M4 - Maynooth to Leixlip [planning and design underway]

markpb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118145840#Comment_118145840

That works well in Germany but it's not the practice here. Responders here use the hard shoulder on motorways and DCs, just like they use bus lanes on urban streets. They all have the same problems at junctions but they're still the best way to get past congested traffic for most of their trip. People YOLOing along in the hard shoulder because they can't be late getting in to update a spreadsheet in work are selfish a******s, nothing else.

KrisW1001

Any time I’ve seen emergency vehicles driving down stopped dual carriageways it’s been as I described - moving out onto the main carriageway and getting traffic to move over. On the most congested motorway in the country, the hard shoulder is barely 2 metres wide - not wide enough to accommodate a fire-engine. Maybe you could do hard-shoulder running on a rural motorway, but not on urban roads like M50 or N40 with frequent junctions and regular congestion.

The difference with Germany is that making this kind of space in stopped traffic is part of the rules of the road. Here, people move out of the way when they see the blue lights.

I’m not arguing that it’s perfectly fine for people to duck up the hard shoulder because traffic is slow; just countering the somewhat sanctimonious assertion that doing so is causing deaths by impeding the emergency services. It is not; it’s bad manners, but it’s nothing more than bad manners.

highdef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118145490#Comment_118145490

How is remaining on the main carriageway in heavy or standstill traffic a "greater evil" than using the hard shoulder/emergency lane as a self declared driving lane? Please explain with facts that support your claims, otherwise go away with your selfish and rather shocking statement.

Spiaire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118148283#Comment_118148283

Have you actually passed a driving test?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118148283#Comment_118148283

Using the hard shoulder is what is selfish (and dangerous and illegal). If you don't like being stuck in traffic, then leave the car at home. By driving a car you are increasing the volume of traffic.

[cue the grumblings of I need my car blah blah]

highdef

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118149381#Comment_118149381

Yes, I have passed my driving test, over 20 years. I knew then and I still know now that use of the emergency lane/hard shoulder as a driving lane (ie, using the lane as a means of getting from point A to point B in a non emergency situation) is a road traffic offence. It's also selfish, dangerous and announces to all those who abide by the rules that said driver is a self entitled prick.

The emergency lane is to used only in specific situations such as you have mechanical issues and need a safe place to park your vehicle whilst you wait for assistance, or possibly if there has been a traffic incident/collision and emergency services have instructed all vehicles to pull over and stop (and remain stationery) in the emergency lane so as to keep a clear path between the two (or more) lines of stationary traffic so that progress of vital assistance is not impeded.

Do you not agree with any or all of the above and if so, please explain your rationale as to why you think my comments are unreasonable.

Spiaire

Think we can get back on topic?

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118145840#Comment_118145840

We've got so many exceptionally poor driver educated/tested drivers in Ireland (plus a decent number that got licences by default) that something like this would take decades to drill in to enough peoples heads to actually work.

bennyineire

Any update or time lines on this project, seems difficult to fine

brianc89

Is this project seriously being considered? A classic example of induced demand. I'm entirely supportive of building new motorways and bypasses where needed, but widening motorways should be massively limited.

The M7 was justified given it links to multiple population centres in Midlands / South West and the motorway splits in 2 after Newbridge. But widening the M4 to 3 lanes is madness. It will simply fill up with more cars in no time.

highdef

In fairness, the M4 also splints into 2 motorways at kinnegad. Several large population centres are also served such as Leixlip, celbridge, maynooth, Mullingar, Athlone, Galway, Longford, Castlebar, Sligo..... To make just a few.

veryangryman

TBH I'd settle for this extra lane being a bus lane just to get the thing made. Fact is that even on a bus you can't get a clear run to the M50 from the Midlands or west. There's a definite business case and it that means needing to bend over for the greens then f it at this stage

maestroamado

I don't live in Dublin but considering we in climate mode at the moment would it not be better yo upgrade rail/bus system and encourage use of park and ride... is park and ride working well i Dublin... I think there needs to be a new road built between the Airport and M4 to take traffic away from M50 as pretty short route... also upgrade one of the existing routes between M4 and M7 but this may not be necessary if Airport traffic from M4 taken away...

bennyineire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118916380#Comment_118916380

4 responses but no answers and some gone off in a tangent 🤣, typical boards

spacetweek

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919833#Comment_118919833

This is still needed.

For the last time, road and rail solutions are not interchangeable. The solution to everything isn't more rail services. The M4 parallels the railway only from Dublin-Enfield, after that they diverge. So all N4 traffic entering Dublin from further out than Enfield will need more road capacity.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919833#Comment_118919833

Airport traffic is not significant enough to need a (hugely expensive) new road on that route; nor would that make ANY sense if you're trying to push public transport or climate stuff as the start of your post implied.

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118927691#Comment_118927691

Well its a lot quicker to do Airport/Lucan trip via R121 route than going round to M50... I am talking all times... what climate stuff....

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118927684#Comment_118927684

so its not working if not joined up rail/air/bus/road...

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118919323#Comment_118919323

Yeah for sure there are a lot of population centres on this route. I don't commute daily on this route but I travel home west to Galway on Fridays and in my experience the traffic flows okay (but quite slow) between Leixlip and Enfield. After this there are no traffic jams up to Kinnegad. In my experience it does not have the same level of traffic as the M7 (please correct me if wrong). The whole point about induced demand should not be ignored. It is a real and proven phenomenon.

As someone rightly suggests above, any additional lanes should be a bus lane. I personally know several people who travel by car daily on this route and there would be no justification for it, if a bus could wizz by traffic (on the M4) in half the time.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118920768#Comment_118920768

Someone answer poor Benny 😂

bennyineire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118928966#Comment_118928966

Thanks mate, another 5 tangent responses later FFS 🤣🤣

Fred Cryton

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118918679#Comment_118918679

"induced demand" has been debunked as complete nonsense. People like you would prefer we still had the potholed single laned roads through villages on the way to Dublin otherwise whisper it, we might "induce some demand". You anti-development Green spoofers need to be called out on your language.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938423#Comment_118938423

Can you point us towards studies that debunk it as complete nonsense?

Kermit.de.frog

I wouldn't be opposed to a bus lane as long as there is also an extra traffic lane and the hard shoulder is maintained.

So it will be three running lanes | bus lane| hard shoulder.

8 lanes + 2 hard shoulders.

The UK has learned the hard way what happens when you remove hard shoulders and replace with running lanes. They have had to stop "smart motorways" because of the dangers this created.

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118938423#Comment_118938423

😂😂😂 Gas!!!

People like you claim most scientists now agree that climate change is a myth and that there's no scientific evidence whatsoever. FACT..... As if using the word 'fact' makes it so. IT DOESN'T. I would love to see some scientific papers disproving the scientifically proven phenomenon of induced demand.

Also my post literally stated support for the M7 upgrade and you interpret this as a preference for "potholed single laned roads". Gas.

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940600#Comment_118940600

The M4 until the M6 diverge is exactly the same as the M7 with traffic both west and northwest being funneled in to just two lanes.

That's why it requires widening.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940784#Comment_118940784

Exactly the same except for the number of vehicles using it daily!

brianc89

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118940784#Comment_118940784

There are significantly more and significantly larger population centres on the M7 / M8 / M9 as compared to the M4 / M6. Open a map and this is abundantly clear.

The M4 / M6 split is 16kms further away from the M50 compared to M7 / M9 split. No one is suggesting / planning that we need 3 lanes all the way to Kinnegad. The proposed 3rd lane is intended to serve towns close to Dublin such as Maynooth / Celbridge / Leixlip. All of these are currently served by public transport and the idea of providing more road space to CARS will reduce traffic in short term but encourage more people to use cars in the medium to long term.

Give it 10 / 15 years and traffic will be back to where it is today. Widening motorways is sometimes the right thing, but I'm of the strong opinion it is a short sighted option for the M4.

brianc89

Kermit.de.frog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118941530#Comment_118941530

That's why we do something called future proofing. I know it's an alien concept in Ireland.