Secondary School - is single gender better than co-ed?

meeeeh

I think sex angle is actually often a bit over-stated. Where I found major difference was that interests in high school were a lot less gendered. It was fairly normal for girls to take interest in sports ( in fact best girls in our class routinely beat best boys from our and another class in volleyball), we did physics or sociology and there were very little gender differences. Outside of school subjects other interests were a lot more mixed. Very few people in our class actually dated anyone from class or even school but that would also because most of us commuted from different areas and wouldn't spend time together during weekends. There was also complete contempt at the idea seniors would date someone from first class. So this idea that kids at mixed schools are at it like rabbits is a bit of a nonsense. Most of us would be still awkward around someone we were attracted to.

TheValeyard

Toots wrote: »

Yes, unfortunately that seems to be the case where I live, as well. We had a meeting at the school and the principal was advising people to start putting names down now. I’ve already phoned a few schools and most of them have at least 50 names down for the year my son is due to start. While the “closing date” is the start of 6th class for some of them, if they’re already full, you’d have no chance if you left it til 5th class to put their name down.

Some schools will have opening nights early in September for that very reason.
Usually its done by October of 6th class as many schools will then have an entrance exam to check incoming first years literacy, numeracy, educational needs, skills, etc. It helps sort out some class groupings and alerts schools to any kids they made need extra care.

Toots wrote: »

Just to complicate matters, it’s fairly likely we will be moving county in the next couple of years, so we’ll be going to an area where I know nothing about the schools. Are the league tables a good benchmark as to whether or not a school is any good?

League tables are a poor reflection as they mostly seem to base success on those who go to college or university courses. They do not take into account development of students with learning difficulties or LCA classes to progress students to alternative courses before college or apprenticeships.

Mad Mike

I think it depends on the child and on what is important to you. There seems to be significant statistical evidence that single sex schools score higher academically. On the other hand it stands to reason that mixed sex is closer to the real world and may give them better preparation for life.

My own kids (all girls) went to a single sex school because it was closest decent school. Overall I was pleased with it because they got a very good education and the school did instil a sense of social responsibility while also empowering them as young women. I can't really say it hindered their interaction with boys because they all progressed that side of things at their own rate and boyfriends started appearing from age 15 onward for at least one girl. The one thing that caught me by surprise was how much of an emotional cauldron a school full of teenage girls can be. At times the interpersonal drama was off the charts. I don't know if this is just a girls school thing or if it is a trend of the social media age we live in but things seemed so much simpler several decades ago when I went to an all male school and the main concern was how to act the maggot and avoid getting walloped for it. The mid teens were particularly traumatic and I wonder if having a few boys in class would have lightened the atmosphere at that time and made things easier for everyone.

ShaShaBear

Mad Mike wrote: »

I don't know if this is just a girls school thing or if it is a trend of the social media age we live in but things seemed so much simpler several decades ago when I went to an all male school and the main concern was how to act the maggot and avoid getting walloped for it. The mid teens were particularly traumatic and I wonder if having a few boys in class would have lightened the atmosphere at that time and made things easier for everyone.

I experienced the same in my all-girls primary school, as did my younger sister. This would have been 20 and 10 years ago respectively. Definitely saw much less of it in secondary school.
Oddly enough, myself and a friend were talking about creche and how the same thing seems to happen in a work setting filled with women. I mentioned how that doesn't seem to be the case at my creche, as there is a man working there and my mother recalled working in creche some years ago when a man started working in the kitchen and tensions were halved!

antodeco

I went to an all boys school my whole life (except junior infants to first class). Both my kids are attending mixed as I believe it serves a better social purpose. They're also in a gaelscoil just to confuse them

shesty

splinter65 wrote: »

If all of your 12 year old child’s friends are heading off to one school and your preference is for another school then your going to have to have a lot of very good arguments to put forward. Nothing is as important as your interpersonal relationships when your 12, for boys and girls.

Absolutely.But if the 12 year old's preference is for a local school that has bullying issues among other things and that they, quite honestly, will not be going to, then I'm sorry, but as the parent I will be deciding.

I am not sure if we are in unusual position in that there are a number of secondary schools within travelling distance around here with fairly wide catchment areas, who I will put the kids names down in, but I think by even doing this I will be making the decision for them anyway because they are mainly oversubscribed - wanting (in 6/7 year's time) to go to a different school unfortunately are not likely to work out.The primary school classes here often go to a mix of 3/4 different secondary schools, sometimes more.

Anyway Toots with regard to your OP, it is very much your personal preference; at the moment I am trying to keep options open for both single sex and mixed, as I am not sure.

eviltwin

I let my oldest choose her own school and she went for mixed because the subject choice was better. I never had a problem with boys being a distraction and she did extremely well but I know other people say different.

My youngest has been in a mixed school since JI and I plan to continue that in secondary. I don't like the idea of sex segregation but it would largely depend on the child and the school itself.

One eyed Jack

meeeeh wrote: »

Its your observation in a country with a lot of single sex schools.

My brother went to school with predominately boys (it wasn't single sex) and I went to very mixed school. My group of friends would be a lot more mixed, so would be groups of other people who went to more mixed high schools or university courses.

Anyway my personal preference for mixed schools is firstly because it's the only system I know and also because it means a lot more rounded experience. For example girls in my school were a lot less likely to wear make up than girls in predominately girl schools. I went to very good high school so every school might not be the same but there were very few instances of bullying. However if I had a choice between decent single sex school and rubbish mixed I would choose singe sex.

While it’s true that I live in a country where 30% of post-primary schools are single sex, my opinion is based upon observation at both national and international level.

You’re basing your opinion on your personal experience, which is fine, but it’s hardly representative of a whole lot, which is what you’re suggesting I’m doing (I’m not).

Your experience isn’t anything like this for example -


Single-sex or co-ed?

In a culture of ‘fake tan’ and ‘trophy wives’, single-sex schools provide a safety net for girls, says Barbara Ennis, principal of Alexandra College, Dublin


I don’t see why you would make a correlation between whether a woman wears makeup or not, and their education, seeing as most women wear makeup, and they will have received an all-round education. Same with the correlation you’re making between the standard of education provided by a school, and the level of bullying in the school. Bullying goes on in all educational institutions regardless of the reputation of the school. Having talked to a lot of women who went to single sex schools, they often experienced bullying that impeded their education, some of it particularly vicious at times. I didn’t experience anything like that in an all boys school, but I still acknowledge the fact that it’s prevalent in many schools regardless of the demographic of the school, at either national or international level, and the same goes for bullying in the workplace, in spite of their well rounded education that was provided to them in school, because it’s a personality trait, nothing to do with their education.

Looking at an overall picture though won’t give anyone any real perspective on which schools they should send their child to, which is why I suggested earlier -

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Really it comes down to where you feel your son will be most comfortable and will be conducive to his academic, social and personal development.

Lorelli!

I went to a mixed local school in junior infants, then moved to an all girls one for the rest of primary. It was further away, not that far but I had to get a bus and there were not that many kids from my area that went there. It was known as a better school but I felt the distance was isolating me from my peers.

I chose to go to a mixed school closer where all my friends were going for secondary. Actually it was extremely close but I still managed to be late quite a lot Didn't have any problems socially with the boys or the girls as a result of previously attending an all girls school. Thinking of it now, there were more boys in my year at the beginning of secondary than girls where, it didn't happen too much but some classes might only have two girls in a class with the rest boys. Also not really relevant but at the time, there was roughly an equal amount of male teachers as there were female teachers which I didn't have any issue with either having previously had only women as teachers.

For me, it wasn't really an issue of whether it was mixed or same sex but I preferred secondary in general simply because I was with my own social group.

freshpopcorn

Where I live you've the option of the convent, CBS or tech/community school(mixed).
The Concent and CBS would get better results than the tech and most people seem happy going to them.
However the disadvantages would be wood work/TG isn't available for the girls and homiceconmic isn't available for the guys.
Metal work isn't offered to either.
Music is available for the girls and is tricky for the lads to do.
When you do get into 5th year the schools mix for a few subjects.
If you went to the community college.( It's
more popular with people who want to do trades/farming/etc). You'd have easier access to the subjects I mentioned above but you'd either have to pick French or German once you went into second year and in 5th year there seems to be less choices regarding science because the class sizes are small and they go with what's popular.
So, to me the kids interests play a part.

meeeeh

One eyed Jack wrote: »

While it’s true that I live in a country where 30% of post-primary schools are single sex, my opinion is based upon observation at both national and international level.

You’re basing your opinion on your personal experience, which is fine, but it’s hardly representative of a whole lot, which is what you’re suggesting I’m doing (I’m not).

Your experience isn’t anything like this for example -


Single-sex or co-ed?

In a culture of ‘fake tan’ and ‘trophy wives’, single-sex schools provide a safety net for girls, says Barbara Ennis, principal of Alexandra College, Dublin

Well if your experience is international you and her would do well on checking stats for make up and fake tan in European countries with mixed sex education.

Edit: just to add I'm not in favor of mixed schools at any cost because the quality of school would be first consideration. Kids to schools with higher academic barriers or certain private schools, schools that are not disadvantaged areas will have advantage.

Johnnyhpipe

mirrorwall14 wrote: »

I’m a product of an all girls catholic school primary and secondary. I got an excellent leaving cert. I had terrible social skills around boys. First year in college was incredibly difficult for me. I hope to have mixed education for mine at second level

Exactly this. I knew boys who couldn’t talk to girls for years (i’m married 2 years and still can’t...)

One eyed Jack

meeeeh wrote: »

Well if your experience is international you and her would do well on checking stats for make up and fake tan in European countries with mixed sex education.

I’d appreciate it if you could link to any evidence for this correlation that you’ve read yourself, I’d be interested in reading it.

meeeeh

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I’d appreciate it if you could link to any evidence that you’ve read yourself.

Ireland is among top users of fake tan in the world. If single sex schools discourage use of fake tan then they are doing poor job.

https://www.independent.ie/style/beauty/beauty-is-booming-for-savvy-business-owners-31209636.html

I'm not going down the rabbit hole of this argument because frankly it's stupid. I never anything about fake tan but I also don't believe in nonsense that girls will be more into their looks in mixed schools. However there is supposed to be research that points kids develop socially better in mixed schools.

AndrewJRenko

I was at a Transition Year meeting for parents and students at a mixed school last week. All the girls sat together on one side and the boys on the other. It's the same arrangement at lunchtime I'm told.

One eyed Jack

meeeeh wrote: »

Ireland is among top users of fake tan in the world. If single sex schools discourage use of fake tan then they are doing poor job.

https://www.independent.ie/style/beauty/beauty-is-booming-for-savvy-business-owners-31209636.html

I'm not going down the rabbit hole of this argument because frankly it's stupid. I never anything about fake tan but I also don't believe in nonsense that girls will be more into their looks in mixed schools. However there is supposed to be research that points kids develop socially better in mixed schools.

Oh there’s plenty of research on that alright, none of it still conclusive either way. It was your criteria of girls wearing less makeup as an example of a more well rounded experience I was wondering about -

meeeeh wrote: »

IAnyway my personal preference for mixed schools is firstly because it's the only system I know and also because it means a lot more rounded experience. For example girls in my school were a lot less likely to wear make up than girls in predominately girl schools.

As it happens though, there is plenty of research which suggests it isn’t just nonsense that girls are just as much into their looks in mixed schools as they are in single sex schools, if not more so -


Self-esteem problems more likely for girls in mixed school environments

meeeeh

One eyed Jack wrote: »

Self-esteem problems more likely for girls in mixed school environments

They asked 200 of girls about their attitudes 100 from each school. In single sex school it was 19 girls who dieted despite no need for it and in other school it was 26. You take that 'research' seriously?

And I never said wearing make up makes girls less rounded. If your intetion is to misrepresent you are doing very good job.

One eyed Jack

meeeeh wrote: »

They asked 200 of girls about their attitudes 100 from each school. In single sex school it was 19 girls who dieted despite no need for it and in other school it was 26. You take that 'research' seriously?

And I never said wearing make up makes girls less rounded. If your intetion is to misrepresent you are doing very good job.

I take it more seriously than your anecdotal experience, yes, and I could have provided a ton more, but I figured just one was sufficient to make the point.

You used the example of girls wearing less makeup in your school as an example of a more rounded experience. It wasn’t my intention to misrepresent you at all, it was my intention to understand exactly what you meant by that, and since you wouldn’t provide me with any evidence for the correlation, I took it to mean you were referring to girls self-esteem, and on that score, your correlation based upon your experience between girls in co-ed schools and your perception that they had greater self-esteem than girls in single sex schools, just doesn’t stand up.

meeeeh

One eyed Jack wrote: »

I take it more seriously than your anecdotal experience, yes, and I could have provided a ton more, but I figured just one was sufficient to make the point.

You used the example of girls wearing less makeup in your school as an example of a more rounded experience. It wasn’t my intention to misrepresent you at all, it was my intention to understand exactly what you meant by that, and since you wouldn’t provide me with any evidence for the correlation, I took it to mean you were referring to girls self-esteem, and on that score, your correlation based upon your experience between girls in co-ed schools and your perception that they had greater self-esteem than girls in single sex schools, just doesn’t stand up.

I mean that interests and topics of conversation were less gender specific not that you became more rounded person.