Near Misses Volume 2 (So close you can feel it)

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209631#Comment_120209631

I think that's a great suggestion tbh

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209631#Comment_120209631

answering the question for myself; i would swing out and overtake the car on the right. unless i had clear eye contact or a totally unambiguous signal from the driver that yes, they are waiting for me to pass on the left, i would not pass a motorist indicating left, on their left.

as mentioned - the video was posted with no context, so we did not know which of the three options you outline were unfolding. that's why the first thing i asked was 'why did you proceed up the inside' but with no immediate answer, that question sparked the debate.

Weepsie

I genuinely don't this is a case of a driver bullying their way through. Lack of awareness yes, but that's on both sides. That's the last I'm saying on this.

I think there's an increasing amountof near misses that are not entirely the fault of the drivers in question and say a lot about an increasing amount of poor awareness on all parts. I too probably take the occasional risk I know I shouldn't

De Bhál

just your classic case of the cyclist known exactly what was going to happen, proceding on, maybe even increasing the speed a tad to make sure the near collision will happen, stopping then in a safe spot within slapping distance of the car boot. Cyclist put themselves in no danger but wanted to make sure driver knew they were wrong to turn across them as it might be an child or less experienced cyclist the next time that ploughs on oblivious to the danger the driver poses.

Most cyclists, especially city commuters will have done this.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120210265#Comment_120210265

Ok, what sparked my engagement to debate was your questioning of the behaviour of the cyclist, wrongly referencing a law which doesn't apply, while not mentioning the unlawful actions of the driver whatsoever.

It's fine to say what you would have done in this instance, but that doesn't mean that everyone else who doesn't do what you would do is wrong, and that's not what the law is, otherwise every schoolkid in the country would be told that they need to leave a cycle lane and swing out into the traffic if a car wants to turn left. As correctly posted above if this was a schoolkid without the experience and abilities of the OP who was subsequently injured the driver would be 100% liable. If anyone thinks they could rock up to court and make the same arguments posted here in an effort to reduce their liability then i wish them the best of luck.

As for the overtaking on the left law, it amazes me how often it's referenced like it's Gospel. It is so ambiguous it's not worth the paper it's written on

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058261340/official-meaning-for-flashing-amber-filter-light

This thread is a good read in relation to cycle lanes and overtaking on the left and might be the best place to continue any debate.

TheHouseIRL

Swinging out to overtake on the right wasn't an option, as cars I had passed seconds before would have been approaching from behind (which, to be fair, weren't shown in the video).

I also don't think it's correct to say that this was caused by a lack of awareness on both sides. I was aware of the presence of the driver and their intention to turn left. I was aware of the fact that they had passed me seconds earlier, I was aware of the point at which they had slowed to almost a complete stop and how it compared to the point at which drivers typically turn into those premises. I was closely observing the movement of their front passenger side wheel and took action to avoid a collision as soon as it became clear that they were turning across my path.

CramCycle

It took me a second watch to realise you had freewheeled just in case and were never in any danger as you knew it was a possibility. I think alot of the discussion between magic and standard could have been left aside with a more detailed description.

I have a set of pipes on me that would raise the dead, so I would have lit up as soon as he slowed, I never understood this overtake to stop and wait, it's a stupid move. I get it in the mornings coming through my local town, they overtake into three space I left to the next car and then sometimes I get really bored and put on a show as I freewheel behind them. It's childish and achieves nothing than make me calmer.

Anyway, hopefully you woke them up a bit but I am skeptical.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120213376#Comment_120213376

Of course there was going to be following traffic OP, the advocating of swinging out into traffic from a cycle lane from lets understand it Mods of the cycling forum, one of whom doesn't find any fault with the driver yet doesn't want to discuss it any further, and that this should apply to all users of a cycle lane is frankly bizarre and potentially dangerous.

magicbastarder

FWIW a mod doesn't have any greater or lesser or more trustworthy opinion than anyone else; the role is to police the forum. for example, mods are not picked for the cycling forum simply because they're good cyclists*.

*except for wheelieing. if you can wheelie more than 100m, you're automatically made a mod. 50m if you can do it one handed.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120213511#Comment_120213511

Welcome back.

I get that but at the same time i think it's reasonable to assume that posters are less likely to challenge a mod's opinion in a debate.

Anyway care to respond to my quote of your post?

magicbastarder

Welcome back.

???

i think i've said all i need to say, probably several times over.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120213670#Comment_120213670

I guess that's a no then

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209323#Comment_120209323

I always expect a car to do what that car did in those circumstances. Any amount of time commuting by bike in Dublin teaches you that. Which is why I'd not even have been on that crappy excuse of a cycle lane, even if some posters on here would consider me using the main lane as a 'd!ck move'. But it goes to prove my point. If I happened to be in the cycle lane for whatever reason, I'd probably have done exactly what the poster here did. If I'd been taken out by the car, I'd be raging, the driver would probably end up liable, but I'd also know that the accident was partly my fault.

No incident here, so the above is purely hypothesis and no great criticism of the poster from me. Nothing more infuriating than drivers like that, especially if you're carrying a bit of speed and momentum on your commute. Hand on heart, I regularly bully bad drivers out of continuing their bad driving in circumstances like that (as in, I'm in the right and you're not running me off the road just because your in a car). But there's only one winner when you get your judgment wrong. Which, again, is why I often just take the lane and if needs be (e.g. when I know a car behind is going to try a stunt like the driver in that video) take the centre.

Not the case in this video at all, but I often see cyclists bullied off the road by cars turning left or pulling out just because the cyclist is hugging the kerb. It's not easy when you start off, and again it'll be labelled a 'd!ck move' by some, but you can avoid a lot of these incidents (again not relevant to this video as poster was in the cycle lane) by being a bit more assertive (as opposed to aggressive) in your cycling.

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120213463#Comment_120213463

TBH, its coming across like your deliberately misunderstanding MB's argument. The counter argument could simply be made that you're arguing for cyclists in the OP's position to plough on straight ahead regardless. I know your not. Everyone who reads this thread probably knows your not. I think that from the OP's follow-up posts everyone now understands the position, but you're continuing to misrepresent what MB has said. From the very start of the discussion he made it clear that the driver was in the wrong.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120209323#Comment_120209323

The car is never stopped while on the road and while it has begun to turn. You can see the wheels move in the video, right up until the op is at about the rear wheel. Do you not slow to take a turn? Do you just swing in? I actually don't want to know, because its going around and around now.

And again, as paddigol notes, plenty of us have been in more than enough urban traffic to know what is going to happen there.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120214814#Comment_120214814

Apologies if it comes across that way, it's certainly not intentional. I just thought it was unfair to start by criticising the OP and say it was crap behaviour by both.

The OP was assertive rather than reckless imo but as Weepsie says we'll just end up going in circles here so i'll leave it at that.

munsterfan2

Just in case all you townies think we have it easy out in the sticks :-)

https://streamable.com/h6wasz

Squidgy Black

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120218913#Comment_120218913

That first one is just mind boggling, like what’s the point at all, you’re not even holding him up

Jakey Rolling

Dumbfounded today by this old wan who decided it was fine to swerve onto my side of the road to pass out a cyclist. And still not giving 1 metre space. I had to come to a dead stop to avoid collision. It's just the case that some drivers seem to panic when they have to deal with slow moving cyclists. Granted he was hugging the kerb, and may have discouraged this pass if he'd been more assertive and owned the lane. FYI, this area next to Cahir Castle is due to be redeveloped - the whole stretch should be made pedestrian priority, only a matter of time until some tourist is injured.

magicbastarder

In a weird turn of events, I just gave my number to a motorist in a supposed 'cyclist'/motorist collision, to support the motorist. He was pushing two bikes on foot and ran one at low speed into her car, which was stationary, then clearly demanded she get out to swap details. I was watching the whole thing from the bus stop across the road.

I rang the gardai because it was clear fraud, but they were not interested.

I was watching the lad with the bikes because I'm fairly sure he checked to see if the door of a delivery van parked nearby was unlocked, before he started the little charade.

DaveyDave

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120220711#Comment_120220711

Fair play, most people ignore stuff to get on with their day. Gardai don't like to be interested if it doesn't directly involve you as a victim I've noticed so hopefully the driver pursues it.

To this day I still remember the time I came off the bike at ~40kph once and landed off to the side at a junction of a housing estate and cars just drove past because I wasn't in their way. Had to crawl off the road and call my mam to come get me. I was more angry than hurt!

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120219659#Comment_120219659

You just know that the OP filtering past him at the lights got his goat up, so was determined to bully their way past immediately.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120220711#Comment_120220711

There was a dash cam video doing the rounds a couple of years ago, where a car was stopped at a junction somewhere in the city centre. Some scrote slowly cycled off the footpath, hit the car and collapsed on the ground. The occupants, who weren't shy themselves, started shouting at him that they had the whole thing on video, whereupon he made a miraculous recovery and walked away.

BoardsMember

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120221053#Comment_120221053

I think those are the 2 main things. There's nasty pr1cks and useless pr1cks. And then plenty of decent drivers.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120221061#Comment_120221061

Yep there are some who don't think they're doing anything wrong, and there are some who want to put manners on you.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120220711#Comment_120220711

Probably robbed bikes too.

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120221053#Comment_120221053

I think that's a large part of it alright... goes back to why hugging the kerb is a bad habit to start off on, even though for some new/ very casual commuter cyclists it may seem like the safe/ correct option. Bad drivers (in my experience) just take it as the cyclist accepting their inferior status and as an implied invitation to squeeze past.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120221924#Comment_120221924

i'd give it at least a 75% chance.

Wildly Boaring

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120222867#Comment_120222867

Agree completely.

That driver was annoyed you came up the inside and "got in his way". Made sure to give you an extra squeeze with the trailer as he passed. Very few people towing trailers about the place are poor at observation (with the exception of many horsebox towers).

And yep hugging the kerb also allows bad drivers to think they'll "fit" past you.

CramCycle

Had an N driver overtake me on a T junction just as I was turning right. Thankfully the road was wide enough I had loads of room to move out of the way but overtaking another vehicle midturn in the same lane. he had to cut the corner and then struggled to correct himself that he nearly hit the island in the middle of the road. In purely childish mannerisms, I called him a wanker as I rolled past, I imagine he was confused as to why but anyway.

Kander

https://youtu.be/NWkxIBRcg2g

Luckily its been awhile but I just had to post two useless must get in fronts driver I had in one day. Was able to eyeball the Jones Engineering driver for another 30 sec after the clip till I turned away to work.

https://youtu.be/4Jhs8WPDQBY

The line of traffic was visible from a long way back. No reason to this

*Edited with better links

VonLuck

I don't know if this counts as a near miss as it involved pedestrians, but I'd like a second opinion. I'm not sure if I was in the right or wrong!

I was cycling along the canal greenway and was at a section only wide enough for two people. There was a couple walking ahead two abreast and facing away from me. So instead of ringing the bell resulting in the inevitable scurry of them not knowing which way to move, I decided to cycle on the inside of them along the grass.

As I passed by, the guy started shouting abuse at me! I stopped and asked him what was wrong and he started to tell me to watch where I was going, that I nearly hit him and that I should respect people walking along the canal.

I thought I was doing the "right" thing by not ringing a bell or shouting at them to move as there wasn't a real need. And to be honest I thought you weren't supposed to walk two abreast when there's only room for two people as there's no room for passing.

I imagine he got a bit of a fright when he wasn't expecting a bike to pass him by and that's why he reacted that way.

What do you think? Was I in the wrong?

Wildly Boaring

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120264519#Comment_120264519

Did similar myself outside doing the school drop off this morning.

Gave the mother and daughter a cheery "Hello" as they took up the whole bike path to create 4 abreast across the path and bike path.

Scooted around the grass. Sure what harm.

Some people just want to be upset....

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120264519#Comment_120264519

Unless you were going by at speed I don't see the issue. I'd have no issue with ringing a bell though, and a friendly "on your left/ right" or a greeting as you pass can help too. Some people are just cranks who don't like cyclists though. Brother had a couple walking with their dog on a lead across the cycle path give out to him for cycling towards them the other week - apparently "he's a big boy now" and should have been on the road. This despite the fact that the road in question is a one-way lane and he was traveling against the flow of car traffic in a two-way/ two lane cycle path. You can only count to ten, shrug your shoulders and move on when you come across people like that.

DaveyDave

Assuming you weren't flying past them I don't see the issue. I've done it myself a few times on shared pedestrian/bike paths when they're ignorant to their surroundings. I slow right down as I'm on a road bike.

VonLuck

Maybe I was going a tad too fast and that's what spooked them. I don't normally go at speed, but there was a wind behind me and I seemed to be sailing along. I'll take it slower next time!

CramCycle

Buy more expensive wheels with a load freehub and coast up behind them so that a) they hear you and b) they know you are more important than them. Should sort out future encounters

Alias G

Just use the bell. They are intended for exactly these scenarios.

VonLuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120265611#Comment_120265611

I happened to be on my bike which does not (yet) have a bell. I always ring it on my hybrid.

Is there a bell you can get that you can put beside the gear shifters on a road bike? Part of the reason I don't have one on that bike is because the only ones I can find you have to position on the horizontal bar. I'd have to take my hand off the brakes to ring it, which isn't the most ideal or safest.

RoboRat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120221053#Comment_120221053

When I come to stopped traffic, I don't try and get to the top. I wait like everyone else in the queue until the traffic starts moving, and nobody has ever tried to squeeze by me. Perhaps drivers do think like that.

Squidgy Black

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120265926#Comment_120265926

Trigger bell, basically a bell with a cable tie like attachment so you can stick it around the shifter hood

VonLuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120266173#Comment_120266173

Excellent, thank you. All about getting the right wording to search for on Google!

Unrealistic

Thoughts on this pass from this morning, please?

Front view:

https://streamable.com/60vxcv

Rear view:

https://streamable.com/7toubb

I thought it was particularly bad but I know the people in the red car that came around the bend towards us, and I asked them about it this evening. They didn't even recall having noticed it.

magicbastarder

my first thought (and this is not blaming you, but i know it might come across that way) is that you should have been further out. dick move by the driver though.

Unrealistic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120267166#Comment_120267166

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120268340#Comment_120268340

Thanks both. This is part of a 1km stretch which has 5 blind bends, with 4 reasonably straight stretches between them, but which has a solid white line the whole way. I know that nobody is going to stay behind me for the whole 1km so I normally move towards the centre approaching the bends and move back into the side on the straights. It's mostly the same drivers every day, some are my neighbours and some are rat-runners. I like to think I'm training them to wait for the straights to overtake me (and others).😉

Yesterday morning I was further in than I would normally be at that point. Maybe because I didn't want to start moving out as the van was passing and I could then see the oncoming car and didn't expect the Ford would try to overtake.

I guess what I'm asking is what people's thoughts are on the likely outcome if I report this one to Traffic Watch?

Pawwed Rig

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120265611#Comment_120265611

Exactly. I have been teaching my kids to use the bell anytime they are passing people. It let's people know they are there

CramCycle

I wish bells were viewed that way by some, I have been threatened for using one in my youth so I just don't bother. I just freewheel a good bit out so they hear it coming, less shocking than a bell to someone not paying attention. Then a friendly thank you or hello as required.

CramCycle

Two near misses in the last few days. Neither involved me. One a car beside me sped up and overtook the cyclist in front of me and left hooked her right at the turn into the Frascati centre. Fair play to her reaction time as he didn't even get ahead of her when he turned in on her, she managed to react instantly and turn in with the car but it was almost ambulance calling time. Driver had 3 kids in the back and then started shouting at her as if it was her fault, claimed she came out of nowhere and he didn't see her (he overtook her and I was 30m behind and had seen her 50m before he overtook her). Next was a student driver turning across a delivery driver coming into the Clonskeagh gate of UCD. I was waiting to turn right but had seen the car and cyclist so was just waiting for them to go past when the young lad turned in late and hard. Again the cyclist reacted instantly and just missed his front wheel being taken out.

tnegun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120275738#Comment_120275738

I get mixed responses to using mine all the time and a lot of time with headphones in it doesn't matter. The best response was on the canal near Clondalkin I rang the bell approaching a group of youths and one instantly turned around shouting "Round 1 - FIGHT" squeaky bum time but thankfully he laughed it off with me!!

BoardsMember

I bought 4 bells the other day for the 4 cyclists in the house, will be interesting to see how it goes.