Near Misses Volume 2 (So close you can feel it)

Kaisr Sose

That's an awful decision by the judge. It's not possible to get closer and not deflect or hit the cyclist. That the driver said they knew who the cyclist was means or implies they intentionally made no effort to overtake safely. A law of 1/1.5m is no use if not backed by robust enforcement.

I posted a pic of a car that deliberately skimmed me back in Feb. The pass was close but not as close as in Cork. I received a notification from AGS that the inspector recommended a FCPN and 2pt for driving without due care. The driver has the right to appeal and maybe what happened in Cork will encourage them to roll the dice. Before the Cork ruling, I would have thought the driver mad to challenge it in court but not now.

Decisions like those in Cork, and additional comments by the judge and defence darrister about the cyclist, only serve to encourage motorists to challenge similar FCPN. The judicial system has just made a joke of the min distance (safe passing) legislation.

A heirachy of road users like those introduced this year in the UK is needed in Ireland to clearly put any ambiguity on blame on behalf of vulnerable road users to bed. Saying a cyclist was in the middle of the road (primary) should not mean a cyclist forfeits the right to be overtaken safely, at the requisite distance.

The judge here should be sent on a drivers awareness of vulnerable road users course. It would be of enormous benefit to them in terms of ruling on these cases.

Kaisr Sose

I refer to the guidance of 1m in a 50kmph zone and 1.5m in an 80kmph.

I know distance is difficult to prove but there has to be some definition of what makes a pass unsafe. It cannot be left ambiguous. Barristers will love that. Define inconvenience and it will be different things to different people. The Road Traffic Act is a joke of an act anyway. Its long due an overhaul. Maybe is will be after the rail link to Dublin Airport is built. 😁

And of course, some councils have bike signs with 1.5m underneath. Are these as meaningful as the speed limit signs that motorists cannot see/read/decipher?

magicbastarder

I know distance is difficult to prove but there has to be some definition of what makes a pass unsafe. It cannot be left ambiguous.

the problem is that in general, the law would have not removed the ambiguity as it places a specific measure on what is illegal or legal, with no way to determine for certain if that specific criterion was broken. and in many cases, i suspect might make it easier for drivers to avoid prosecution.

one way to look at it - let's say i swing a hammer at you. if the law states 'you shall not use a hammer in a dangerous or intimidating manner', it's probably trivial to conclude i've broken it. but if the law states 'you shall not swing a hammer within 30cm of someone's face', now there's a burden of proof that i did in fact come within 30cm of your face. and also makes it implicit that it's OK to swing the hammer 31cm from your face.

Kaisr Sose

Yep.

Had one on Monday, Oncoming car, continuous white line, car speeds past me in a 50 zone, and close from behind. Oncoming car has to stop and it beeps at overtaking car across the white line. Irony is ights are red 100m upahead. No other cars on coming. Could have waited with no impact. I get there and he is first car.

I engage driver and ask them to please slow down and not overtake close. He said he was driving quite safely but had to speed up to overtake me due to the oncoming car. I left him in his perfectly warped reality. It would be pointless to begin explaining to him what is wrong with his version of safe or considerate.

tnegun

A couple more examples of the aggressive driving first clip I collected my son from his friend's house so he was cycling on my inside with his school bag on his bag and the driver decides to pass us this closely and then contrast it with the perfectly executed pass from the second car.

https://streamable.com/t7zg77

This ass hat this morning was on my rear wheel approaching the red light then the light goes green and I sense him going for it so moved left to avoid being side swiped, he couldn't wait 2 seconds for me to clear the pinch point. He then pulled into a site 200m up the road!

https://streamable.com/jcicr8

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119151169#Comment_119151169

I like your line on the road. Looking at your first clip, the second car overtaking is what I typically see nowadays by adopting a similar line. Still get the odd honk but on balance, vastly safer.

I think the field of view of your camera make both of the bad passes in your vids not look as bad as I'd imagine they were.

tnegun

100% if I have any of the kids with me I'm taking the whole lane and coaching them to stay out of the gutter. Both cars I could have touched without extending my arm I must figure out how to put the tramlines on the video

DaveyDave

Not me but I was driving home on the R149 from Clonee direction on Thursday evening, some clown in a jeep tried passing a cyclist but ended up just going around the bend alongside the cyclist at the Stirling Road junction. Couldn't believe it.

I clocked the guy going just over 40kph while I was waiting to pass so he was going at a good pace. Traffic has been heavier than usual there recently, I wouldn't dream of going anywhere near that road at 7pm on a weekday!

tnegun

That looks like an amazing piece of software the plan view says it all!

TallGlass2

Bit of a vent, cycling into work this morning, waiting at a right hand filter for the light to turn green and as its about to change, I notice in my right hand side the van essentially moving forward to attempt to either A, right hook me or B cut me off, anyway I let him off, and just gave the 'what the ****' hands, to which I noticed then even the van behind was gesturing the same to me, like 'what the **** was that about'.

I have resigned myself to not interacting with morons but this one I had to have a word with what the **** he was at.

Anyway, a non aggressive interaction with the driver asking what that was about, to which he mumbled some words, and what was my problem. To which I replied my problem was 'I am waiting at the top of the lights and you just decided to cut me off', to which he replied, which is a new one to me 'Am I here to serve you?' to which I replied, 'No, but you can have some respect for other people'.

It won't happen again anyway, next time at that junction/filter, I will be taking the full lane, end of story.

I am also noticing a serious increase in the amount of cycle lanes blocked by trucks/vans, and I mean actually blocking them where it puts you in an awful dangerous merge situation. I think its time to hand over to the councils non intercept offences as AGS are clearly not able to enforce them.

I also understand that deliveries need to be made, but the clear lack of any logical thinking by the driver is annoying, the logic is 'I best not obstruct traffic but its okay to obstruct the flow of a cycle lane'. When actually the safer option and the less obstructive option is in fact to impede more on the flow of traffic than the flow of cycle traffic, as majority of the time, they are actually still impeding on the traffic flow, as an example, parked half in a cycle lane and half into the bus lane/road, so a merge situation is developed anyway for normal traffic.

VonLuck

I was coming down Patrick Street in Dublin and was approaching the junction with Kevin Street only to be met by a delivery van parked on the road blocking both a cycle lane and a left turning car lane! He decided that because the loading bay was occupied that he could just stop wherever he wanted and unload his van. Unbelievable that he thought the below spot was a perfectly acceptable location to park up.

Also, sometimes I need to turn right at this junction and for the life of me I don't know what the safest way of doing it is. There's a protected cycle lane up to this point and so the only opportunity to change over to the right filter lane is at the junction. If the lights are green I usually have to pull into the loading bay and wait for the lights to turn red so that the traffic stops and I can cross safely.

VonLuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119183193#Comment_119183193

Far from ideal as you still have to deal with traffic coming along Kevin Street, although there's more of a chance that cars are stopped if lights are green on Patrick Street. I wonder what a properly designed layout would look like here.

ARX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119156360#Comment_119156360

Exactly same thing happened to me at exactly the same place a few years back. It's a blind left bend (more than 90 degrees) and at that time the surface was in bits. Some clown in a jeep overtook me as I was going around the bend with about half a metre to spare (and half way into the oncoming lane). If there had been an oncoming vehicle I've no doubt the driver would have driven over me rather than collide with it.

At that time the vegetation was high and right up to the edge of the road, so there is no way the driver could have seen around the bend.

Another time I was going over the humpback bridge over the railway at Dunboyne and some clown overtook me completely on the wrong side of the road.

That one was unusual in that it was what is often referred to as a "boy racer" car. I always found drivers of those cars to be much more careful and courteous than your average driver (in Kildare/Meath at least).

TallGlass2

Regards Westland Row, last time I cycled that around November 2021 it was fully sticked up along the lane? Why did they back track? Not that it made any difference, you'd vans that would fit into the cycle lane and park in it. It would force you to take the entire lane used for traffic.

A Green TD over the transport ministry and he is pissing literally everyone right off, I feel at times your putting your life in your hands at times on the bike. The standard of driving is really really bad, let alone the utter contempt of law/rule breaking is something else.

Then the councils installing cycle lanes are just grabbing low hanging fruit where its not only already safe, they are actually making it unsafe with what they are installing.

ARX

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119183402#Comment_119183402

The first is the R149, the second is the L2228 from Dunboyne to Clonee. For some reason I find that the driving in Dublin 15 and the areas a few km to its south and west is noticeably worse than elsewhere.

Earlier this evening and not really a near miss but more a head scratcher over someone's lack of awareness. Car passes me on approach to a roundabout which was fine it's quiet and we're far enough away from it to be warranted. He then takes the 9 o clock and does a u-turn around the traffic island to come back out on to the roundabout and go around to go back the way he come from at 12 o clock. I was shaking my head and he gave me a kind of wtf was I thinking kind of shrug.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119182813#Comment_119182813

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119182938#Comment_119182938

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119183193#Comment_119183193

This is the impact of blocked bike lanes;

https://twitter.com/itskylelucas/status/1534979510218768399?s=20&t=EGhlTCOgiZ5wRLkEcXPKGA

VonLuck

Remind me - legally what can or can't motorists do with the various bike "lanes". I know there are different types of lanes, but are cars ever allowed to park in them, even temporarily? Sometimes I'm tempted to shout at people parked up in bike lanes but hold off in case I'm wrong and they're allowed to park out of hours or something.

CatFromHue

non mandatory you can stop in to load/unload if there's nowhere else free for 30 mins

mandatory you can't stop in.

tnegun

Car stopped indicating left with a wheel on the pavement here this morning blocking the bike lane, I signal to move out and to go around and while still indicating left they make a U-turn, I stop in the middle of the road and they tell me to have some patience!! I tried to explain they were blocking a cycle lane, parked opposite a white line and making a u-turn on the crest of a hill but it was all my fault! I cycled around them and then realized I hadn't turned my camera on! I'd a near miss with an An Post van 5 minutes later I'll review and see if its worth posting when I get home.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119196654#Comment_119196654

This, although some mandatory ones have operational hours which bugs me as much as non 24 hour bus lanes. Why do it? I would probably tolerate it if it was a city wide thing where delivery trucks could operate between the hours of 4am and 6am in them for delivering when it is substantially quieter but this idea that a bus lane is needed for driving at 7pm or a bike lane becomes unnecessary (Ranelagh for example) at very wide ranging times is nonsense.

tnegun

An Post this morning facing the wrong direction, opposite a white line on a bad bend, starts indicating as I'm approaching then pulls across in front of me then stops, to pull in on the wrong side again!! https://streamable.com/q6038b I'm going to send this to their fleet office for comment.

Seeing as we're talking about mandatory cycle lanes and their abuse, the silver polo straddled the lane for at least 1km as for the red car this is a common occurrence at this location usually saving just seconds if anything as there are lights at the top https://streamable.com/ykzxv6

VonLuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119196654#Comment_119196654

Mandatory = solid white line, non-mandatory = broken white line?

If that's the case, does that mean in the photo I posted earlier that the delivery driver was in the right?

magicbastarder

if you're in the cycle lane, based on the lights there, she has the green and you don't. if you're in the road, and in the lane the camera car is in, you're in the wrong lane for proceeding straight on. if you're in the road, you need to be in the right lane there for proceeding straight on, so if she beeped at you in that instance, she should mind her own business.

magicbastarder

i used to pass through that junction every morning when i went into work - always took the road, but it was usually quiet as i was outbound just after 7am. also, i was taking a right onto newtownpark avenue and wanted to claim my spot in the road for that.

CatFromHue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119199543#Comment_119199543

They can stop in the cycle lane, whether they can block the road is a different matter.

CatFromHue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200239#Comment_119200239

It does yeah.

I have to say the cycle lanes in Blackrock are great, they've made a huge improvement for both the cyclist and motorist.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200217#Comment_119200217

Is that lane not a left or straight ahead as dictated by the arrows on the road. Also, and people who frequent it more often can correct me but most times I have went there the left filter had a straight ahead with it at the start of the sequence or just a full (unfiltered) green. Only the right lane is right turn only.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201496#Comment_119201496

Maybe I am looking at the wrong picture but the one I see has a left/straight arrow in the lane, bottom left of the picture. This is the junction near St. Patricks Cathedral where you take a left to get over to Stephens Green right?

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201692#Comment_119201692

Yep, thank goodness for that, I thought I was going insane or everyone else was

magicbastarder

it's unusual, i'll give you that. i assume the design is such because it's uphill, and they didn't want to put slow moving straight on cyclists in front of motorised vehicles turning left (not trying to defend that logic, if i'm correct on it, btw)

CramCycle

Took me a minute to recognise it, presume that's the one near Dun Laoghaire. In theory it's fine provided everyone follows the lights but I can see how it would be easy to miss the bike ones if your used to bike lanes falling under normal traffic lights. I'd probably use the road, although I doubt many would as anytime I pass nearby (I turn at the junction before), traffic is heavy enough.

magicbastarder

just take the road and let it all hang out.

https://www.strava.com/segments/3438381

Seaswimmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201906#Comment_119201906

The only problem with it is that the phase between orange and red for the cycle lane is really short. slower cyclists (my wife for example) often struggle to clear the junction as you are also going uphill. You could go through on green and just about make it before the main traffic starts moving again. I did email the council about it shortly after the lights went in. It was on my daily commute but not anymore so I haven't checked it recently. Maybe it has improved.

VonLuck

After the comments here I ended up spending some time yesterday on my commute looking at cycle lane markings. The majority of lanes are non-mandatory, to my surprise. So what's the point if it affords cyclists no safe, unobstructed route?

VonLuck

So all this pent up anger at motorists pulling into non-mandatory cycle lanes has been misdirected. Should be pointing the finger at the engineers!

It will actually make my commutes a lot less stress inducing if I just tell myself that the driver is not in the wrong here. All those years of dirty looks at them were for nought!

hans aus dtschl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119205396#Comment_119205396

I don't want to be "preachy" at all, but if you add your voice to the many others who submit on public consultations it may help longer-term.

The designs being proposed nowadays are not perfect, but are often far better than what was proposed a decade ago.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119197961#Comment_119197961

It’s likely that I would have experienced a sudden bout of exhaustion immediately after passing the red car, causing me to slow down in the cycle lane.

DaveyDave

I don't cycle that slip road but drive it regularly. The amount of people hugging the curb blocking the bike lane because they want to turn left but they're stuck in traffic. What's with the recent trend of moving to the left of a single lane when wanting to turn? I've had people move into the bike lane to get around me as I'm moving right and speed up just to stop at the yield, I just don't get the impatience from people.

Don't get me started on people who move right immediately after the bollards and barely let you in when you're waiting to move over after the solid white line...

Squidgy Black

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119207239#Comment_119207239

It’s in the hopes that they can miraculously slip up the inside of the lane, despite the fact there’s zero chance of there being enough room. See it all the time in East Wall, single lane that has a filter light for left turn, so if there’s any car turning right they’re getting stuck behind it, but drivers insist on making sure they’re as far over to the left as is absolutely possible

tnegun

I've had several squeezes here where traffic starts to move off as you pass and then without looking they decide they can get by by using the bike lane. A bang on the roof usually sorts it out but you have to watch and be aware that it can happen at anytime.

Some of the worst are the people skipping the queue on the M4 by using the slip they'll try stay left using the bike lane if needed and try skip to the top of the queue at the lights to continue straight back onto the M4.

It makes it very dangerous for cyclists as they're deliberately not making their intentions obvious so that they don't get blocked off. All the while your trying to climb the hill, signal your intent to move right, look behind to ensure its clear/the driver behind is going to allow it and then the guy in front jams on blocking the lane to skip the queue!

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119211563#Comment_119211563

no damage to you hopefully?

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119212041#Comment_119212041

that beats all ever.

tnegun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119197961#Comment_119197961

It took me a little while to find someone in An Post to complain to, I didn't have time to try their live chat in hours so resorted to guessing email address and the way back machine to find addresses! In true Irish fashion, the response I got came from an address with an auto responder configured to say it was unmonitored!! That aside they couldn't have been more professional I got two calls to apologize one from the driver's immediate manager to say it was taken very seriously and was far below what was expected. I thanked them for the reply and said I'd be happy if they were shown the clip from my perspective and realized the dangers of their driving/parking.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119212705#Comment_119212705

That's great, it was dreadful driving

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119212675#Comment_119212675

After my own incident, can empathise with arriving over the handlebars. Funny how quick you can stop a bike at times!

magicbastarder

nowhere near the worst i've seen on the road, but yesterday a car came round a bend towards me about two foot over the white line, with the driver clearly bent over trying to find something on the seat beside him, or even in the footwell of the passenger side of the car, so very much not with eyes on the road.

the main reason it was noteworthy was i'm 90% certain it was my father in law.

Unrealistic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119231204#Comment_119231204

Mostly but not always. You can get lucky depending on the garda and his superior and their mood on the day. My written account with no video was enough to get at taxi driver a couple of penalty points and an €80 fine for a close pass before I bought a camera.

Unrealistic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119231442#Comment_119231442

I called TrafficWatch in the evening of the day it happened and they took all the details over the phone. Then I had a call from a Garda at the local station a couple of weeks later inviting me to come in and make a statement.

DaveyDave

Odd, usually traffic watch are great, take very specific details, very helpful etc and it's the Gardai that are useless!