Can be good, depends on the culture and mentality of those being brought in. What's happened to certain parts of Europe is a disgrace.

Yes we need to be judicious.

Can I ask thread starter skaterboi again to state if they believe we need any filter or not on this multicultural drive?

Ulysses Gaze

Edenmoar wrote: »

It's one of the biggest economies in the world though, it simply can't continue that way without lots of immigration. They were sold a lie.

They need skilled migrants not more cab drivers, street cleaners and fast food workers.

Edenmoar

Ultros wrote: »

The issue isn't immigration. Read the first part of my post, the issue in that country is the problems associated with mass amounts of people from Islamic cultures. You can't take in copious amounts of people with a different culture and expect it to end up well.

Well I lived in the uk for 7 years and the Islamic folk seemed to integrate fine, I worked with plenty. It has ended up well, the UK is maybe the biggest melting pot of cultures in the world and for the most part everyone is very respectful of one another. And you can always get a good kebab!

Edenmoar

Ulysses Gaze wrote: »

They need skilled migrants not more cab drivers, street cleaners and fast food workers.

So where will they get the fast food workers and cleaners from then? Sunderland?

4068ac1elhodqr

Edenmoar wrote: »

It's one of the biggest economies in the world though, it simply can't continue that way without lots of immigration. They were sold a lie.

The fact is they (uk) will still have plenty of migration, the only difference is they will now get 'quality/skilled' migration via their new proposed points system.

So anyone unskilled coming to the uk expecting to earn less than 30k GBP, won't be required nor welcome. Not to mention stricter health, literacy,education and police background checks.

Edenmoar

Sienna Nervous Purse wrote: »

The fact is they (uk) will still have plenty of migration, the only difference is they will now get 'quality/skilled' migration via their new proposed points system.

So anyone unskilled coming to the uk expecting to earn less than 30k GBP, won't be required nor welcome. Not to mention stricter health, literacy,education and police background checks.

They'll be pretty f'd trying to fill cleaning positions etc in that case. I'm not saying open borders is a great thing, but the in this capitalist greed based society we now live in in the west, low skilled immigration is definitely required in order for countries to function.

4068ac1elhodqr

Edenmoar wrote: »

Well I lived in the uk for 7 years and the Islamic folk seemed to integrate fine, I worked with plenty. It has ended up well, the UK is maybe the biggest melting pot of cultures in the world and for the most part everyone is very respectful of one another. And you can always get a good kebab!

Ah the 'kebab' argument, "shure everyone needs a nice kebab".

Mass migration in 2016 caused the end of the EU as we know it (Brexit) is that working out fine?

Only this week in Birmingham a school was forced to close, because mainly (integrated?) islamic folk didn't approve of SexEd classes.

Are grooming gangs fine and respectful?

Edenmoar

Sienna Nervous Purse wrote: »

Ah the 'kebab' argument, "shure everyone needs a nice kebab".

Mass migration in 2016 caused the end of the EU as we know it (Brexit) is that working out fine?

Only this week in Birmingham a school was forced to close, because mainly (integrated?) islamic folk didn't approve of SexEd classes.

Are grooming gangs fine and respectful?

what about irish gangs keeping slaves and destroying the countryside in the UK? should we stop irish people emigrating there? we used to bomb the sh*t out of england too.
whataboutery yes, but there are good and bad of all peoples.

GinAndBitter

Edenmoar wrote: »

Yes. As in uneducated low skill people from poor backgrounds. Cmon you're not that thick. My Ma is a townie, who left school at 14, she was also a cleaner for a while.

So inner city type people are low skilled,uneducated and from poor backgrounds? Or is it just the ones you know that are?

4068ac1elhodqr

Edenmoar wrote: »

They'll be pretty f'd trying to fill cleaning positions etc in that case.

Welcome to the concept of wage elasticity (economics 101).
-Lack of Demand? Modify the Price (wages+) = Supply++.

Edenmoar

GinAndBitter wrote: »

So inner city type people are low skilled,uneducated and from poor backgrounds? Or is it just the ones you know that are?

yes, they used to be anyway. The flats etc. They don't go to Blackrock college, but you know that anyway, I don't know what your angle is here.