Scotland Vs. Wales, Virgin Media and BBC One @ 14:15

sliabh 1956

Wales will be hard to beat in Cardiff I think they allways knew they would grind the Scots down job done If Ireland are the team we think and hope they are then we should be able for them they are not invincible by any means

lbc2019

Boscoirl wrote: »

When Parks get MOtm you know its not a classic

When Parkes gets it he deserves it

razorblunt

lbc2019 wrote: »

When Parkes gets it he deserves it

That's it, you know what you get with him but he does it incredibly well.

jr86

lbc2019 wrote: »

When Parkes gets it he deserves it

Thought he was outstanding

Jon Davies went through a power of "unseen" work too.

Clegg

Drastically underestimating the Welsh here. They're third in the world because they're so hard to beat. I think they'll win the grand slam next week because right now they're ultra confident in the way they play. They're so confident in their defensive structures that they won't panic even when sides are making line breaks and getting close to their line.

sliabh 1956

Hard to argue with that logic

Buer

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

Barring a good second half against England, Wales are in position for a GS without being markedly better than the other teams. A strange year for 6 nations.

But the thing is, they have delivered every time it has come to the crunch whether it is fronting up and reeling a team in or putting up a wall and keeping a team out. They're playing like a winning side and have that mentality. It's not pretty but it doesn't have to be. All they cared about was winning today and they did so without clicking or without eliminating errors.

I fully expect next week to be a brutal contest up front again with little high quality attacking play but they have momentum and confidence which we will lack more than likely.

jr86

Can never get the attitude of some towards Wales on this forum

13 wins in a row just shows how good a side they are and they've survived a multitude of different challenges in that time

They're the ultimate big game team under Gatland - they've romped to all their championship/slam deciders under him, and I'd expect by this day week - as pointed out on another thread yesterday - they'll have beaten every big team bar New Zealand in the past 12 months

Wheres Me Jumper?

Clegg wrote: »

Drastically underestimating the Welsh here. They're third in the world because they're so hard to beat. I think they'll win the grand slam next week because right now they're ultra confident in the way they play. They're so confident in their defensive structures that they won't panic even when sides are making line breaks and getting close to their line.

there's definitely a touch of sour grapes/begrugery about this welsh side with some of the usual posters here.
they've been wrong everytime they called it.
what's new!

P.Walnuts

If the Scottish don't lose their entire back 3 do they lose that game?

PhlegmyMoses

Buer wrote: »

But the thing is, they have delivered every time it has come to the crunch whether it is fronting up and reeling a team in or putting up a wall and keeping a team out. They're playing like a winning side and have that mentality. It's not pretty but it doesn't have to be. All they cared about was winning today and they did so without clicking or without errors.

I fully expect next week to be a brutal contest up front again with little high quality attacking play but they have momentum and confidence which we will lack more than likely.

Yeah, I don't disagree with any of that. But the point I am making is that there is no major standout team. Next week Ireland could easily go and put two or three tries on them and then you would look back at their Championship and see an error strewn mess of a match against France, a poor showing against Italy, a decent second half against England after looking beaten in the first 40 and an unconvincing second half display today which could easily have resulted in them losing.

Yes, they did not lose, but that is outcome based thinking and the elephant in the room is that none of big hitters in the NH have looked anywhere near their best for the duration of this comp. England have likely shown the best stuff in their win against Ireland.

Not to say that if they beat Ireland next week they will not deserve a GS, they absolutely will because that is how sport works and they have been very good at shutting down pressure in their 22. But if I were a Wales fan I would not be looking at these games and thinking that they are ahead of the pack at all, unlike in previous years when other teams were clearly the best and were pkaying some really great stuff.

Edit: Just reading that people think that criticism like mine above is just sour grapes. I have no sour grapes at all. I like the Welsh and they would be my next choice for a GS after Ireland. Please do not try to shut down discussion by using weird arguments like that.

Wheres Me Jumper?

for sure next week will tell a tale. a difficult one to call, but if i were putting money on it, then ......Ireland? Wales? a draw?

personally i think the Welsh side is at where we thought we should be at, at this point in our "development".
that's what's probably most frustrating for some posters.

Are we not allowed to be unimpressed with Wales now? They weren't good today, that's not sour grapes or under rating them, they just weren't good.

molloyjh

As usual the truth is always in the middle. Wales are a much better side than some have been letting on. But they’ve also been very lucky with that 13 game run. The only truly big performance they’ve had to really put in was the England one. Italy x 2, Argentina x 2, Scotland x 2, Tonga and a dire Australia were part of the 13. As was a French side a couple of weeks ago that out and out handed Wales the game plus a French side at the start of the 13 that bizarrely kicked the ball away at the end when 1 point behind having already missed a kick at goal to win it. That’s 10 of the 13 games.

Wales have already struggled this season against Italy and now Scotland. They got lucky against France. It’s an odd one, as I had them as contenders before the tournament began but have actually been pretty disappointed with them so far. They are a bloody tough team because they have a really strong mentality that make them hard to beat regardless of their performances. But maybe that’s why they’ve been so much more successful against NH sides but a lot less so against SH sides.

PhlegmyMoses

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

for sure next week will tell a tale. a difficult one to call, but if i were putting money on it, then ......Ireland? Wales? a draw?

personally i think the Welsh side is at where we thought we should be at, at this point in our "development".
that's what's probably most frustrating for some posters.

If you are putting money on it, you should absolutely go for the unbeaten team that is playing at home.

But would anybody be surprised if Ireland got the win? Not at all. As I said earlier, this years 6 nations feels like a tallest dwarf competition and Wales/England/Ireland will all have to up their game come September.

Wheres Me Jumper?

PhlegmyMoses wrote: »

If you are putting money on it, you should absolutely go for the unbeaten team that is playing at home.

But would anybody be surprised if Ireland got the win? Not at all. As I said earlier, this years 6 nations feels like a tallest dwarf competition and Wales/England/Ireland will all have to up their game come September.

i agree i think home advantage will probably be the difference.
but who knows maybe St. Patrick will turn up a bit early for the party?:D

mangobob

sydthebeat wrote: »

Injuries could be telling for wales next week ....

Hopefully we get out of tomorrow relatively unscathed

To be honest I wouldn't be worrying about injuries tomorrow. We have our hands full just getting a win. We could definitely be turned over by the French. Our title hopes are over and with France threatening to actually resurrect les Bleus of old, we have picked a bad time to hit a run of bad form. Its not hard for me to see us losing on Sunday and then needing somehow to win in Cardiff to avoid a disastrous finish to the tournament.

I wonder if Hansen was right, that we just can't cope with the favourites tag. We certainly need a big performance to steady the ship and send us to Wales with some kind of momentum and confidence.

Wheres Me Jumper?

Everybody's assuming we're going to beat France?

FrancieBrady

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

there's definitely a touch of sour grapes/begrugery about this welsh side with some of the usual posters here.
they've been wrong everytime they called it.
what's new!

:D You were calling a bonus point rout for Wales at half time if memory serves.

C__MC

Wales v Ireland has been a really intriguing rivalry since the noughties

Ireland people hate Garland because wales have done better at world cups then us and he dropped o Driscoll

Wheres Me Jumper?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

:D You were calling a bonus point rout for Wales at half time if memory serves.

based on the 1st half yes. but they were dreadful after the break, and in fairness to Scotland they put in a solid 2nd half performance.

but as you may know the game is played over 2 halves,.

weren't you predicting a Scottish win?

FrancieBrady

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

based on the 1st half yes. but they were dreadful after the break, and in fairness to Scotland they put in a solid 2nd half performance.

but as you may know the game is played over 2 halves,.

weren't you predicting a Scottish win?

No, I said Scotland might win. And some 'knowledgeable' chap berated me for knowing nothing about rugby.
He was still showing us how much he knew at halftime. :cool:

Wheres Me Jumper?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No, I said Scotland might win. And some 'knowledgeable' chap berated me for knowing nothing about rugby.
He was still showing us how much he knew at halftime. :cool:

frankie you're backpeddling now. admit it you got it wrong. no shame in that. sport is difficult to predict at the best of times.

have you any more predictions for us?

Japan to lift the WC?
Southampton to win the Premiership perhaps?
Cavan for Sam?

LOL:D

FrancieBrady

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

frankie you're backpeddling now. admit it you got it wrong. no shame in that. sport is difficult to predict at the best of times.

have you any more predictions for us?

Japan to lift the WC?
Southampton to win the Premiership perhaps?
Cavan for Sam?

LOL:D

No back pedaling here: Here is what I said

Scotland could turn out and beat Wales.

and here is your elegant response:

LOL again

I predict that one day you might learn.

troyzer

Wales really aren't that good

Wheres Me Jumper?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

No back pedaling here: Here is what I said


and here is your elegant response:


I predict that one day you might learn.

frankie i recall i asked you 2 after the Eng v Wales match if you felt Scotland would best Wales and you said yes.

like i say it's not a big deal.
i actually find your predictions very entertaining.
keep 'em coming.

mangobob

C__MC wrote: »

Wales v Ireland has been a really intriguing rivalry since the noughties

Ireland people hate Garland because wales have done better at world cups then us and he dropped o Driscoll

Agree with your first point.

As for the second, I don't think people dislike Gatland because Wales have a better WC record. Its his personality, which can be unlikeable at times. Much like Eddie Jones, he loves to stir the pot and play mind games which usually involves talking ****e and making provocative statements to rile up opposition fans and try to get into players heads. The fact that he had a particular antipathy for Ireland due to the circumstances of his departure meant that we were a frequent target for these kind of antics. And yes, the dropping of BOD certainly didn't do much for his popularity here, fairly or unfairly.

FWIW I don't hate WG at all. I think he is a first class coach with a fantastic record who has done a great job with virtually every team he has led, whether at domestic, international or Lions level. His record speaks for itself and whatever about his propensity for sh*t stirring, any team would be lucky to have him. I think he will go out in a blaze of glory this year with a GS and who could say its undeserved?

Wheres Me Jumper?

troyzer wrote: »

Wales really aren't that good

indeed, but i think we are not as good as we think(thought) we are(were) either.

FrancieBrady

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

frankie i recall i asked you 2 after the Eng v Wales match if you felt Scotland would best Wales and you said yes.

like i say it's not a big deal.
i actually find your predictions very entertaining.
keep 'em coming.

Again, here is what I said in reply:

Yes.
At home, with something to prove - entirely possible.

and they almost did.

Get some loo roll and wipe the egg off your chin and don't be so arrogant in future. You just look foolish, like you did predicting a bonus point rout at half time.
*P.S. Because I know rugby I rarely make predictions, so I am not quite sure what you were enjoying.

Take her handy! :cool:

Wheres Me Jumper?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Again, here is what I said in reply:



and they almost did.

Get some loo roll and wipe the egg off your chin and don't be so arrogant in future. You just look foolish, like you did predicting a bonus point rout at half time.
*P.S. Because I THINK I know rugby I rarely make ACCURATE predictions, so I am not quite sure what you were enjoying.

Take her handy! :cool:

You were asked a straight question.
You answered YES
You were WRONG (not for the 1st time i might add)

FrancieBrady wrote: »

They'll lift it for Le Crunch and England could suffer the jitters, nit unusual in rugby after investing a lot into a game.

like i say it's really no big deal.
we're only having a wee bit of harmless fun here. we all get it wrong from time to time. that's part of the fun.
Keep them nuggets comin!:D

troyzer

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Wales really aren't that good

indeed, but i think we are not as good as we think(thought) we are(were) either.

I don't think it's the same thing. Ireland have established their credentials and are clearly off form for everyone to see.

By contrast, even in the last few weeks I said that Wales hadn't actually had a convincing win running up to the England game. That England win was decent but they looked second best for most of the game and it was at home.

Wales have been very lucky and sauntered along with a really favourable run of June, November and Six Nations fixtures.

Wheres Me Jumper?

troyzer wrote: »

I don't think it's the same thing. Ireland have established their credentials and are clearly off form for everyone to see.

By contrast, even in the last few weeks I said that Wales hadn't actually had a convincing win running up to the England game. That England win was decent but they looked second best for most of the game and it was at home.

Wales have been very lucky and sauntered along with a really favourable run of June, November and Six Nations fixtures.

Credentials. that's a nice sounding word.
clearly there's not much between them, but i'm not so sure it can be put down to lady luck.
Saturday will be an intriguing match.

troyzer

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

I don't think it's the same thing. Ireland have established their credentials and are clearly off form for everyone to see.

By contrast, even in the last few weeks I said that Wales hadn't actually had a convincing win running up to the England game. That England win was decent but they looked second best for most of the game and it was at home.

Wales have been very lucky and sauntered along with a really favourable run of June, November and Six Nations fixtures.

Credentials. that's a nice sounding word.
clearly there's not much between them, but i'm not so sure it can be put down to lady luck.
Saturday will be an intriguing match.

Well as I said when I pointed this out before, what top drawer team had they actually beaten before the England game?

mangobob

troyzer wrote: »

I don't think it's the same thing. Ireland have established their credentials and are clearly off form for everyone to see.

By contrast, even in the last few weeks I said that Wales hadn't actually had a convincing win running up to the England game. That England win was decent but they looked second best for most of the game and it was at home.

Wales have been very lucky and sauntered along with a really favourable run of June, November and Six Nations fixtures.

I understand your point and I can see where you are coming from.

But just to play devils advocate here, you could make a fairly similar case for Ireland being lucky. Looking at our run in 2018: we were turgid against France and should have lost, requiring an incredible last minute 40 metre drop goal to win at the death. We were an intercepted pass away from potentially losing to Wales in Dublin. We played an England who were in the midst of a very deep slump in form and who were missing some key players like Billy V. We saw what a difference he makes when we played them this year. We then were pretty fortunate to win a tour down under against an under-performing Oz team, finishing with a record of 2 and 1 and a combined points difference of zero. There were some close decisions that went our way and we played a team that was hardly in vintage form, as evidenced by their subsequent results. The only result that was really standout was the All Blacks, and we still had them at home at the end of their season. That doesn't diminish what we achieved by beating them, but it does provide some context for the win.

The point is that we rode our luck and kept winning, just like Wales have done this year. I really dont think there is much that seperates us when we are both playing at our best. The only difference right now is that Wales have developed that winning habit and appear to be peaking at just the right time. We seem to have lost that winning habit and appear to have peaked a season to early. But lets see what happens.

troyzer

mangobob wrote: »

I understand your point and I can see where you are coming from.

But just to play devils advocate here, you could make a fairly similar case for Ireland being lucky. Looking at our run in 2018: we were turgid against France and should have lost, requiring an incredible last minute 40 metre drop goal to win at the death. We were an intercepted pass away from potentially losing to Wales in Dublin. We played an England who were in the midst of a very deep slump in form and who were missing some key players like Billy V. We saw what a difference he makes when we played them this year. We then were pretty fortunate to win a tour down under against an under-performing Oz team, finishing with a record of 2 and 1 and a combined points difference of zero. There were some close decisions that went our way and we played a team that was hardly in vintage form, as evidenced by their subsequent results. The only result that was really standout was the All Blacks, and we still had them at home at the end of their season. That doesn't diminish what we achieved by beating them, but it does provide some context for the win.

The point is that we rode our luck and kept winning, just like Wales have done this year. I really dont think there is much that seperates us when we are both playing at our best. The only difference right now is that Wales have developed that winning habit and appear to be peaking at just the right time. We seem to have lost that winning habit and appear to have peaked a season to early. But lets see what happens.

I'm not disputing that we rode our luck. But we rode our luck to wins over Wales, the All Blacks and England in Twickenham. Wales rode their luck to wins over Italy, France and an awful Australia.

Every team needs luck but there's still a lot to be said for the quality of opposition. Not that that's Wales' fault. They can only play who's in front of them. But it does mean I remain to be convinced. They've looked very average the entire Six Nations so far except for the last 20 minutes against England.

Having said all of that, I don't think there's a whole lot between Wales and Ireland. But if this is the best Wales have and Ireland find their 2018 form, I expect us to win well next week.

Wheres Me Jumper?

troyzer wrote: »

I'm not disputing that we rode our luck. But we rode our luck to wins over Wales, the All Blacks and England in Twickenham. Wales rode their luck to wins over Italy, France and an awful Australia.

Every team needs luck but there's still a lot to be said for the quality of opposition. Not that that's Wales' fault. They can only play who's in front of them. But it does mean I remain to be convinced. They've looked very average the entire Six Nations so far except for the last 20 minutes against England.

Having said all of that, I don't think there's a whole lot between Wales and Ireland. But if this is the best Wales have and Ireland find their 2018 form, I expect us to win well next week.

aren't you forgetting a little rendezvous tomorrow @ 3pm?
if we lose or more likely underperform tomorrow, then you'ld have to conclude the momentum is with the Welsh.

in sport it's best to take 1 game at a time.
and momentum is (almost) everything.

FrancieBrady

troyzer wrote: »

Well as I said when I pointed this out before, what top drawer team had they actually beaten before the England game?

It would be tremendously satisfying to bookend their 13 match winning streak.
Last time they played us is the last time they lost.

troyzer

FrancieBrady wrote: »

troyzer wrote: »

Well as I said when I pointed this out before, what top drawer team had they actually beaten before the England game?

It would be tremendously satisfying to bookend their 13 match winning streak.
Last time they played us is the last time they lost.

Well it would certainly plant it firmly in their heads that they're second best to us at least. Whatever about England.

Wheres Me Jumper?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It would be tremendously satisfying to bookend their 13 match winning streak.
Last time they played us is the last time they lost.

any predictions frankie?

molloyjh

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

any predictions frankie?

Any chance the rest of us can be spared this petty crap?

FrancieBrady

troyzer wrote: »

Well it would certainly plant it firmly in their heads that they're second best to us at least. Whatever about England.

England know they got us on a bad day at the office. It is all about the mind games ahead of Japan now for us. Schimdt will be keen to win emphatically in the Millennium because that will send messages to more than England and Wales. Big game for us now.

Wheres Me Jumper?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

England know they got us on a bad day at the office. It is all about the mind games ahead of Japan now for us. Schimdt will be keen to win emphatically in the Millennium because that will send messages to more than England and Wales. Big game for us now.

yes mind games are important, as you've shown us.
a big game. a really big game i would say. you sure got that right!

but to use that old cliché,

one game at a time.

Allez Les Verts!

jr86

troyzer wrote: »

I'm not disputing that we rode our luck. But we rode our luck to wins over Wales, the All Blacks and England in Twickenham. Wales rode their luck to wins over Italy, France and an awful Australia.

Every team needs luck but there's still a lot to be said for the quality of opposition. Not that that's Wales' fault. They can only play who's in front of them. But it does mean I remain to be convinced. They've looked very average the entire Six Nations so far except for the last 20 minutes against England.

Having said all of that, I don't think there's a whole lot between Wales and Ireland. But if this is the best Wales have and Ireland find their 2018 form, I expect us to win well next week.

"Win well"

Our 2018 team couldn't even "win well" against Wales in Dublin last year

When exactly have Wales been well beaten in Cardiff in the 6n in recent memory?

Add the hunger they will bring going for the slam and an electric atmosphere and I'd be beyond astonished if we beat them in any way comfortably

FrancieBrady

jr86 wrote: »

"Win well"

Our 2018 team couldn't even "win well" against Wales in Dublin last year

When exactly have Wales been well beaten in Cardiff in the 6n in recent memory?

Add the hunger they will bring going for the slam and an electric atmosphere and I'd be beyond astonished if we beat them in any way comfortably

Depends. The advantage can be with the visiting team who have no pressure on them - or not the same intense pressure anyway.
We have upset a few confident teams in our time.

Wheres Me Jumper?

jr86 wrote: »

"Win well"

Our 2018 team couldn't even "win well" against Wales in Dublin last year

When exactly have Wales been well beaten in Cardiff in the 6n in recent memory?

Add the hunger they will bring going for the slam and an electric atmosphere and I'd be beyond astonished if we beat them in any way comfortably

as i keep saying, we have yet to beat France. Momentum is (almost) everything in sport and Wales have it, we seem to have lost it..

i fear some posters may be allowing their anti-Gatland emotions to cloud their judgement.

FrancieBrady

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

as i keep saying, we have yet to beat France. Momentum is (almost) everything in sport and Wales have it, we seem to have lost it..

i fear some posters may be allowing their anti-Gatland emotions to cloud their judgement.

It will still be a Grand Slam decider for Wales wahtever happens v France.

razorblunt

Read a great stat there on the decision for Scotland to go to the corner with over 10 mins left. Interestingly had Russell converted the try he'd have had a relatively decent shot at goal to put them in the lead. Anyways, Scotland have only scored 1 maul out of ~100 in the last 4 years.

Wheres Me Jumper?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Depends. The advantage can be with the visiting team who have no pressure on them - or not the same intense pressure anyway.
We have upset a few confident teams in our time.

Jasus Frankie have you ever even been to a 6 Nations match in Cardiff? The Welsh thrive on that. They love it. Everybody does.

Can't believe you consider that a disadvantage.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

It will still be a Grand Slam decider for Wales wahtever happens v France.

another very poor argument imo.
yes but should we lose to France (unlikely imo, but possible), then we will have lost all momentum.
and as i keep telling you, momentum is (almost) ...

FrancieBrady

Wheres Me Jumper? wrote: »

Jasus Frankie have you ever even been to a 6 Nations match in The Cardiff Arms? The Welsh thrive on that. They love it. Everybody does.

Can't believe you consider that a disadvantage.

I have been in all the grounds bar Rome. And I understand the pressure the weight of expectation brings. I have seen (in the stadium) England collapse under it.
The stadium atmosphere counts, no doubt about that, but crowds can be silenced too.

another very poor argument imo.
yes but should we lose to France (unlikely imo, but possible), then we will have lost all momentum.
and as i keep telling you, momentum is (almost) ...

A team with something to prove is as dangerous as a team with momentum. This year particularly as there is something else to play for and something else to aim at.

Wheres Me Jumper?

FrancieBrady wrote: »

I have been in all the grounds bar Rome. And I understand the pressure the weight of expectation brings. I have seen (in the stadium) England collapse under it.
The stadium atmosphere counts, no doubt about that, but crowds can be silenced too.

disagree totally. the Welsh thrive on that atmosphere more than any other home team. but you may be right and they may wilt under it. we will see.

FrancieBrady wrote: »

A team with something to prove is as dangerous as a team with momentum. This year particularly as there is something else to play for and something else to aim at.

if ever there was a side to prove something, then it must be Les Bleus. so by your logic France are a very dangerous proposition. i actually agree, but i dont think that will assist you argument.