Move son to third secondary school?

SOS1975

My son (17) is not doing well in school, here’s a bit of background,

Bullied in 5th and 6th class

1st- 3rd he was unsettlied and underperforming academically,asked to leave but stayed for TY because he wanted a break from the books.

Started a new 5th and 6th yr only school in sept(his choice)!and is really struggling. He is very stressed and can’t put in the hours expected of him.

He has been to counseling between 13-15 and we have made contact again to get him help.

Anyone experienced similar?
What would be the best thing to do?
He is very bright and has ambition but at the moment getting him a leaving cert is the goal.

lildaisy

Went through something very similar (almost failed junior cert as a result) in uni now. All I can ask is, does he want to ? Or is this just a solution you're currently thinking of?

SOS1975

lildaisy wrote: »

Went through something very similar (almost failed junior cert as a result) in uni now. All I can ask is, does he want to ? Or is this just a solution you're currently thinking of?

He says he can’t go back to the school.
When I asked him to talk to me about an alternative looks like he says ‘ I don’t know’

Coaxing him to the end of fifth yr seems possible but another year beyond that I’m not so sure.

He is at his worst at home so the school don’t know there is a problem. I’m not sure how much help they will be , they were insistent last sept that he was there to work.

Day Lewin

What does he actually like doing?

Is there anything in his current skill-set (or happiness meter) that he could make a living at?

He does know that he will have to earn his living eventually?

Would it matter so very much if he doesn't achieve a great leaving cert? There is life after school!

You say your son is bright and ambitious; these won't vanish out of his life :-)

- And college btw is not essential for a successful life. Thousands do it.
I'm aware this is almost heresy but it bears reflection.
There's work and travel and plc courses.

My experienced opinion would be that moving to a third secondary school sounds like a last-ditch act of desperation: if something is going wrong, it is possibly not the school.

Your son will soon be an adult: listen to him, and help him decide a course of action that leads to a contented life - and an income.

splinter65

Listen to your son. If he wants to finish let him finish. As long as he knows the consequences of having no LC. But first you have to almost sign him into a contract where he will be spending all his days looking for an alternative, be it a course or work, and that there will be absolutely no money whatsoever for anything including mobile phone credit. Basic food and shelter is provided at home and that is it.
This is where the tough love comes in.

randylonghorn

How did he actually do in the JC?

I'm curious, though in another way I feel it's irrelevant right now.

"(He) is really struggling. He is very stressed ..." doesn't sound great tbh. If he was just being a lazy twerp, that's a different thing, but that's not really the picture you're painting (there could still be an element of it of course, but it doesn't sound like that's the main problem).

His mental health is more important than the Leaving Cert. Don't put pressure on him that you may regret later.

I do agree with splinter though, he needs to know that if he's dropping out he WILL be doing something useful with his time, not dossing around at home ... whether it's a course or a job, doesn't matter.

And maybe in a year's time, he may have matured and grown stronger in himself, and he may feel differently about it. He's still young. Or in a couple of years he could go back and do his LC through VTOS, which would be a much more supportive and less stressful environment. (I understand that the 5th / 6th year college was his choice, but it may not have been the best choice for someone who was already stressed and struggling academically by the sounds of it ... those places can be quite pressurised even compared to a normal secondary school).

Or he may find a different path altogether ....

Day Lewin wrote: »

- And college btw is not essential for a successful life. Thousands do it.
I'm aware this is almost heresy but it bears reflection.

No, it's not heresy, it's a simple basic truth that often gets lost in the media hype. And I say that as someone who works in a university!!

Another simple truth is that nowadays one can pick up the threads of one's education at pretty much any stage in life. In fact, while for most it's probably easier to go the "traditional" route, many find that they get far more benefit from returning to education at a later stage when they are more mature, have a clearer idea of what they really want to do, and better understand the value of that education.

And some who go the "traditional" route would probably be far better off if they had left it for a couple of years ...

Wanderer78

splinter65 wrote:

Listen to your son. If he wants to finish let him finish. As long as he knows the consequences of having no LC. But first you have to almost sign him into a contract where he will be spending all his days looking for an alternative, be it a course or work, and that there will be absolutely no money whatsoever for anything including mobile phone credit. Basic food and shelter is provided at home and that is it. This is where the tough love comes in.

Fcuking hell!

The root causes of this chaps unhappiness must be searched for, have him assessed for issues such as developmental and learning difficulties, my suspicions being, this is where you may find the culprit(s) of his unhappiness. Best of luck

SOS1975

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Fcuking hell!

The root causes of this chaps unhappiness must be searched for, have him assessed for issues such as developmental and learning difficulties, my suspicions being, this is where you may find the culprit(s) of his unhappiness. Best of luck[/quote


School has always been where life is hardest, he was let down by the principle of the national school and the vice if his secondary school.
They didn’t listen to him just tried to bounce him back into the regimen. The new school also have a regime that he rails against. Once life gets hard he rebels by not working at school.
Then in complete contrast say he’s not happy to leave 13 yrs of education without a leaving cert.
It’s such a roller coaster.

beveragelady

SOS1975 wrote: »

School has always been where life is hardest, he was let down by the principle of the national school and the vice if his secondary school.
They didn’t listen to him just tried to bounce him back into the regimen. The new school also have a regime that he rails against. Once life gets hard he rebels by not working at school.
Then in complete contrast say he’s not happy to leave 13 yrs of education without a leaving cert.
It’s such a roller coaster.

Obviously I don't know anything about the specifics of this situation but here's how it looks from the outside:
In three different schools somebody else has apparently been at fault, yet the only common factor is the child himself.
He has a problem with working within a system. Moving schools is not going to solve anything.

wirelessdude01

beveragelady wrote:

Obviously I don't know anything about the specifics of this situation but here's how it looks from the outside: In three different schools somebody else has apparently been at fault, yet the only common factor is the child himself. He has a problem with working within a system. Moving schools is not going to solve anything.

This 100%. The issue is still continuing despite all the changes so maybe stop blaming the system. Sounds like he is immature and/or stubborn. Structure of school may not suit him at this present time.

Tacklebox

beveragelady wrote: »

Obviously I don't know anything about the specifics of this situation but here's how it looks from the outside:
In three different schools somebody else has apparently been at fault, yet the only common factor is the child himself.
He has a problem with working within a system. Moving schools is not going to solve anything.

That's not fair really, the parents are probably extremely worried about their kid and all you can do is passively agressively undermine their concerns.

Maybe the system has failed their son.

TheBeach

Would a college of further and higher education suit him? For example the North West college in Derry. He could concentrate on a more specific course there and perhaps meet some kindred spirits who don't suit mainstream education at this time in their lives.

Simple_Simone

Given the situation, are you sure that a third secondary school would take him?

cannotlogin

You've already changed school so the school really isn't the issue.

There's a bigger issue than school and that needs to be identified and addressed, otherwise it will be the exact same outcome at the third school.

Your son probably needs a lot of counselling to address the underlying issues. Maybe write off the rest of this school year, focus on addressing his mental health and attitude with the aim of trying a 3rd school in September.

Unfortunately, there are bullies in college and the workplace too & the skills he learns now will be needed for life.

Best of luck, you do seem to have his best interests at heart. The only other thing I picked up on in your post is that he cannot do the hours expected of him - he's in 5th yr, the time invested shouldn't be massive. Is there any chance your expectations of him are too high? Is he feeling pressure?

Under the circumstances, i think getting him to complete the leaving cert (rather than the actual results) should be the focus. There's many different routes he can take post leaving cert but it's almost like a minimium requirement for nearly all jobs now. He needs to tick that box while he's young, the rest he can figure out in time.

SOS1975

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

This 100%. The issue is still continuing despite all the changes so maybe stop blaming the system. Sounds like he is immature and/or stubborn. Structure of school may not suit him at this present time.

I think this is 50% of the problem and the rest is a genuine inability to work within the system.

We are willing to let him walk away but worry be will regret that later in life. A LC is a minimum requirement for almost every job.

He said he will go back tomorrow.
He has class tests in a Monday and he will do no work for them. The teachers will give feedback on the results and he will get the hump over it.

trihead

He should speak to someone in the school about LCA (Leaving Cert Applied) or LCVP (Leaving Certificate Vocational Programme). They might be an option if there are run in the school.

I would look at PLC / FE routes or the new apprentices - you would need 5 LC passes. See https://www.fetchcourses.ie for info in both these options.

If he does drop out completely (which I hope he doesn't ) maybe iScoil is an option too

https://iscoil.ie

iScoil is an online learning community that offers an alternative path to learning, accreditation and progression for young people.

Icsics

Why don't you contact the school Year head/guidance counsellor/P/VP...?

wirelessdude01

cannotlogin wrote:

Under the circumstances, i think getting him to complete the leaving cert (rather than the actual results) should be the focus. There's many different routes he can take post leaving cert but it's almost like a minimium requirement for nearly all jobs now. He needs to tick that box while he's young, the rest he can figure out in time.

I'm a teacher now but if you said to any of my teachers at either primary or secondary that is where I would be they would have laughed. Didn't care about school at the time. Only cared about sport and that was with two teachers as parents. Many many different ways to get where you are meant to and the journey there is the best part.

Wildly Boaring

Any interest in an apprenticeship?

There are a whole load of new ones but the old favourites like electrician and plumber are always a banker.

After 6 months he will either love it and knuckle down or be prepared to go back and sort LC.

beveragelady

Few things re-focus the mind on education quite as well as a badly-paid job somewhere where they barely know you exist because you're utterly dispensable. Toiling away at the bottom of the pack while some idiot (who barely managed a degree in commerce but somehow comes to work in a Lexus) lords it over you really encourages some solemn thought about the value of those qualifications.
The prospect of spending time on the lowest rungs of the workforce might bring him around to playing nicely within the structure and restrictions of a school.
Send him out with some CVs over the Easter holidays. Introduce him to the real world and let him know that this is what awaits him if he honestly believes that formal education isn't for him.

Here's another thought, and again I acknowledge that I don't know anything about this specific case. Is it possible that the fear of underperforming is behind all this? If he throws it all away then nobody will ever know how well he might have done, but if he tries his best and comes up short he feels his academic weakness has been revealed. He wouldn't be the first to operate on that flawed logic. Sometimes they don't even realise that that's what they're doing. Kids who excelled in primary school but are just high-average in secondary school sometimes really struggle to adjust.

bisset

Youthreach might be an option if school is just not "for him".