Near Misses Volume 2 (So close you can feel it)

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118787710#Comment_118787710

Think I would have held off behind the black car on that one. Indicator on and light red anyway (assuming you were going ahead and there wasn't another cyclist on my wheel).

Damn right I'm taking the lane on the way up as well.

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118793671#Comment_118793671

Yeah don't disagree that there was nothing (legally) wrong. Just my read of the situation would be that's it's better to hold off for all concerned. i.e. having seen the signal, I would have given them priority and not have a situation develop that could have been avoided (initially the car had the option to avoid it and they passed up the opportunity. Second person that was able to avoid it was the cyclist).

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118792619#Comment_118792619

Where did you get 'aggressive approaches' from? You know there's a difference between aggressive and assertive?

Is there any other course in life where people are allowed take selfish action to endanger your safety and ultimately your life, and you're supposed to just tip your forelock and say yessir nosir to the nice man in the Audi, because you don't want him to take offence?

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118795935#Comment_118795935

You have also said you do it for things that are nothing more than an inconvenience, and although they maybe inconsiderate, that's all they are.

If you're going around ready to be assertive at every perceived offence, I think you're part of the problem personally. There are levels. You'd also want to be certain, you're bloody perfect in everything you so.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118793745#Comment_118793745

I too miss the old boards interface, this one is a PITA. Anyway, my point, that I put in laymans terms was that the SI you refer to says the following:

(i) has signalled an intention to turn to the left and there is a reasonable expectation that the vehicle in which the driver has signalled an intention to turn to the left will execute a movement to the left before the cycle overtakes the vehicle,

I would argue that the indicator came on at such a time that there was no reasonable expectation that the vehicle in which the driver has signalled could execute the movement. The key word is reasonable. It isn't a case of whether they could or could not but that word reasonable. If any vehicle is overtaking you and you only indicate as they reach your back wheel, since by virtue of overtaking they are going faster than you, there is no reasonable way to execute a movement. You can move but not reasonably. In laymans terms, and it has been bore out in court cases between motor vehicles from memory, what this really means is that they should only move if they can complete the maneuver before the overtaking vehicle gets to them.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118796419#Comment_118796419

Yeah if you threw the indicator on at the last minute and suddenly pulled right into lane 2 etc and took out a car there would be no question of blame imo but do the same to the left and take out a cyclist in a bike lane??? I'd not want to gamble on the Judge that day in court or the Gardaí taking my side tbh.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118796526#Comment_118796526

One of the main reasons I now have a camera and know a good solicitor.

DaveyDave

If a bike track isn't a separate lane then you could argue the car shouldn't have passed the cyclist? Motorists should have an extra duty of care when turning left because they see the cyclist ahead of them. Grinds my gears when someone cuts you off on the bike by going left as they have to pass you to do it which means they see you. No excuses.

In saying that, professional drivers like taxi drivers should have an extra duty of care but they don't...

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118796419#Comment_118796419

Ah come on, the black suv had the indicator on in plenty of time for the cyclist to see it!! Rewatch the video and you'll see how long the indicator was on.

If I was the driver I would have waited but equally if I was the cyclist, I would have given way.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118796717#Comment_118796717

Video has disappeared for me but (and I could be wrong), the indicator only comes on when the cyclist is about 1m away from the rear tyre. Like I said disappeared for me but memory says it was one of those indicate as I turn rather than before I turn moments. As an aside, how much time is plenty of time? I know from when I learned to drive that barring unusual circumstances you would be expected to indicate well in advance of a junction.

BTW, I agree with you, I'd have probably pulled right of the vehicle out of expectation of the stupidity but on the same note, I would not expect every cyclist to recognise the blind ignorance of the expected by some drivers.

MacDanger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118796725#Comment_118796725

From this it looks like the indicator is on before the cyclist has passed the silver car which for me is enough time to slow down (the lights are red anyway so what's the rush)

IMO the OP is cut from the same cloth as many of the asshole drivers we all know, he just happens to use a different mode of transport

DaveyDave

In fairness, things look really bloody obvious when viewing cam footage as you're looking for something to happen. I used to make dashcam videos a few years ago, a lot of stuff on video wasn't as bad as it seemed in real life. Someone pulling out from a junction is obvious from a mile away on video but in person you're looking at the clock or checking a side mirror for example.

My first 4-5 years on the road were on a bike before driving and it helped me with reading people on the road and you can almost predict what other road users will do but you still miss things from time to time. As cyclists most of us would hang back when a car is indicating left like that but I'd say I've done the exact same at some point in my life, probably glancing at the Garmin or something.

If a bike lane just a track within a lane and a cyclist shouldn't pass on the inside then surely a car shouldn't pass the cyclist either?

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118796735#Comment_118796735

So about 3m warning (and that is being generous) but lets say 5m to make the math simple, looks obvious in hindsight. At 20kmph which seems a normal enough (if not slower) speed, that gives less than 1 second to acknowledge, react and decide. Videos are wonderful but they take away the reality. It reminds me of that movie Sully where they tell him he could have landed the plane safely. His response was brilliant, they took out the human element. I am not saying the response or reaction was correct but it certainly wasn't wrong. He shouted to alert them, went with the corner. You say stop but his reaction had the same affect, no one got hit, and it had the added benefit the driver might use their mirrors the next time.

magicbastarder

Yeah, if you're watching a dashcam video on youtube you know something is about to happen so you're primed to react. you're not allowing for the fact that the driver, or cyclist, or whoever, could be checking their mirrors or looking elsewhere for a valid reason.

km991148

If you are talking out loud about what the car is going to do you have time to react.

Besides..I'm probably not even behind the black car in that situation but behind the silver one it's obvious the are turning left and it's a red light ahead anyway.

Don't need to be Poirot to anticipate what's going to happen in that situation.

Good exercise to learn from tho (as I think a good few folks could be doing with tbh).

magicbastarder

again, though, watching videos in this context, you're looking at the video in a post hoc situation. if it's being posted here, for example, you can probably guess someone has done something stupid in it. so an 'oh yeah, it was obvious he was going to do that' is an easy conclusion to make.

less so when you're out on the bike, you're not going to be able to anticipate everything and you can't brake to a halt every time there's a whiff that a driver may or may not have seen you. so you keep going but give yourself room for manouevre.

if i carried a camera around with me, i'm sure some videos i could post would look as if they were reckless on my behalf, where viewers could say 'you idiot, that was close' whereas my reaction would probably be 'yes, it was close and not actually a hit precisely because i was paying attention.'

(i'm not talking about any specific video above, to be clear; just thinking out loud)

km991148

Yeah for sure, in general YouTube hindsight is wonderful. Also don't forget the distortion of the camera too. Often you can see more or it appears like there was more information available.

On that specific video tho, not trying to be a smartarse or anything, it was posted and comments were asked for. Since it's up I would say to anyone if you recognise that situation and your own path ahead is blocked (red light, other traffic etc) then just hang back. The cars will clear quicker and everyone will get on their way a bit quicker and smoother and stress free. Isn't that what we should all be aiming for?

TheChizler

In one of the recent traffic laws posted yesterday there was one saying a driver should yield to all other traffic when moving off from a standstill, I'm not sure how that wins out in conflict with the bicycle specific rules, but one to consider in the overall context.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118797755#Comment_118797755

Experience would teach me there is as much chance of them skipping traffic up the bus lane as there is of turning left. I'd still go on the right but that's just me.

magicbastarder

much as it pains me to retweet the sun:

https://twitter.com/TheSun/status/1505325747375943685

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808455#Comment_118808455

F me! Good reactions to go right rather than left or stop.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118808455#Comment_118808455

If that's Ireland, HIQA will be all over that.

Shotser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118809981#Comment_118809981

Health Information and Quality Authority (HIQA) is an independent authority that exists to improve health and social care services for the people of Ireland. Basically they regulate residential care facilities and have a role in researching and advising on health information and health technology. This incident would be for someone else, RTA or HSA maybe?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118813132#Comment_118813132

Your right, I should have said HSA, not HIQA

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118813266#Comment_118813266

I wouldn't have much trust in HSA taking action. If you make a a report, they are at pains to tell you how they can't give you any further information for confidentiality reasons. It is very rare that you hear in the news of them taking serious action.

Weepsie

The larger punishments make their own website as press releases. Everything else goes into their annual reports.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118813745#Comment_118813745

Inspections and complaints are only mentioned at summary level in the Annual Report. There is no detail on the nature of complaints, how many were investigated, how many led to site visits, what were the main areas of complaint - nothing actually useful.

Two things jump out from looking at the convictions listed;

1) Their unwillingness to name individuals, even when those cases have been heard in open court and completed with convictions and fines.

2) The number of investigations that came about following workplace deaths. Horses and stable doors spring to mind.

Pinch Flat

Ah Dublin bike commuting. Had my first quadruple over take on Wednesday last - me overtaking a slower bike, while a car behind me decides to overtake me - at 1.5 m in fairness, but he could have awaited the 5 seconds it took me to pass the slower cyclist. Not to be outdone, guy in Mercedes decides to overtake us all - 4 of us wide on the road at one point - he even used the opposite side bus lane to execute his amazon act of driving, all to get to a red light.

https://goo.gl/maps/LsrvcHYt9K7DL8Dx9

Weepsie

Now it wouldn't be a cycle through castleknock without that happening

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817477#Comment_118817477

A lot of people just dont look that far ahead.

Effects

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118817597#Comment_118817597

And drivers are tuned to just get past a cyclist asap, no matter what's ahead of them.

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118819043#Comment_118819043

I see "must get ahead" syndrome in all road users tbh. But in general its just not reading the road ahead - the keystone that most good road use should be built upon.

DaveyDave

Even if she didn't see you stick the arm out going through a roundabout WITH a cyclist is one of the dumbest things people do. Really shows that people just don't acknowledge cyclists on the road when they pass you like you don't exist.

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118824319#Comment_118824319

Absolutely.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118824355#Comment_118824355

And 100pc on the must get in front.

The only question tho (and I'm not having a go here, I know it sounds like I do):

When you realised you were dealing with maximum stupidity, why go round the roundabout with a moron?

To me (and yes, only a short clip from a cam, angles may vary etc) I would have hung back. Been annoyed at the nonsense of course, but hang back and let them get on with it.

CramCycle

Even on a quiet road, take the lane at a roundabout, its just not worth it not too.

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118795935#Comment_118795935

And, let me guess, you are the authoritative judge as to the difference between what constitutes assertive and aggressive?

Again, do what you like, I just hope I never meet a motorist shortly after one of your dealings with them.

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118824133#Comment_118824133

I always take the lane when going 'straight' or 'right' at a roundabout, but in fairness that hasn't stopped drivers from undertaking me on the roundabout itself when taking the same exit as me. Mind boggling stuff. Thankfully rare enough.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118824902#Comment_118824902

You don't need to take my judgement on the difference between the two. That difference has been well documented over the years;

https://thriveworks.com/blog/assertive-vs-aggressive-whats-the-difference/

There's no aggression in any of my contacts. No swearing, no shouting, no threats of violence. Just simple communication with another adult to let them know that their behaviour was dangerous and I'd suggest that they don't do it again. Do drivers have some kind of magical immunity to such feedback? Have we let drivers bully us into submission like the victims of an abusive relationship?

It's long past time to stand up and act. Make it socially unacceptable for drivers to endanger the lives of others.

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118825607#Comment_118825607

Exact same. Well except I call it a kerb because I'm not American :D

I take most roundabouts like a car would. That way there is more chance of being seen. It also mean I'm not making "two lanes" out of a single lane round (when unmarked - i.e. I know there are some roundabouts with cycle lanes marked, but they get ignored too).

km991148

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118825647#Comment_118825647

No it doesnt - I only comment on these things to share experience and maybe someone learns something (or I learn something from others)

MangleBadger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118824957#Comment_118824957

I once had a white van overtake me on a roundabout by going around it the wrong way. Granted it was a painted roundabout but still moronic.

magicbastarder

two in the space of 200m today - came in to balrothery from man'o'war direction, and at the junction where you'd take a right to go to ardgillan, a woman coming from that direction pulled out on top of me. i ended up bellowing twice at her, first as she did that, and then as she called out the window that she didn't see me, i realised she was driving with one hand on the wheel and the other holding a disposable coffee cup. so i gave her an earful over that too.

200m later and a guy in a black prius did the exact same thing to me, he came out from the left, the road near the back of the pub.

and to cap it off, albeit not a near miss for me; a couple of km later, heading into balbriggan, a motorist probably 100m ahead of me (there were three or four cars between me and this joker) pulled into the side of the road at roughly where the filling station is - and immediately indicated right and swung out into the road to do a u-turn. the guy behind had to brake hard to avoid hitting them.

magicbastarder

christ, something about the sun must bring it out.

heading along here

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4903775,-6.3353301,3a,75y,88.01h,77.99t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sRhtE3RZaNDgb2G9awv1UZw!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

i knew there was a HGV of some sort behind me and my first concern was - as he started to overtake - that it might be one about to take a left in front of me, a lot of HGVs head up that road. but it was a grab truck going straight on in the swords direction.

however, as he was passing, i heard some shrill beeping, and just as he passed, there was a guy on a motorbike (with a pillion passenger), front wheel gone off-road, legs akimbo, bike at a weird angle, desperately trying to steer back to some sort of semblance of balance. i'm astonished he managed to keep the bike upright, i was certain they were going to wipe out.

i reckon the guy in the grab truck was focussed on getting past me and when he saw a clear spot, went for it, but hadn't copped the motorcyclist had already begun to overtake. stupid place to overtake anyway, that close to a crossroads.

bazermc

Thanks to the pr**ck who was within a second of left hooking me after he decided it would be ok the over take me and immediately pull into the car park at Ticknock this morning. It seems also indicating has gone out of fashion

Mountain bike on the back of the car aswell. Strange one. I would have thought he/she would be more tolerate or perhaps an extra 10 seconds of mountain biking was more important to him/her. Probably only took up mountain biking when he/she realised they were crap at golf.

Paul_Mc1988

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118703078#Comment_118703078

Been a long time since I cycled to work from D12 to intel but this part of the journey was always the most treacherous.... buses loved to buzz me

mrcheez

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118842504#Comment_118842504

yeah, even driving around in my own car this weekend other feckin drivers were impatient and out of their heads... loons.

That jersey looks great btw... shame they're so pricey, be nice if Lidl/Aldi did something similar in their usual cheaper bike gear

TooObvious

Had a near death moment just after the Garda Headquarters as I turned off North Road towards Wellington Road in the Phoenix Park. Cars coming from the NCR direction have to yield at this particular junction, I was approaching from the other direction and had right of way. Needless to say a driver failed to yield and got so, so close to sideswiping me. Mitsubishi ASX fwiw, and the driver was playing with his phone.

Obviously this pissed me off rightly, what made it worse was no acknowledgement of wrongdoing or anything like that from this fecker. Hate to say it, but I gave chase, which must have looked stupid as I was on a Brompton, anyway I caught him down at the exit onto Conyngham Road. He wasn't expecting me as he was back on the phone as he was pulling out. I whalloped the window and then proceeded with a one way swearfest argument whilst he refused to engage.

I hate that I reacted like that, but I'm only human.

magicbastarder

finding myself in this thread more often than usual recently.

i took the left at the junction here, and as i started the turn, the cock driving the BMW behind me decided to floor it to pass me - even though he was *also* taking the left. i think he overcooked it slightly as he actually was briefly swung in on top of me. i let out a rather healthy and profane bellow and he stood on the brakes - there was no way in hell he could see if there was any oncoming traffic as he took the left (there wasn't, thankfully) but what a bizarre place to attempt a pass. dangerous and illegal.

https://www.google.com/maps/@53.4915128,-6.2849137,3a,75y,22.05h,96.52t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sg1FiV6Eq39C-hdZWqTNo8w!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118887914#Comment_118887914

Fyi, you can request a copy of any videos that have you in them, so feel free to submit a GDPR request to them. If you do, make sure to ask for video from all cameras incase there are multiple on the bus

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118887914#Comment_118887914

Got to AGS, DB are incorrect here. They don't give a sh1t. Its assault with a deadly weapon. For every few 100 good drivers you have the few, and they are rare, who really make it an awful experience to cycle. A friend who drives for DB and also cycles was telling me he wouldn't wear the DB Hi Vis he has if he was cycling to work as there are a few who'd skim him to wise him up to not cycling. Absolute insanity.