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Sex education in schools!

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    #482
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,516 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »

    There's a fair chance that some of them are looking at porn, mind you, after writing their letters to Santa and playing tag. So it just might be a good idea for them to have some context.

    This is false.

    I have a child in 3rd class.

    They are not "looking at porn".

    They barely know the word "sex", indeed I suspect many of them have never heard it.

    If any of them are looking at porn, I suggest it is maybe 1 in 10,000 of them, and clearly those children are living in a neglectful situation.


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    #483
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,516 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    So you don't want any sex education for primary school kids then?

    Is primary school too early?

    Maybe.

    Maybe 6th class?


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    #484
    FeirmeoirtTed
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭FeirmeoirtTed


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    So what did you mean when you said "just because you are an absent parent doesn't mean that the rest of the class have to be exposed to adult themes"


    Are the class going to be exposed to sex education or not?

    It means if you want your 3rd or 4th class child to learn about sex and masturbating then you teach them about it. I'm saying it's not age appropriate for much the same reason movies are given a U PG or 15 18 rating because there is no reason to teach a child in those classes about masturbation or porn if their parents are present and vigilant. I can assure you no child in school looks at porn. What happens at home is up to parental supervision. It's also not on the curriculum I've already explained exactly what is on the curriculum and I've said its important and very well explained. Ive also said children should be allowed to be children.


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    #485
    Geuze
    Registered Users Posts: 13,516 ✭✭✭✭Geuze


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Why would you not want to discuss it, as part of a programme of sex education? What specifically is your problem with discussing it?

    Let's not over-sexualise children.


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    #486
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,125 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Geuze wrote: »
    This is false.

    I have a child in 3rd class.

    They are not "looking at porn".

    They barely know the word "sex", indeed I suspect many of them have never heard it.

    If any of them are looking at porn, I suggest it is maybe 1 in 10,000 of them, and clearly those children are living in a neglectful situation.


    It was the Accord instructor in the local Catholic school who told parents about the 4th class boys swapping lists of their favourite porn sites.

    Geuze wrote: »
    Is primary school too early?

    Maybe.

    Maybe 6th class?


    6th class is too late to start. Girls are menstruating from 4th class onwards.
    FeirmeoirtTed wrote: »
    It means if you want your 3rd or 4th class child to learn about sex and masturbating then you teach them about it. I'm saying it's not age appropriate for much the same reason movies are given a U PG or 15 18 rating because there is no reason to teach a child in those classes about masturbation or porn if their parents are present and vigilant. I can assure you no child in school looks at porn. What happens at home is up to parental supervision. It's also not on the curriculum I've already explained exactly what is on the curriculum and I've said its important and very well explained. Ive also said children should be allowed to be children.


    Baahaaahaaawaahaaa.

    Geuze wrote: »
    Let's not over-sexualise children.
    Fully agree.


    Educating children about sex is not sexualising them. It is educating them.


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    #487
    FeirmeoirtTed
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭FeirmeoirtTed


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    It was the Accord instructor in the local Catholic school who told parents about the 4th class boys swapping lists of their favourite porn sites.





    6th class is too late to start. Girls are menstruating from 4th class onwards.




    Baahaaahaaawaahaaa.



    Fully agree.


    Educating children about sex is not sexualising them. It is educating them.
    There are filters on school Wi-Fi across the board in all Irish primary schools. children can't access porn sites. Most primary school have banned phones in the schools . If children are looking at porn in school id once again appoint the finger right back at parents. You seem to think that teaching children that watching porn and masturbating is not sexualising them? I've no idea what's going on in your local Catholic school but maybe the parents of the children should talk to their kids or stick a filter on their devices id have thought that's a responsible thing to do. Puberty is taught in 5th class.


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    #488
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,125 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    FeirmeoirtTed wrote: »
    There are filters on school Wi-Fi across the board in all Irish primary schools. children can't access porn sites. Most primary school have banned phones in the schools . If children are looking at porn in school id once again appoint the finger right back at parents. You seem to think that teaching children that watching porn and masturbating is not sexualising them? I've no idea what's going on in your local Catholic school but maybe the parents of the children should talk to their kids or stick a filter on their devices id have thought that's a responsible thing to do. Puberty is taught in 5th class.

    They're not strip searching kids on the way in, so they've no real idea as to whether they have phones with them or not.

    But it really doesn't matter whether they're looking at porn in school or elsewhere. The issue is that they're looking at porn. The issue is that they're swapping porn details with classmates. The issue is that they're smarter than their parents when it comes to filters.

    You can play the 'see no evil' monkey if you like, but that doesn't change the reality on the ground.


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    #489
    FeirmeoirtTed
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭FeirmeoirtTed


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    They're not strip searching kids on the way in, so they've no real idea as to whether they have phones with them or not.

    But it really doesn't matter whether they're looking at porn in school or elsewhere. The issue is that they're looking at porn. The issue is that they're swapping porn details with classmates. The issue is that they're smarter than their parents when it comes to filters.

    You can play the 'see no evil' monkey if you like, but that doesn't change the reality on the ground.
    What reality and what ground are you talking about??? That's entirely at odds with the reality I see on the ground . Primary school kids are not looking at porn in schools where is that happening?? The biggest issue with primary school kids is Minecraft and gaming not porn websites.


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    #490
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,125 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    FeirmeoirtTed wrote: »
    What reality and what ground are you talking about??? That's entirely at odds with the reality I see on the ground . Primary school kids are not looking at porn in schools where is that happening?? The biggest issue with primary school kids is Minecraft and gaming not porn websites.

    This may come as a surprise to you, but when kids (and indeed many adults) look at porn, they don't advertise what they are doing.


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    #491
    FeirmeoirtTed
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭FeirmeoirtTed


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    This may come as a surprise to you, but when kids (and indeed many adults) look at porn, they don't advertise what they are doing.

    This may come as a surprise to you they also might not be hiding anything. Also most parents are intuitive they pick up on the "signs". If you spend 6 hours a day with children for half the year you tend to judge their level of maturity/innocence on what you see in front of you, how they react to certain situations, how they react to the rse programme in general and to their peers the level of bad language used and their attitudes to their peers, what movies they want to watch on wet days.


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    #492
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 35,081 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    FeirmeoirtTed wrote: »
    There are filters on school Wi-Fi across the board in all Irish primary schools. children can't access porn sites.

    You have heard of this thing called mobile data, yes?
    Most primary school have banned phones in the schools

    They can ban them in the classroom, but from 5th or 6th class on, most kids will be bringing a phone to school.
    Puberty is taught in 5th class.

    That risks being too late these days, especially as many kids are nearly 6 starting school.

    © 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd



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    #493
    FeirmeoirtTed
    Registered Users Posts: 100 ✭✭FeirmeoirtTed


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    You have heard of this thing called mobile data, yes?
    You have heard of this thing called a content filter its implemented by the mobile data provider. Again that's a parental issue, very little a school can do about that.


    They can ban them in the classroom, but from 5th or 6th class on, most kids will be bringing a phone to school.
    Presumably most of these kids are looked at porn that bring in their phones then?


    That risks being too late these days, especially as many kids are nearly 6 starting school.
    Most kids are 5 not six in fact id say it's rare that 6 year olds start junior infants some are 4 when they start. That is what the current curriculum has in place.


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    #494
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 35,081 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    I didn't say they were 6, read my post again.

    © 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd



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    #495
    Midster
    Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Midster


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    The question you keep avoiding is why you're happy to have sex education covering sexual intercourse, but exclude masturbation.


    Aren't you afraid that soon as you explain intercourse, they'll just just rush out the classroom door and start shagging like bunnies in the broom cupboards?


    What's the distinction in your mind between teaching about sexual intercourse and teaching about masturbation?



    You might want to go back and read it again. Skim reading doesn't work well in these discussions.

    Actually, the more you can teach people about basic human relationships, the less likely that the incels will continue to wallow in their own mess.


    I’m actually against teaching kids about both. I mean come on, really what’s the point? I got by quite happily with just a few pictures of the inside of a p***s and v****a in a text book and learnt mostly everything else by the conversations between friends.
    Like I have said, sex is not a difficult thing to do, kids do and have always got the hang of it and went on after then to have very full and satisfying sex lives.
    The point is, this information came in slowly, and tbh wasn’t always easy to obtain.
    So I stayed just a kid, for just a little while longer.

    People want to be good or brilliant at everything so fast these days, and it’s to the detriment of loosing the last strand of childhood, called innocence.


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    #496
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    Surely the purpose of this sex education is not to make kids 'good at sex' !




    Midster wrote: »
    I’m actually against teaching kids about both. I mean come on, really what’s the point? I got by quite happily with just a few pictures of the inside of a p***s and v****a in a text book and learnt mostly everything else by the conversations between friends.
    Like I have said, sex is not a difficult thing to do, kids do and have always got the hang of it and went on after then to have very full and satisfying sex lives.
    The point is, this information came in slowly, and tbh wasn’t always easy to obtain.
    So I stayed just a kid, for just a little while longer.

    People want to be good or brilliant at everything so fast these days, and it’s to the detriment of loosing the last strand of childhood, called innocence.


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    #497
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,125 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Midster wrote: »
    I’m actually against teaching kids about both. I mean come on, really what’s the point? I got by quite happily with just a few pictures of the inside of a p***s and v****a in a text book and learnt mostly everything else by the conversations between friends.
    Like I have said, sex is not a difficult thing to do, kids do and have always got the hang of it and went on after then to have very full and satisfying sex lives.
    The point is, this information came in slowly, and tbh wasn’t always easy to obtain.
    So I stayed just a kid, for just a little while longer.

    People want to be good or brilliant at everything so fast these days, and it’s to the detriment of loosing the last strand of childhood, called innocence.

    Should we take the same approach for other topics? Maths, English, Science? Just let friends tell each other stuff and see how that works out.

    Why are some people so afraid of education?


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    #498
    Midster
    Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Midster


    Sardonicat wrote: »
    Does that not prove the point why teenagers could benefit from sex education? All of your criticism so far has focused on the experience of straight boys. Teenage girls need telling that there's more to sex then a guy sticking his penis in her vagina. It would be most beneficial to both teenage boys and girls to know, before they start having sex, that 70% of females cannot achieve orgasm through vaginal penetration and there's nothing wrong with them if they can't . That other sexual activity is as much "sex' as vaginal sexual intetcourse and there are ways of reaching female orgasm besides it. That it's not usual for couples to cum together. That female masturbation is normal and healthy. What a clitoris is and where it is. I know adults, both male and female, who are confused about this, so obviously they didn't learn everything they need to know naturally from other kids. What about the potential for pain in females when they first start having sex? Should this not be raised along with ways to avoid it or do you think its ok that many females endure excruciating sexual intercourse when they first become sexually actuve becauae they think its normal? A thread in PI recently discussed this and to my horror many teplies from females much younger than i were telling this poor girl it was normal for a few months! You think that level of ignorance in young men and women is acceptable just so long as boys know they can stick their cocks in a vag?

    And those are just a handful of ways open discussion about sex with teenagers can assist them before they start having sex. That's not even taking into account safety, hygiene, communication and consent. Oh yeah, and the kids who aren't straight. Cock goes in vag is not of much use to them.

    Someone is probably going to tell me I’m wrong now, but for me, maybe 80% of the joy I got, or get from having sex is from the little noises and sounds the woman makes as your doing the best job you can for her, and the fact it was me that’s causing all those feelings rippling through the woman’s body was truly the biggest turn on of all.
    Then when the man comes, it’s about 5 seconds of oh god yes and then it’s hyper sensitive.

    In the early days I did notice that this wasn’t happening as much as I thought it would be, and it wasn’t as good experience in general as I was lead to believe.

    But all that did was make me want to do it less, I could still have that childish boyfriend, girlfriend relationship, and looking back now I really appreciated it.

    Sex was also uncomfortable for me in the beginning, when I was about 9/10 my tiny p***s was hurting when it got hard, so my mummy took me to the doctor and he told me that I needed a little bit of skin cutting of my penis, I was terrified and screamed blue murder not to have it.

    As a result I’m not circumcised now. And at first having sex was also really uncomfortable for me, but I wouldn’t change that.

    Sex is now wonderful, and everything I hoped it would be.

    Most girls are very private about there sexual parts, so if girls any girls find they are having problems the information should be easy to find on the internet, we’re they can look at it privately, maybe chat about it with someone who understands the problem there having, with zero embarrassment vs putting your hand up in a class in front of boys/girls and friends to ask a very personal question about themselves.


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    #499
    Midster
    Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Midster


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    Should we take the same approach for other topics? Maths, English, Science? Just let friends tell each other stuff and see how that works out.

    Why are some people so afraid of education?

    Because it’s NOT NEEDED!!

    It’s not that either I, or anyone else is against education. It’s just the answer doesn’t always have to be in a class room.

    Kids around that age these days, spend mostly there whole time with there heads in the proverbial net, so why not give the answers on there. Instead of a classroom we’re in order to get the answers to the questions that specifically relate to them, is to put there hands up in front of the whole class and tell everyone what there private parts do, or don’t do in sex.

    It would be humiliating for most people, girls even more so as, in case you haven’t noticed girls are naturally more private about there private parts.

    Schools are for teaching subjects that will help these kids get jobs, and the precious time the teachers have to teach these things to the kids is being increasingly taken up by other subjects that don’t.

    We have internet, all teenagers use it, so why the hell not use common sense and put the information there.


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    #500
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,125 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Midster wrote: »
    Sex is now wonderful, and everything I hoped it would be.

    Most girls are very private about there sexual parts, so if girls any girls find they are having problems the information should be easy to find on the internet, we’re they can look at it privately, maybe chat about it with someone who understands the problem there having, with zero embarrassment vs putting your hand up in a class in front of boys/girls and friends to ask a very personal question about themselves.

    I've no idea why you would differentiate between girls and boys in the need for sex education, but 'look it up on the internet' is not education. Given the topic, it is a minefield.

    Teachers are well experienced in dealing with the embarrassment factor. A simple option is to get all students to submit a note with any question they have, or a 'no question' note. Everyone submits a note, so there is no embarrassment for those who do have questions.

    It's not hard really - just a basic teaching technique.


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    #501
    Midster
    Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Midster


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    Surely the purpose of this sex education is not to make kids 'good at sex' !


    It’s not just sex Ed that’s being suggested, it’s detailed sex Ed were as a kid, if you do have a problem and an answer that’s desperately needed, you have no choice but to put your hand up in front of everyone.

    We have the internet, kids that age spend there whole lives on the internet, it’s easy to use, and less embarrassing, so why not put the answers there???


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    #502
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,125 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Midster wrote: »
    It’s not just sex Ed that’s being suggested, it’s detailed sex Ed
    It is age appropriate levels of detail.
    Midster wrote: »
    were as a kid, if you do have a problem and an answer that’s desperately needed, you have no choice but to put your hand up in front of everyone.
    That's not true.


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    #503
    Hotblack Desiato
    Registered Users Posts: 35,081 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Midster wrote: »
    The point is, this information came in slowly, and tbh wasn’t always easy to obtain.
    So I stayed just a kid, for just a little while longer.

    People want to be good or brilliant at everything so fast these days, and it’s to the detriment of loosing the last strand of childhood, called innocence.

    Well it's a very different world today and that genie is not going back inside the bottle. Information is everywhere but much of it is bad information.

    © 1982 Sinclair Research Ltd



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    #504
    osarusan
    Registered Users Posts: 16,643 ✭✭✭✭osarusan


    Lest we forget...

    Midster wrote: »
    You are being ridiculous, in case you don’t know already, they don’t have fake sex in porn, the orgasms are real.


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    #505
    Midster
    Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Midster


    Hotblack Desiato wrote: »
    Well it's a very different world today and that genie is not going back inside the bottle. Information is everywhere but much of it is bad information.

    A dedicated web site for teens would at least provide kids with some degree of anaminity.


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    #506
    Midster
    Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Midster


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    It is age appropriate levels of detail.

    Then why not an age appropriate web site


    That's not true.

    Yes it is


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    #507
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,125 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Midster wrote: »
    Yes it is

    No, it's not, as explained above. A teacher will find ways for kids to ask questions without having to put their hands up. This can be the old fashioned way, where every kid is asked to hand in a paper note, or you can use tech facilities like slido to allow questions to be submitted electronically.


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    #508
    marieholmfan
    Registered Users Posts: 2,744 ✭✭✭marieholmfan


    Surely midster the fact that children have access to pornography makes sex education more necessary not less necessary


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    #509
    Midster
    Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Midster


    marieholmfan wrote: »
    Surely midster the fact that children have access to pornography makes sex education more necessary not less necessary

    Once again, teenage kids these days live there whole teenage lives online. It gives them a sense of separation and gives them the opportunity to ask questions they wouldn’t normally.

    So why not save the schools the time they would use teaching kids something that they are more than capable of finding out for themselves online.
    Create, if there isn’t one already a dedicated web site we’re teenagers can get answers to these sometimes embarrassing questions without the embarrassment.
    And allow the teachers to carry on teaching the subjects that will help them get these kids jobs in the future.


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    #510
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 29,125 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    Midster wrote: »
    A dedicated web site for teens would at least provide kids with some degree of anaminity.

    There are plenty of online sources of information out there. This Irish one is aimed at older teens and young people. https://spunout.ie/health/category/health-sexual-health

    These can indeed be useful resources, but they're not a replacement for classroom education.

    There's plenty of maths websites too - should we drop maths from classrooms, or is it just that you're personally uncomfortable talking about sexual matters?


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    #511
    Midster
    Registered Users Posts: 322 ✭✭Midster


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    No, it's not, as explained above. A teacher will find ways for kids to ask questions without having to put their hands up. This can be the old fashioned way, where every kid is asked to hand in a paper note, or you can use tech facilities like slido to allow questions to be submitted electronically.

    Kids will make assumptions, and one question that’s been read to the whole class will be pinned to someone, by everyone else.


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