Juventus (0) vs Atletico Madrid (2), Rd of 16 2nd Leg, RTE2 & BT Sport 3, 8pm

Kevin Finnerty

Strumms wrote: »

I’m with you ^ it’s a privilege to be watching and enjoying our sport in this era when probably two of the top five players EVER in our game are playing... two players who while renowned for their competitiveness, talent and will to succeed are two pure entertainers who can do things over 90 minutes that other attacking pros would end up on their arses trying. Two of the best 5 players EVER to play this sport.

I’ve been thinking a bit about this recently and we are spoiled. Also next season my goal is to get to see Messi live in person play at the Nou Camp. I saw Ronaldo when with United a couple of times but I gotta see Messi before as eventually happens, the light fades...

I've seen both of them play, both at home in La Liga. Just for the sheer adulation and idolatry from the stands is incredible, that's before they even kick a ball. I'll always remember Messi coming on at half time against Santander, the place went absolutely nuts. MESSI MESSI MESSI

Ronaldo walked around the park in the Bernabeu for long periods but still managed two moments of pure speed and class to score the only 2 goals in the game. The noise was sensational.

Do it if you can!

NIMAN

charolais0153 wrote: »

I want to see some 2nd leg games in the champions league around europe. Dont know where id get tickets but can you imagine the atmosphere there tonight,absolutely unbelievable

You'll struggle to get a ticket for a big game like that at the new Juve stadium due to amount of season ticket holders.

Most of the big Euro nights at the big clubs will be tough tbh, I've been at a few over the years and they require you to buy off a tout quite often, and since the days I did it, I am sure their prices have rocketed.

As for atmosphere, it can be hit and miss. Seen a Nou Camp game v Bilbao once and it was like a wake. Easy 2-0 victory and crowd didn't have anything to get excited about.
But also been at games where the atmosphere has been unbelievable.

rob316

Enjoy them both, we'll be waiting a while for others of their ilk to come along.

I think the divide still goes back to United vs Liverpool, which is ridiculous as he hasn't played for United in 10 years.

I always say this about them. Messi was born the best but Ronaldo is driven to be the best.

rob316

rob316 wrote: »

Enjoy them both, we'll be waiting a while for others of their ilk to come along.

I think the divide still goes back to United vs Liverpool, which is ridiculous as he hasn't played for United in 10 years.

I always say this about them. Messi was born the best but Ronaldo is driven to be the best.

I doubt it's a divide. Utd fans will always have a deep affiliation with Ronaldo.
He left on good terms too.

And some Utd fans or non-utd fans do genuinely believe he's better than Messi and vice versa. This will never change. When they day comes and they both pack it up it will be a sad day in the world of football IMO.

charolais0153

Fred The Red wrote: »

I doubt it's a divide. Utd fans will always have a deep affiliation with Ronaldo.
He left on good terms too.

And some Utd fans or non-utd fans do genuinely believe he's better than Messi and vice versa. This will never change. When they day comes and they both pack it up it will be a sad day in the world of football IMO.

Imo ronaldo has become a much more lkeable person in the last 6/7 seasons. Picked up kore fans as a result

SlickRic

i don't think there is actually an argument left against Ronaldo being the greatest big game player we've ever seen.

Iang87

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Not aggrieved. Just can't understand why a blatant penalty wasnt given and no mention of it. Doesn't matter a jot to me mate. Carry on as you were.

I agree with you completely. Couldn't understand how it didn't even get a mention. I see online people mention it but everytime someone said the keeper was getting the ball but that is irrelevant. 25 yards out the field its a free no question regardless where the ball is going.

Surprised it wasn't even deemed worthy a look by VAR given that it was in effect the tie at stake.

LuckyLloyd

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Where is the greatest player in the world to take control of the game when his team is in need? That's right, jumping out of the way the ball. Totally anonymous once again against a well drilled Atletico team

titan18 wrote: »

Post from the first leg

He'll emerge again the next game Ronaldo is held in check. His position has been proven repeatedly as completely bankrupt, but he comes right back in again and again posting the same nonsense. It's completely ridiculous but hey ho.

Arghus

I used to hate him when he was at United, but I have to love him at this stage: he's undeniable.

Nerdlingr

Iang87 wrote: »

I agree with you completely. Couldn't understand how it didn't even get a mention. I see online people mention it but everytime someone said the keeper was getting the ball but that is irrelevant. 25 yards out the field its a free no question regardless where the ball is going.

Surprised it wasn't even deemed worthy a look by VAR given that it was in effect the tie at stake.

Just found it on youtube. Crazy decision.

GLaDOS

I think it might be just outside the box. Definite foul tbf.

TFBubendorfer

Arghus wrote: »

I used to hate him when he was at United, but I have to love him at this stage: he's undeniable.

He's not the first person in the world to be an utter sh*tbag of a human being but at the same time an incredibly gifted footballer, but he's probably the most prominent example.

rob316

We have seen players have purple seasons reaching a goal a game or close like Suarez and Salah but they drop back to human levels then. Messi and Ronaldo continue to score 50 goals a season for 10 seasons in a row, its incredible really that level of consistency.

charolais0153

rob316 wrote: »

We have seen players have purple seasons reaching a goal a game or close like Suarez and Salah but they drop back to human levels then. Messi and Ronaldo continue to score 50 goals a season for 10 seasons in a row, its incredible really that level of consistency.

Hell hardly score 50 this season but the point still stands. Consistency of the highest order

SlickRic

rob316 wrote: »

We have seen players have purple seasons reaching a goal a game or close like Suarez and Salah but they drop back to human levels then. Messi and Ronaldo continue to score 50 goals a season for 10 seasons in a row, its incredible really that level of consistency.

it's not just the consistency of goalscoring when it comes to Ronaldo.

it's the sheer number of times he pulls something out of his arse when his team needs it.

mightyreds

GLaDOS wrote: »

I think it might be just outside the box. Definite foul tbf.

Ah VAR cant make decisions on incidents outside the box and your right it is outside so nothing they could do

Strumms

SlickRic wrote: »

it's not just the consistency of goalscoring when it comes to Ronaldo.

it's the sheer number of times he pulls something out of his arse when his team needs it.

Yes this ^

In addition he is fearless it doesn't matter how the game is going.. his teammates not setting the pitch on fire so to speak..he always plays with his head up... with positivity and direct attacking intent... that sort of attitude must be infectious and a real example to teammates and younger players alike... some of the histrionics we could do without but largely he seems to have filtered this out of his game thankfully....

I think for all the complaining... when Ronaldo and Messi are no longer at their peak or no longer gracing football pitches we will look back..feeling slightly spoiled.. slightly grateful to have been around to enjoy two of the best most blatantly entertaining footballers not only of our generation but since the invention of the game...week after week. Enjoy it !!!

Iang87

mightyreds wrote: »

Ah VAR cant make decisions on incidents outside the box and your right it is outside so nothing they could do

Is that right???

GLaDOS

Iang87 wrote: »

Is that right???

It can be used for potential red card incidents outside the box. People don't want VAR called up for every single incident so a line has to be drawn.

The Golden Miller

LuckyLloyd wrote: »

He'll emerge again the next game Ronaldo is held in check. His position has been proven repeatedly as completely bankrupt, but he comes right back in again and again posting the same nonsense. It's completely ridiculous but hey ho.

Haven't gone anywhere. I don't mind Ronaldo whatsoever, and I always love the posts when people think he proved me wrong by scoring a few goals. I always said he's a world class goal scorer, people choose to ignore this, take it out of context, and pretend I'm saying he's rubbish for pointing out glaring deficiencies in his overall game. Deficiencies which must be discussed if we are to pit him against the other greats.

Despite all his goals in the European knock-out rounds, this game and Juve game in the final are the only two that really "proved me wrong". Let's not forget, up until the farcical Bayern game a few seasons back, the "best goalscorer of all time" failed to score more than 1 goal in a game against top quality opposition in Europe. And in that game he scored an offside goal, and another against a 10 man Bayern pushing forward and leaving huge holes in defense.

So, we have to ask ourselves, how do we rate greatness? Are guys like Maradona, Cruyff etc the greats which transcend a level above their position? Because when we talk about the best wingers or defenders, we specify they are one of the best ever in that position, but probably a level below the greatest of all time. Same with strikers. I'd rate Gerd Muller as the best striker of all time, but still a level below Maradona for example. I'd have Ronaldo as one of the greatest ever in his position.

But in the context of the greatest ever, Messi is in this debate, he's not on a level with guys like Zidane, Ronaldo, Cruyff, Maradona, Platini etc. Maybe it's because most of these are attacking mids, but I guess the reason they are attacking mids/playmers to begin with is because they are the complete players. Ronaldo lacks many of the attributes they possess, so for me falls into the Gerd "just a goal scorer" Muller bracket. Which explains why we always have to recite his goal scoring record, like Muller, to show his greatness, as he lacks many attributes of the greats over 90 minutes. We don't need to do this for the others.

I'd also have guys like Kaka and Ronaldinho ahead of Ronaldo when they were at their peak. Overall, I'd have them behind Ronaldo due to a lack in longevity.

The reason I used Atletico as a benchmark, is because they are a throwback to the past, how tough defense's used to be week in, week out.... what guys like Muller had to content with in more balanced league's and in poorer conditions which suited some of the top defenses. Striker's stats are over-inflated these days, particularly in league's like Spain, which is even becoming prevalent in Europe too with the financial disparity. But hat's off to Ronaldo this time, he did do it against a well drilled Atletico team and I'd like to see more of that from him. Up until that Bayern game I mentioned, he just didn't do it enough on the big stage, relative to what he's payed to do, score a goal. I think in many sports we are quick to rate the most recent thing as "the best ever", so I simply disagree with the "Ronaldo is one of the two best ever" narrative we continually see

Liam O

Yeah he really should have not taken full advantage of his talents and played as a traditional right winger, not won loads of European Cups, one internationally and retired as merely a great player.

The more time goes by the more nonsense is spouted. He has plenty of assists as well as goals and only became an out and out goalscorer (even that is severely devaluing what he can produce these days) in the last few years. He would be involved in build up as well as finishing before that.

No idea what your arbitrary stat about not scoring multiple goals against top quality opposition is supposed to mean. You just throw out nonsense and hope it will stick. I don't know why I bother really...

How many other players have gotten even one hat trick against Simeone's Atletico team? Ronaldo has 4 or so. That's more than 'just a goalscorer'.

The Golden Miller

Liam O wrote: »

Yeah he really should have not taken full advantage of his talents and played as a traditional right winger, not won loads of European Cups, one internationally and retired as merely a great player.

The more time goes by the more nonsense is spouted. He has plenty of assists as well as goals and only became an out and out goalscorer (even that is severely devaluing what he can produce these days) in the last few years. He would be involved in build up as well as finishing before that.

No idea what your arbitrary stat about not scoring multiple goals against top quality opposition is supposed to mean. You just throw out nonsense and hope it will stick. I don't know why I bother really...

How many other players have gotten even one hat trick against Simeone's Atletico team? Ronaldo has 4 or so. That's more than 'just a goalscorer'.

Of course he should take full advantage of his talents, as Gerd Muller did too for example.

It's not an arbitrary stat. Top teams are becoming far and few between these days due to finances, but up until the Bayern game he simply didn't score more than one goal in any given game against a top European side. He scored the odd goal here and there, like in a group game with Juve. That's impressive as it is, but poor enough for what many rate as the greatest goal scorer of all time.

He's been in many winning teams. That's true, and often the pivotal outlet. I just think the difference is the other greats were the defining fulcrum of their teams, who drove the whole show from the centre

charolais0153

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Of course he should take full advantage of his talents, as Gerd Muller did too for example.

It's not an arbitrary stat. Top teams are becoming far and few between these days due to finances, but up until the Bayern game he simply didn't score more than one goal in any given game against a top European side. He scored the odd goal here and there, like in a group game with Juve. That's impressive as it is, but poor enough for what many rate as the greatest goal scorer of all time.

He's been in many winning teams. That's true, and often the pivotal outlet. I just think the difference is the other greats were the defining fulcrum of their teams, who drove the whole show from the centre

What difference does it make what position the fulcrum is in as you say. Ronaldo is the fulcrum of that juventus team. Everything turns around
ronaldo.
Juve dont ein that game without him
Ronaldo cant build up play and score. Nobody can.
Involved in 77 knockout goals in 77 knockout games

deaddonkey15

The Golden Miller wrote: »

It's not an arbitrary stat. Top teams are becoming far and few between these days due to finances, but up until the Bayern game he simply didn't score more than one goal in any given game against a top European side. He scored the odd goal here and there, like in a group game with Juve. That's impressive as it is, but poor enough for what many rate as the greatest goal scorer of all time.

He scored two against Arsenal in 2009.

The Golden Miller wrote: »

He's been in many winning teams. That's true, and often the pivotal outlet. I just think the difference is the other greats were the defining fulcrum of their teams, who drove the whole show from the centre

That's pretty much Ronaldo for 9 years at Real Madrid. No coincidence that Real Madrid's form has dropped off a cliff whilst Ronaldo is still winning Champions League ties on his own.