Cancellation of motor insurance for nondisclosure

Ush1

Looking for advice on this.

My insurance was due for renewal and I've been with the same company since 2013 but the renewal seemed a bit high. I got a quote from Liberty online and it was a good bit cheaper so I went with it.

When I was asked about any incidents in the last 3 years I wasn't sure. I've had one claim in my ten years of driving but wasn't sure when so I rang my old insurer and they told me I had 5 years no claims bonus so I assumed I didn't have a claim in 5 years. So I answered no to that question and went ahead and payed for the policy.

When Liberty requested my NCB cert I got it from the old insurer and on that realised that the claim was actually in 2016. I filled that in on the documents for Liberty and sent it back.

They then phoned me and told me the policy has been cancelled for nondisclosure. I was a bit confused but said okay I will just try another insurer. When I rang two other insurers they told me they will not insure anyone with a cancellation against them!

This seems crazy that I'm basically blackballed. I know I can go to a committee when I have 3 refusals but I'd imagine the premium will be mad.

Henry Ford III

I think you are in a bit of bother here, and frankly it's your own fault.

Your renewal would have shown details of the claim from 2016 - did Liberty not ask for a copy?

Ush1

Henry Ford III wrote: »

I think you are in a bit of bother here, and frankly it's your own fault.

Your renewal would have shown details of the claim from 2016 - did Liberty not ask for a copy?

The renewal I was acting off of was just an email with the quote price. There was no detail to it.

Yes Liberty did ask for a copy of the no claims cert which I sent them and included information about the claim in 2016.

NUTLEY BOY

Unfortunately, the legal position with disclosure of material facts is quite strict.

You may have been unfortunate in that you seem to have asked the previous insurers the 3 year question but that was not what they answered.
Specifically, you seem to have asked them about any incidents within the last 3 years and they answered that you have 5 years no claims discount.
This was not the answer to the question posed as, properly speaking, those are distinctly different matters.

Therefore, you appear to have acted under a basic misapprehension of what your previous insurers told you - aka simple mistake.
The full facts were disclosed when you sent Liberty the statement of NCB.
Did they think that you thought that they would not notice that fact :rolleyes:

I would go back to Liberty and argue this point out on the basis that this is a matter of basic mistake as distinct from deliberate misrepresentation.
I would complain that their attitude is unreasonable, overly technical and utterly unfair as you are only dealing with them as a consumer who is not an insurance expert.

BTW insurance contracts belong to a species known as contracts uberrima fides which requires both sides to act with utmost good faith.
It is possible to have made the mistake that you did whilst acting in good faith.
Liberty seem to be holding you to an unusually high standard.

The object of the exercise here is to get Liberty to retract their cancellation. As you have found out the cancellation itself is another material fact to be disclosed.
This, in turn, is having a disproportionately adverse effect on your efforts to secure motor insurance.
BTW this could also have an impact on future employment prospects if you were ever a candidate for a job that required you to drive as you will have to disclose this problem there also.

Even if Liberty retract and give you a gigantic "we don't want to do business with you" quote at least that misrepresentation issue is resolved in principle.
However, be very careful about this IF you succeed with Liberty. For future dealings I would disclose that Liberty cancelled due to misrepresentation but retracted that decision and make sure that you get paperwork to verify it.

It might be worth your while talking to the Financial Services Ombudsman's Bureau to see if they can give you any advice. Ask them if they will entertain a complaint from you over this matter. Technically, I think that you are required to press a complaint with Liberty first to a point of final decision whereby it is resolved or not. If resolved, happy days. If not, you may then have to make a formal complaint to the FSOB. It would be useful to inform Liberty that you have taken preliminary advice from the FSOB if only to show that you are not going away. FSOB / FSOP link https://www.fspo.ie/

All said, I think that you will have great difficulties in getting this resolved favourably. However, given what is at stake there is justification in trying to get it resolved.

jimmycrackcorm

I'm confused how liberty could cancel given they should require your ncb prior to issuing the policy

coylemj

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I'm confused how liberty could cancel given they should require your ncb prior to issuing the policy

It probably makes sense commercially - grab the OP as a new customer in case he goes elsewhere but they can cancel the policy at any stage if there's any issue with material facts.

Which allows them to provisionally accept you as a customer and then dump you if you can't produce the NCD paperwork to backup what you said on the proposal form.

TallGlass

It's very odd to think, someone would lie about a NCB, then proceed to send said NCB with a blatant error on it.


I don't see how it's nondisclosure, your disclosing your NCB to them? If you sent them on over a fake NCB or something.

wirelessdude01

OP, sorry how didn't you know the claim was from 2016? Makes no sense.

Eggs For Dinner

TallGlass wrote: »

It's very odd to think, someone would lie about a NCB, then proceed to send said NCB with a blatant error on it.


I don't see how it's nondisclosure, your disclosing your NCB to them? If you sent them on over a fake NCB or something.

As explained previously, your NCB and your previous claims history are 2 separate and distinct things. You can have a full NCB with previous claims if it was protected

Ush1

wirelessdude01 wrote: »

OP, sorry how didn't you know the claim was from 2016? Makes no sense.

I genuinely didn't remember and assumed because my NCB was for 5 years that I must have claimed longer than 5 years ago. I now know that's not how NCB works. You can have claims and still have a no claims bonus, seems a bit of a misnomer.

Eggs For Dinner

Ush1 wrote: »

I genuinely didn't remember and assumed because my NCB was for 5 years that I must have claimed longer than 5 years ago. I now know that's not how NCB works. You can have claims and still have a no claims bonus, seems a bit of a misnomer.

The whole NCB system is outdated and stepback, introductory and protected schemes have turned it in to a farce

NUTLEY BOY

Additional thought.

I was discussing this type of scenario with someone who has the happy job of being involved with compliance in a bank She thinks that outfits like insurance companies are regulated by the Central Bank and that there may be codes of conduct that might cover the OP's situation. So OP might contact them to see what help they can give.

I don't really know what they do but would Insurance Ireland be of any assistance to OP ?

Ush1

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

Unfortunately, the legal position with disclosure of material facts is quite strict.

You may have been unfortunate in that you seem to have asked the previous insurers the 3 year question but that was not what they answered.
Specifically, you seem to have asked them about any incidents within the last 3 years and they answered that you have 5 years no claims discount.
This was not the answer to the question posed as, properly speaking, those are distinctly different matters.

Therefore, you appear to have acted under a basic misapprehension of what your previous insurers told you - aka simple mistake.
The full facts were disclosed when you sent Liberty the statement of NCB.
Did they think that you thought that they would not notice that fact :rolleyes:

I would go back to Liberty and argue this point out on the basis that this is a matter of basic mistake as distinct from deliberate misrepresentation.
I would complain that their attitude is unreasonable, overly technical and utterly unfair as you are only dealing with them as a consumer who is not an insurance expert.

BTW insurance contracts belong to a species known as contracts uberrima fides which requires both sides to act with utmost good faith.
It is possible to have made the mistake that you did whilst acting in good faith.
Liberty seem to be holding you to an unusually high standard.

The object of the exercise here is to get Liberty to retract their cancellation. As you have found out the cancellation itself is another material fact to be disclosed.
This, in turn, is having a disproportionately adverse effect on your efforts to secure motor insurance.
BTW this could also have an impact on future employment prospects if you were ever a candidate for a job that required you to drive as you will have to disclose this problem there also.

Even if Liberty retract and give you a gigantic "we don't want to do business with you" quote at least that misrepresentation issue is resolved in principle.
However, be very careful about this IF you succeed with Liberty. For future dealings I would disclose that Liberty cancelled due to misrepresentation but retracted that decision and make sure that you get paperwork to verify it.

It might be worth your while talking to the Financial Services Ombudsman's Bureau to see if they can give you any advice. Ask them if they will entertain a complaint from you over this matter. Technically, I think that you are required to press a complaint with Liberty first to a point of final decision whereby it is resolved or not. If resolved, happy days. If not, you may then have to make a formal complaint to the FSOB. It would be useful to inform Liberty that you have taken preliminary advice from the FSOB if only to show that you are not going away. FSOB / FSOP link https://www.fspo.ie/

All said, I think that you will have great difficulties in getting this resolved favourably. However, given what is at stake there is justification in trying to get it resolved.

Thanks for that.

I've lodged a complaint with Liberty and also went back to my old insurer. Old insurer requested letter of cancellation from Liberty so hopefully get that today and then they will look at quoting me. Old insurer seem reasonable speaking with them so hopefully can get it sorted today. All this hassle for trying to save a 100 odd quid!

Ush1

Update on this. The cancellation letter from liberty said the policy is void and that I must tell all future insurers.

Spoke to my old insurer and they said no bother, offered me a renewal price(about 50 quid more than their original quote). I took that and was happy but asked the fella on the phone would I have to tell future insurers about that cancellation and he said no because it was voided to inception so it's as if it never existed.

So I'm happy I got insured but confused also!

NUTLEY BOY

Ush1 wrote: »

Update on this. The cancellation letter from liberty said the policy is void and that I must tell all future insurers.

Spoke to my old insurer and they said no bother, offered me a renewal price(about 50 quid more than their original quote). I took that and was happy but asked the fella on the phone would I have to tell future insurers about that cancellation and he said no because it was voided to inception so it's as if it never existed.

So I'm happy I got insured but confused also!

Yoiks. IMHO that sounds like negligent and dangerous advice from the previous insurer :eek:.

The very fact that Liberty voided the policy is an unequivocally important material fact.
Technically, the voiding on an ab initio basis [back to inception] would be a natural consequence.

Why did Liberty take that step ?
They say that their action was based on non-disclosure and or misrepresentation.
Therefore, that position stands. A fortiori, you have had a policy cancelled for non-disclosure and or misrepresentation. I would regard that to be a serious material fact always to be declared in to the future.

On a positive note you have valid motor insurance from the old insurer and that must be a great relief as this could have become very messy.

In your position I would be most definitely pursuing the issue with Liberty to obtain a formal retraction of the cancellation. Otherwise, this will follow you.

Ush1

NUTLEY BOY wrote: »

Yoiks. IMHO that sounds like negligent and dangerous advice from the previous insurer :eek:.

The very fact that Liberty voided the policy is an unequivocally important material fact.
Technically, the voiding on an ab initio basis [back to inception] would be a natural consequence.

Why did Liberty take that step ?
They say that their action was based on non-disclosure and or misrepresentation.
Therefore, that position stands. A fortiori, you have had a policy cancelled for non-disclosure and or misrepresentation. I would regard that to be a serious material fact always to be declared in to the future.

On a positive note you have valid motor insurance from the old insurer and that must be a great relief as this could have become very messy.

In your position I would be most definitely pursuing the issue with Liberty to obtain a formal retraction of the cancellation. Otherwise, this will follow you.

Yep, he even asked me at the renewal stage have you ever had a previous policy cancelled and I said well yes the one we have spoken about and then he said oh yeah but that one doesn't matter. Thought it was strange.

Thanks for the advice, waiting for Liberty to come back to me regarding my complaint anyway.

Ush1

Just to bring this to conclusion, Liberty sent me an email after my complaint and recognised where I was coming from. They said as a token of goodwill they have changed the cancellation reason to insured request cancellation so as to not effect my quotes going forward!

Can't say fairer than that, fair play to them. Thanks for the advice everyone.

TheAnalyst_

From what I can tell from this, no claims protection schemes essentially tie you to the same insurer if you ever actually do make a claim.