Near Misses Volume 2 (So close you can feel it)

DaveyDave

It's obviously just the "bad roads" in that clip. Nothing to do with dangerous driving. Or do we only use that excuse when it's a single vehicle collision with kids?

Shocking driving in that clip.

Mr. Cats

What kind of punishment though? If the OP hasn’t been called as a witness to a court case, what’s the worst punishment that the driver could have gotten? (just trying to understand)

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121058433#Comment_121058433

The oncoming truck is braking very very heavily, ABS fully engaged. I'd imagine he was empty or it would have been another story.

standardg60

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121060981#Comment_121060981

Agree if they took a formal statement it's being taken seriously so I'm not sure it's wise to be posting the video yet, the wheels of justice turn slowly.

DaveyDave

I've heard back maybe 50/50 from the traffic watch reports I've made. It would be worth the effort to call back to at least know the report went somewhere to keep faith in the system.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121061436#Comment_121061436

Not necessarily. After both parties have given statements, a file would be sent to the Inspector for a decision. The Inspector may well decide not to progress matters.

I had one Garda Sergeant telling me that he couldn't tell me the actual outcome of a particular report for data protection reasons, but he was assuring me that appropriate action was taken.

Schorpio

Just to clarify - I was told when I gave my statement that the van driver would get "3 points, maybe 5". So, my assumption is that points and a fine would be issued. A no point was dangerous driving, court, or anything of that vein mentioned. If the matter was issuing a FCPN, then that process should be over - unless the van driver challenged in court, which I would guess unlikely if they were presented with the video evidence.

I was also told that I would get a call to let me know how it panned out, and that would be in a few weeks. I didn't seek it (or feel entitled to it), but it was offered without prompt, so I would presume it's AGS policy/standard practice. That was over 6 months ago.

Thanks to everyone suggesting tweeting RSA, AGS, journos etc. Unfortunately, I'm not on Twitter/"X". If anyone on Twitter wishes to send on the streamable link with a link to my post, feel free.

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121061923#Comment_121061923

Unless you’ve a friendly Garda to give you an unofficial update, you aren’t supposed to get any updates unless you are the victim; potential breach of GDPR disclosing information about a potential offence by someone else.

CramCycle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121061436#Comment_121061436

I've had formal statements as a victim that went nowhere. A formal statement means nothing in regards Garda action.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062001#Comment_121062001

Its only a breach if they give any personal identifying information

Gdpr is an excuse for the lazy

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062183#Comment_121062183

Or if you give information about an individual whom you can identify - which they will argue is possibly the case in instances like this

lawrencesummers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121061923#Comment_121061923

On an near empty road you do 2 kmph over the limit, get your picture taken you get 3 points and a E160 fine.

Somebody getting “3 points, maybe 5” for that maneuver seems disproportionately low when its the exact type of behavior that puts people in coffins.

Mr. Cats

Thats it exactly - if you don’t end up in front of a judge for this, given how dangerous the manoeuvre was and the strength of the evidence, then there’s basically no real deterrent. Loosing your licence for a year or two seems more proportionate to me.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062233#Comment_121062233

Like what. Their licence plate? Which they already have. They can argue it, but it's not really a good argument. As I said, people use gdpr as a handy lazy excuse for lots of things where it doesn't apply

Schorpio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062263#Comment_121062263

This is it exactly.

We have been hearing so much the past few weeks about cycling- and motor-related deaths. Everyone agrees that the tragedies are awful, but there's a "it'll never happen to me" cockiness to so many drivers. That's why it's so important that near-misses cannot, and should not, be tolerated lightly.

Drivers cannot be reckless and just get away with it, or get off lightly. That's the zero-consequence mindset which leads to deaths and injuries.

It needs to be the case that if drivers pull these stunts on the road, they know that any dashcam footage will land them in front of a judge and off the road.

Schorpio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062501#Comment_121062501

Agree 100%.

As I said, I'm not friendly with the Guard I dealt with and I don't know them personally. The call was offered, and I accepted the offer.

Letting people know the outcome just seems like good policing to me. It would show that AGS actually do respond to reports and take action to try to make roads safer. It buys them goodwill in the community - something they sorely need more of.

magicbastarder

it's an interesting one; as a witness to an offence - rather than a victim - do you have a right to know the outcome? are pentalty points or other non-criminal offences considered a matter of public record?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062541#Comment_121062541

Part of the complication is that FCPNs and points aren't issued in Court, and therefore aren't on the public record, so if the Garda was to tell you that the driver of a specific vehicle had been issued with points, that is a potential GDPR issue. And yes, I know that GDPR is often an excuse, but this would be a legitimate concern. Having said that, I've had quite a few cases where Gardai told me exactly that.

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062501#Comment_121062501

Whether or not an FCPN has been issued is personal information if the person you disclose that information to can identify the other person. The guards cannot know for certain whether the complainant knows the alleged perpetrator or not, so they are under instruction not to disclose anything to avoid a potential complaint.

It doesn’t mean that they are right to do it, just that there’s a small risk that gives them a reason not to

Mr. Cats

The witness v victim, GDPR etc stuff etc is just a distraction. The issue is that points & fine punishment is not proportionate to the offence. For drink driving, it’s the potential loss of your licence + increased insurance costs + enforcement that has changed the behaviour. A similar approach is needed here.

With all the dashcam & video evidence available now, a small dedicated unit within the road policing division, backed up by the judiciary with consequential sentencing (legislation if necessary), could quite quickly change driver behaviour.

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062608#Comment_121062608

GDPR is about processing data and stored data, it says nothing about a Garda telling you about something they had personal knowledge of, if they were the one to issue the points for example. There probably is a separate internal policy restricting what they can say though.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062892#Comment_121062892

Integrity and Confidentiality is one of the fundamental principles of GDPR. A Garda telling you about points/fines issued to another person is a breach of confidentiality.

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062938#Comment_121062938

That link specifies those principles relate to processing data. A Garda telling you about an action they took is not processing data, maybe it would be if they had to go look it up if they weren't involved in the case. Apart from that, there are wide exemptions to GDPR for law enforcement activities.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121062988#Comment_121062988

A Garda telling you information about a case that they dealt with as a Garda is absolutely a breach of confidentiality, unless they had a lawful reason to do so. There is no policy or precendent to show that telling a witness about the non-Court outcome of a report would be considered a lawful reason.

Gardai are covered by the Law Enforcement Directive, a parallel instrument to GDPR with many of the same requirements.

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121063099#Comment_121063099

All that might be true but it's not GDPR which you originally said. Anyway I'm not interested in getting into an endless back and forth so I'm going to leave it there.

magicbastarder

is doling out information not 'processing' that information?

the two main words in 'GDPR' are 'data protection'. giving someone information they should not have is the cardinal sin of data protection!

anyway, it goes back to whether penalty points etc. are intended to be public knowledge. they're not doled out in a public fashion, and you can't exactly ring the gardai to ask if your neighbour has penalty points.

John_Rambo

A near miss of a different kind today! Stunning sunny day, lots out cycling when a male cyclist caning along at about 40kph towards Howth on the packed coastal cycle path in Raheny opposite st. Annes park overtook stationary cyclists waiting for the traffic lights to cross the road almost had a head on collision with cyclists coming the other way, proper speed wobble, he just managed to stay on board.

He was under the impression it was everyone else's fault. He didn't look very confident on the bike, beginner or maybe a new bike. Another cyclist called him Fred & told him to cop on!!

(I googled Fred & cycling - funny)

Schorpio

I have zero insider knowledge about GDPR, but what occurs to me is, just because you have the reg no., that doesn't mean you know who the driver was. So, if you were told that the driver of a car got points, knowing the reg no. doesn't tell you who that driver is.

Either way, I still believe it would be good policing to let someone know that something they went out of their way to report was taken seriously and actioned in some manner.

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121067068#Comment_121067068

The issue is that the Gardaí have no way of knowing for certain that you don't know who the driver was - or won't find out who the driver was - and have to err on the side of caution when it comes to disclosing anything that could end up being deemed a data breach.

blackwhite

GDPR is without doubt widely used as a smokescreen - the new "Helt 'n' Sayftee' as it were - and because it's so complex and the penalties so onerous, it can be hard to argue with

The last part is the reason that so many organisations take any extremely cautious line on disclosing any data as well. Because the majority of employees will not be GDPR experts, the ultra-prudent approach is taken in all policies, whether justified or not

TheChizler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121067184#Comment_121067184

Somebody better tell them and traffic wardens not to leave tickets on the windscreens of cars so, on the entirely reasonable chance that someone might know the owner of the car and find out they were fined 😮, seeing as the existence of penalties given to strangers is personal data now.

blackwhite

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121070253#Comment_121070253

There’s an exemption for the act of law enforcement

Telling other people whether or not someone else has received penalty points is not law enforcement

Liam O

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121065720#Comment_121065720

I used to be on that quite regularly and it's a bit of a mess in places. Lack of signposting of entrances to the cycle lane and people thinking they can go as fast as possible on it. I went onto it quite slowly before and a guy screamed at me (probably more my fault but he was barrelling along) but nothing to signpost that people may be entering the lane there.

Don't get me started on the bushes they have concealing the view of the entrance to the car park outside the bus terminal too.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121071581#Comment_121071581

It's grand if you're an observant & experienced cyclists but it can be dodgy when you have cyclists that don't slow down for small congregation spots like the bus stops & pedestrian traffic points or can't see obvious obstructions or judge the speed of oncoming cyclists before overtaking.

This was on a Sunday afternoon on one of the sunniest, warmest, windless days of the year. The cycle lane was busy with bikes, cargo bikes, kids on bikes, scooters and there were lots getting buses.

I can only guess this guy has a low IQ.

magicbastarder

five or six years ago, i was passed by a cycling club moving at speed in 2 abreast formation on the cycle path. gave them a good roar. mentioned it to someone else, and he'd had a similar experience with the same club.

Weepsie

Pretty sure we've all had that experience with the same club (probably).

Told to f*ck off one day because they tried bullying a load of folks out of their way.

CramCycle

Hard to tell by pictures, the video would be better. The bus is to close but to be honest, raising a grievance won't get you anywhere as, like you said, the slight fisheye makes it appear, to a layman, that you had enough space. This said, using your wheel as a reference rather than the shadows, I would say the driver is just under a metre, maybe 75cm at his closest, certainly way more than a foot judging by the pictures but at low speeds it wouldn't be a terrible pass. It certainly would be a better pass than most I get in the city centre.

John_Rambo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121071672#Comment_121071672

Red & Black livery? They, locally had a dreadful name for a while. Wealthy middle aged management types used to bullying people around. I believe they got a few good dressing downs from organisations and individuals and have had to clean up their act.

magicbastarder

nope, not clontarf; it was blue IIRC.

CramCycle

3 near misses yesterday, although one was 100% my fault (although the only one that wasn't really a near miss).

First one, coming along the Quays in Wexford, driver swung his door open as I was passing. Thankfully I'd given a decent bit of space but he got a fright as I skidded to a stop as he jumped out of the car while opening it (sort of looked like he was going to trip and fall onto the road). In the wrong town some drivers would have been giving out to me for being out in the lane (never happens in Wexford, at least not yet) but this is why it is done.

Second guy pulled out of the Maxol self service across from Aldi, never even looked my direction. My Spidey sense was tingling as I approached so had thankfully moved out to the centre line. He got a shock as he only looked towards traffic as he let up the clutch and I half skidded (shouldn't have braked as I would have been completely clear if I hadn't).

Lastly, the one that was my fault, turning towards Kilmore. Very little traffic and a driver starts blocking the road to let out a single car, even though there was no one behind him and no one oncoming, and if he had just taken the turn as he should have, everyone could have gotten through safely and in good time. Instead, the car down the side road looked at him confused, as in, what the f*ck are you at, get through the junction while you have right of way and it's quiet, so I too can progress. While this stand off took place I went the long way round, to hear the driver on the main road shout at the driver to come on (even though he was in the wrong) and the other driver just look at him with perplexion. A few minutes up the road the driver then rolled down his window as he passed me to give out about my dangerous manoeuvre (probably right). I said, 100%, I was totally wrong but you had the right of way and should have progressed so I got out of there before you caused an accident. He F'd me out of it and then drove on. His passanger was not impressed with him, and had the reaction of someone who was well used to the driver getting annoyed and knowing best.

LazyCycle1

Can someone please recommend a good bike camera? Two very near misses today (Limerick), both involving mobile phones. Firstly, outside Lidl on the Rosbrien Road, a car came across from the new houses to the supermarket entrance, driver looking at his phone on his lap, child in back (neither wearing seatbelts), how he missed me I do not know. Then, on the Shelbourne Road, a woman made eye contact, looked down at her phone and stepped out in front of me. I let out the biggest roar of my life and she jumped a foot in the air saying 'sorry sorry sorry '.

I'm 50, have cycled in London, Edinburgh and a few other towns and cities, but nowhere is worse to cycle in than Limerick. Everyone is on their phone, drivers and pedestrians, and it's like their brain stops working when they look at it. Also, everyone breaks the lights and cars are getting much bigger.

So, if someone can recommend a good bike camera I would be very grateful. Also, do drivers treat you differently if you wear one?

Weepsie

On my way to the new finglas library today, some dingbat indicating left at a roundabout but proceeds to go right and stop dead as they can't make the turn and then starts reversing.

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121076386#Comment_121076386

More fool you for expecting to see correct use of indicator on an Irish roundabout!

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121076477#Comment_121076477

It's one of those painted roundabouts, so it's really just a t junction that as this put on as it can get busy and probably has a history of speeding.

But basically someone trying a 3 point turn on a roundabout.

standardg60

Don't worry the new reduced speed limits will eliminate that sort of driving.

p15574

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121076488#Comment_121076488

Surely there must be an easier way to go around or something, to get to the previous junction?

Trekker09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121077235#Comment_121077235

Looks familiar! Where in Kilkenny is that?

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121083484#Comment_121083484

Surely, by logic, you're only a victim of a crime once someone has been convicted of that offence. Until then you're just a witness to a potential crime.

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121085447#Comment_121085447

We'll agree to disagree so.

Weepsie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121083962#Comment_121083962

It merely has to be an act which is a punishable offence, it doesn't have to be punished for it to be a crime. Crimes go unpunished every single day