Mayo GAA Discussion - Part 4

irishgeo

jr86 wrote: »

Always_Running wrote: »

A very experienced team if Mayo start as named on the Con Telegraph. Only new or newish players are McDonagh,Carr and the Coen brothers in the starting 15. Seems like Durcan will miss just one match and Ruane,D O'Connor will likely see action in the other group games. After using the scenic route to get the last 8 Mayo now look primed and ready to attack the business end of the championship head on once more.

Coens are cousins - I assume first cousins?

Yeah was mentioned in commentary the last day.

km79

NO
Hennelly over Clarke
NO

I can’t be arsed even arguing any more

BandMember

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

I really don't get this. Hennelly had a great league, but...

Now that COC is back, he won't be taking any more long range frees if he was playing and better to play it short than take the very long range frees anyways which go wide a lot.

He often has a clanger in his locker which costs goals at crucial times in games.

His kickouts are not always vastly superior to Clarkes. Remember 2016 final when they want wrong several times with one leading to Keegans black card.

I have a degree of sympathy for Hennelly and Clarke. Its hard for one to get a good run as number 1 keeper but when you chop and change neither gets enough game time to be reliable. Better to stick with Clarke this year. Next year maybe go with Hennelly for the whole championship and only drop him if he's really poor.

I'd agree with you completely up until your last point - I see no reason why Clarke will not be available next year, so why go on about Hennelly for then??

Seriously, people here need to get past this non-issue: it's Clarke or we're going out of the Championship. Simple as.

Or, to put it in simple terms, THERE IS NO F**KING DEBATE!!! :cool:

charolais0153

Henelly is well able to shiit the bed kickout wise, mayo won't win Sam with Henelly playing I'm afraid

finisklin

charlie14 wrote: »

I`ll probably get slaughtered for even suggesting this, but if I was Horan I would be tempted to go with Hennelly over Clarke for this one.
The world and it`s mother know at this stage that Mayo have massive injury problems in mid-field plus now Durcan.
Kerry will most likely have Moran back in that sector and will not only be putting the ball from their own restarts in there, but forcing Mayo to do the same by pushing up on Mayo`s. Whatever about their backs, Kerry`s forwards are lethal fast and any restart to a Mayo back that is even slightly off target they will be on to it.

Shot stopping Hennelly is not in the same league as Clarke, but then neither is Clarke in Hennelly`s for restarts.

If the short kick out is intercepted then he his probably in a better position to stop a goal than Hennelly.



Appreciate that there is twisted logic in this. That's the nature of the Hennelly v Clarke debate. :rolleyes:

Carol25

charolais0153 wrote: »

Henelly is well able to shiit the bed kickout wise, mayo won't win Sam with Henelly playing I'm afraid

What simply needs to happen is a strategy developed for Clarke’s Kickouts. He’s strong under the high ball, saved penalties and goal chances and is confident as a keeper. Hennelly has had a lot of chances and I think he had has failed more than once at championship level I’m afraid. I say that as an admirer of his general skillset bar goalkeeping!

charlie14

PARlance wrote: »

Wasn't brave enough to suggest Hennelly starting but I did mention that Kerry will target our short kickouts. Someone suggested that they would play a sweeper so they wouldn't be pushing up.... but I just can't see them not trying to exploit them tbh. There's far too much game intelligence in Kerry for them to let us have easy possession from them imo.

Rochford had developed an excellent approach to Clarkes kick-outs when up against Dublin and their press. Can't recall the exact game but remember that we had almost 100% success in one of the drawn games. It basically involved a ploy of 6 or 7 us bunching up in the middle and then making predetermined runs.

We saw 1 glimpse of it vs Galway late on the last day and I don't think it worked. Will be interesting to see if it has been worked upon. One things is for sure, the better teams will see our kickouts as a weakness to be exploited.

After saving the peno, we gave away 2 quick points from kick-outs straight away. Clarke's strength and weakness in a 5 min spell.

I don`t know if playing a sweeper would be any benefit to that Kerry back line, especially against Mayo.
A sweeper works well in front of the back three for cutting out high or long ball coming in. Mayo play mostly a hard running game which leaves a sweeper more or less ineffective.From what I have seen of Kerry so far from this year and last is that their backs neither know how to tackle or support each other.
If they haven`t sorted that out, and from looking at their game v Cork, the have had a year to do so and no improvement.

For that reason I have a feeling, especially with Mayo`s injuries, Kerry will attempt to force Mayo to go long on restarts as their best option in preventing Mayo running at their back-line.
Breaking in predetermined runs can counter that, but again the keeper needs to get those spot on and tbh I would worry Clarke can do that to a high enough level.

charlie14

finisklin wrote: »

If the short kick out is intercepted then he his probably in a better position to stop a goal than Hennelly.



Appreciate that there is twisted logic in this. That's the nature of the Hennelly v Clarke debate. :rolleyes:

With what Kerry have up front if I was Horan I wouldn`t even entertain the possibility of them intercepting a short kick out. I would be looking for my keeper to hit his man directly as far away from goal as possible.

charlie14

charolais0153 wrote: »

Henelly is well able to shiit the bed kickout wise, mayo won't win Sam with Henelly playing I'm afraid

Under normal circumstances with a first choice mid-field and supporting players I would not even suggest Hennelly, but sometimes you have to look at horses for courses

PARlance

naughto wrote: »

The high ball in is what Kerry will do if hennelly is anywhere near the goal and he will sh1te his togs.
Clark has his weakness surecwith the kick outs but not to the stent that I would even consider hennelly.
Kerry prob will have a sweeper cos they will fear or forwards Cohen/Carr coc. Against cork they got cut open very easy hopefully it continues on Sunday

They tested him in the League final for sure, the underwear survived.

Clarke for me but I'm more in hope than expectation that we'll have a plan B for a high press.

MayoAreMagic

charlie14 wrote: »

With what Kerry have up front if I was Horan I wouldn`t even entertain the possibility of them intercepting a short kick out. I would be looking for my keeper to hit his man directly as far away from goal as possible.

Why?
We went short against galway and it worked well. We went long against armagh and we had to switch to short.
Kerry play sherwood as a sweeper, which means a free man, which means short kickouts. Also geaney and clifford arent going to kill themselves tackling fellas.

Re hennelly and his famed kickouts, they cost us the game against roscommon, so i dont see how his kickouts are better tbh. The long ones have a better trajectory, but we are short several starting midfielders so our fetching options are limited anyway. Its clarke all ends up for me...

charlie14

jr86 wrote: »

It'll be interesting to see does the non knock-out element make any difference

i recall the opening games last year being very much a damp squib.

For some reason i have a bad enough feeling about Sunday, but at the same time if we need a result against donegal I expect us to get it

There may have been a bit of thought last year that treated the first round on a league mentality, that by taking it cagey in the first if it goes wrong we still have games to make up for it.
The four teams last year from the two groups that lost their opening games were the four teams eliminated so I can see the attitude being totally different this year with first round games being hell for leather. Especially where points difference could decide who goes through to the semi`s.

charlie14

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Why?
We went short against galway and it worked well. We went long against armagh and we had to switch to short.
Kerry play sherwood as a sweeper, which means a free man, which means short kickouts. Also geaney and clifford arent going to kill themselves tackling fellas.

Re hennelly and his famed kickouts, they cost us the game against roscommon, so i dont see how his kickouts are better tbh. The long ones have a better trajectory, but we are short several starting midfielders so our fetching options are limited anyway. Its clarke all ends up for me...

I`m not saying that Hennelly should be considered as part of a Mayo plan to go long. What I am saying is that he should be considered because Kerry most likely imo will force Mayo to go long.


If Kerry are planning on going down that road they will not be leaving a free man available for short kick outs by withdrawing Sherwood to play sweeper, but will be looking to intercept them, or be on the Mayo receiver immediately with the speed their forwards possess for turnovers.

PressRun

Still no sign of an official team announcement?

BandMember

Team finally officially announced: https://mayogaa.com/news-detail/10053342/

seligehgit

1. David Clarke
2. Chris Barrett
3. Brendan Harrison
4. Keith Higgins
5. Lee Keegan
6. Colm Boyle
7. Stephen Coen
8. Donal Vaughan
9. Aidan O Shea
10. Fionn McDonagh
11. Kevin McLoughlin
12. Jason Doherty
13. Cillian O'Connor
14. Darren Coen
15. James Carr

Blackjack

seligehgit wrote: »

1. David Clarke
2. Chris Barrett
3. Brendan Harrison
4. Keith Higgins
5. Lee Keegan
6. Colm Boyle
7. Stephen Coen
8. Donal Vaughan
9. Aidan O Shea
10. Fionn McDonagh
11. Kevin McLoughlin
12. Jason Doherty
13. Cillian O'Connor
14. Darren Coen
15. James Carr

Same as the one named by the CT yesterday I believe

Euphoriasean

For once there may be no changes to the starting 15. Lee being back kinda softens the blow with Paddy.

mayo.mick

https://twitter.com/officialgaa/status/1150138949500919809

Barlett

Let’s bloody well do this!!! C’mon MAYO!!!

CatInABox

Good luck tomorrow lads, as far as I'm concerned, you can't beat Kerry enough.

MayoAreMagic

O'Connor seems to be getting a fair bit of flak for having the cheek to overtake the gooch as the all time top scorer in gaelic football. The inevitable comparisons with gooch as a player are made, followed by the predictable 'he doesnt have gooches all irelands' type stuff.

Ironic though that there are in fact literally a couple of thousand all ireland medal holders out there, but only 1 all time top scorer...

Fr Tod Umptious

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

O'Connor seems to be getting a fair bit of flak for having the cheek to overtake the gooch as the all time top scorer in gaelic football. The inevitable comparisons with gooch as a player are made, followed by the predictable 'he doesnt have gooches all irelands' type stuff.

Ironic though that there are in fact literally a couple of thousand all ireland medal holders out there, but only 1 all time top scorer...

Where is he getting this flack ?

I live in Kerry and not heard boo about it one way or another.

Call me Al

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

O'Connor seems to be getting a fair bit of flak for having the cheek to overtake the gooch as the all time top scorer in gaelic football. The inevitable comparisons with gooch as a player are made, followed by the predictable 'he doesnt have gooches all irelands' type stuff.

Ironic though that there are in fact literally a couple of thousand all ireland medal holders out there, but only 1 all time top scorer...

It's like throwing fuel.on the fire for Cillian o'connor :-) He will be raring to go.

MayoAreMagic

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Where is he getting this flack ?

I live in Kerry and not heard boo about it one way or another.

The sickly world of social media. Admittedly from some of those dub trolls who patrol the thing night and day, and a few sour galway heads - but I just thought it was a kinda funny point to make to say well he hasnt won an all ireland, when all ireland medals are in fact far more common than the all time top scorer accolade...

Powerhouse

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Ironic though that there are in fact literally a couple of thousand all ireland medal holders out there, but only 1 all time top scorer...

True, but it's like asking someone if they'd take a World Record or an Olympic Gold medal. One of them lasts forever.

I hate making that observation as it sounds like I am trying to diminish the players and his achievement which I am certainly not but it's the kind of record that most people only give fleeting thoughts to in the GAA world.

MayoAreMagic

Powerhouse wrote: »

True, but it's like asking someone if they'd take a World Record or an Olympic Gold medal. One of them lasts forever.

I hate making that observation as it sounds like I am trying to diminish the players and his achievement which I am certainly not but it's the kind of record that most people only give fleeting thoughts to in the GAA world.

Well, usain bolt is more rememebered for his unbelievable wr times than any particular medal he won... I know what you are saying but im not sure it is as black and white as that...

BandMember

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well, usain bolt is more rememebered for his unbelievable wr times than any particular medal he won... I know what you are saying but im not sure it is as black and white as that...

As are Michael Johnson and Carl Lewis before him....

MayoAreMagic

BandMember wrote: »

As are Michael Johnson and Carl Lewis before him....

Well my point was more that people remember bolts record rather than bolts medals, so therefore indicating that it isnt all about medals over records.

Re johnson and lewis - again their records are remembered more than the medals they won where they didnt break a record. Indeed they are both more memorable than a gold medal winner who didnt break a record, are they not?

I know its not exactly the same, but I think it highlights the point that there are plenty guys out there with an all ireland medal that wouldnt have a hope in hell of reaching that kind of accolade...

lab man

gooch wasn't a free taker, in all fairness, clareman here best of luck tmrw I'd love to see Keegan getting an ai medal he deserves one

BandMember

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Well my point was more that people remember bolts record rather than bolts medals, so therefore indicating that it isnt all about medals over records.

Re johnson and lewis - again their records are remembered more than the medals they won where they didnt break a record. Indeed they are both more memorable than a gold medal winner who didnt break a record, are they not?

I know its not exactly the same, but I think it highlights the point that there are plenty guys out there with an all ireland medal that wouldnt have a hope in hell of reaching that kind of accolade...

That was my badly made point! People remember great players, regardless of the medals or records they achieved. People will remember Cillian, regardless of whether he wins a Celtic Cross or not. There's plenty of corner backs out there with multiple medals who are barely remembered outside their own parish, yet people will always remember the likes of (random list off the top of my head coming up) Ciarán McDonald, James Nallen, Willie Joe, David Heaney, Declan Browne, Emlyn Mulligan, Mattie Forde, Niall McNamee, Michael Meehan etc. etc. etc.

MayoAreMagic

lab man wrote: »

gooch wasn't a free taker, in all fairness, clareman here best of luck tmrw I'd love to see Keegan getting an ai medal he deserves one

Gooch took plenty of frees in his time, not as many as O'Connor but he still took his share. Another angle on that would be that he wasnt good enough at them to take more of them (jumps for cover!)

Not that i think he is better tham the gooch, I just want to highlight how these things can be viewed several ways...
Bottom line for me, that is truely unbelievable scoring from o'connor, and it will be so whether he wins an AI or not.

conor05

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Powerhouse wrote: »

True, but it's like asking someone if they'd take a World Record or an Olympic Gold medal. One of them lasts forever.

I hate making that observation as it sounds like I am trying to diminish the players and his achievement which I am certainly not but it's the kind of record that most people only give fleeting thoughts to in the GAA world.

Well, usain bolt is more rememebered for his unbelievable wr times than any particular medal he won... I know what you are saying but im not sure it is as black and white as that...

Well I will make it even blacker and whiter for you. Cillian O Connor has no Senior All Ireland medals and Gooch has a few.

Ask Cillian would he prefer an All Ireland medal or an all time scoring feat and come back to us with his answer.

Good chap.

RedDevil55

conor05 wrote: »

Well I will make it even blacker and whiter for you. Cillian O Connor has no Senior All Ireland medals and Gooch has a few.

Ask Cillian would he prefer an All Ireland medal or an all time scoring feat and come back to us with his answer.

Good chap.

A great straw man argument right there. Everyone knows which he would prefer. Doesn't mean he's not a top quality player.

Carol25

Best of luck to the Mayo team today, and hope all supporters at the game enjoy it. Will be tuning in from abroad and really hope they come out on top today. I’ve a feeling Kerry are rearing to go for this one, especially after the league final defeat. We have the better team overall but are stretched with injuries. Fingers crossed!

seligehgit

MayoAreMagic wrote: »

Gooch took plenty of frees in his time, not as many as O'Connor but he still took his share. Another angle on that would be that he wasnt good enough at them to take more of them (jumps for cover!)

Not that i think he is better tham the gooch, I just want to highlight how these things can be viewed several ways...
Bottom line for me, that is truely unbelievable scoring from o'connor, and it will be so whether he wins an AI or not.

The Gooch for many years took frees for the Kingdom.

The whole universe does indeed know what Cillian's preference would be if given the option of a Celtic cross medal versus a very commendable achievement.

It's a bit unfair on Cillian as recognition of this achievement will always be framed around a comparison with one of the greatest ever gaelic footballers,an argument he will never win.

seligehgit

Safe journey to all.

I'm very hopeful the lads can get over the line today.

ArielAtom

I think Mayo will have to much for this Kerry side. A friend of mine had lunch with a former Kerry manager who stated that Kerry were producing the finest of footballers, but that they were to small. He said they couldn't compete physically with any of the top teams. We shall see.

Fr Tod Umptious

ArielAtom wrote: »

I think Mayo will have to much for this Kerry side. A friend of mine had lunch with a former Kerry manager who stated that Kerry were producing the finest of footballers, but that they were to small. He said they couldn't compete physically with any of the top teams. We shall see.

While that is true that Mayo will likely dominate the game physically, Kerry (in the shape of their forwards) have the ability to create chances and score from very limited service.

Mayo need to hold Kerry at bay for 50 mins of so and rachet it up in the last quarter.

It's going to be very hot out there, hopefully Mayo's three busy weeks will not come back to haunt them.

Audioslaven

seligehgit wrote: »

Safe journey to all.

I'm very hopeful the lads can get over the line today.

A win today with a solid display in the defence would be ideal. It would set us up in the group and if we have ruane and doc on the come back trail for the last game against Donegal. Another win in the group should see us through and meet the dubs in the semi would be ideal.

Bunny Colvin

Best of luck to the boys today. A huge game for us.

Ply on the sunscreen lads, some heat out of it already.

The high horse brigade

What colour do we wear today?

RedDevil55

Absolutely scorching down in Killarney at the minute. Think it's all about pacing ourselves in these conditions.

RedDevil55

The high horse brigade wrote: »

What colour do we wear today?

Blue.

km79

bench will be weaker today due to Durkan being out and Keegan having to play
Lot of lads not fully fit and serious heat
I will accept a draw !!!!!

happyoutscan

I reckon the last few weeks will stand to us.

Match fitness in this heat might just swing it, once we use our heads.

seligehgit

Traffic is brutal coming in.

Sebastian Dangerfield

jr86 wrote: »

Ryan's is great for matches, but it's a Tipperary spot so they'll be showing the Tipp hurling game at the same time Sunday



Great shout



Yeah that's what I mean, given their clientele I'd be inclined to think cricket world cup/Wimbledon would be probably prioritised on their big screen over GAA, and GAA would be limited to a small screen in a corner out the front. Maybe I'm wrong, but i wouldn't risk there myself - personally speaking anyway!
Sinnotts will 100% have GAA on big screen(s)

Well, any craic in Synnotts? Bouncing around bars in talbot / abbey st and its woeful

happyoutscan

Vaughan nowhere near fit enough for this heat. Id say he wont last til halftime.

km79

happyoutscan wrote: »

Vaughan nowhere near fit enough for this heat. Id say he wont last til halftime.

He is liable to pick up a muscle injury
Really labouring
Our midfield injuries are killing us here