Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

Eod100

Akrasia wrote: »

Order of business will be decided in the morning by Bercow. Usually these votes have been beginning at about 7pm but if there are a large number of amendments to be debated in one day, the speaker might choose to delay the votes..

It's going to be a very long day tomorrow that's for sure.

Even the morning is going to be contentious. I can see at least an hour or two taken up by arguments and accusations of bias about why some amendments were selected but not others

Does Letwin get to decide order now after his amendment passed the other day?

Junkyard Tom

Shelga wrote: »

Why is Kate Hoey a Labour MP?

She was gifted a safe seat by Labour top brass back in the day. She won't have her seat after the next election.

Roger_007

Water John wrote: »

If LB are stepping into positive options, I can't see why they are not attainable.
The EU will have little problem granting an extended extension if the UK want a soft Brexit or a 2nd Ref.
With the voting system tomorrow, they can support two positions.

I wouldn't be too sure of the EU reaction to the outcome of the shenanigans in Westminster tomorrow.
Some of the members, especially the French, might take the view that the prospect of another round of negotiations, (with the uncertainty of any outcome acceptable to the rabble in the HOC), is something they don't want to get into.
I expect anyway that by the end of tomorrow, no clear majority for anything will emerge. On Thursday TM will 'waltz' in and say "I told you so......now will you vote for my deal", (or words to that effect).

Irish Praetorian

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

She was gifted a safe seat by Labour top brass back in the day. She won't have her seat after the next election.

To be fair, and I have to keep saying this, there may well be a whole tranche of Remain-leaning Tories in the same boat.

Spanish Eyes

Shelga wrote: »

Why is Kate Hoey a Labour MP? She sides with the Tories/defies the Labour whip on every single Brexit-related amendment. Was amazed to see she’s been a Labour MP since 1989, in Vauxhall of all places.

She will be deselected for the next GE no question. Or she may retire and move to NI and join the DUP. That seems to be her natural home now.

L1011

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

She will be deselected for the next GE no question. Or she may retire and move to NI and join the DUP. That seems to be her natural home now.

She is actually from NI, so that isn't really that implausible.

Water John

I generally don't favour the idea of deselection but I'd make an exception in her case.

Frank Bullitt

Even her own constituency have had enough.

Roger_007

JRM conversion is complete........just heard on Newsnight.
That's his credibility shot to pieces.

Shelga

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

She will be deselected for the next GE no question. Or she may retire and move to NI and join the DUP. That seems to be her natural home now.

I was thinking that, surely she’ll be deselected for the next GE. She’s a strange one alright, hard Brexit Labour MP from Northern Ireland?? Why on earth does she think Brexit is a good idea? They should have deselected her for the 2017 election tbh. She also said the Irish border problem would be solved if the Republic of Ireland left the EU too. And said the GFA is ‘unsustainable’.

In addition to that, there’s her objection to the ban on fox hunting. She seems to be the antithesis of everything the Labour Party stands for. I don’t get it.

Junkyard Tom

If Kate Hoey was representing her constituents, instead of reflexively supporting the DUP, she'd be seeking the softest of Brexits if not full revocation of Article 50.

Headshot

Roger_007 wrote: »

JRM conversion is complete........just heard on Newsnight.
That's his credibility shot to pieces.

He had credibility in the first place? Mogg constantly lies and only gets away it because of his accent

Mogg is only interested in serving himself let alone the UK PEOPLE

awec

Hoey is a really strange MP.

She's basically a tory, except didn't she once nominate John McDonnell for Labour leader?

Leroy42

Roger_007 wrote: »

JRM conversion is complete........just heard on Newsnight.
That's his credibility shot to pieces.

What? You mean he will lose his credibility just because he did a u-turn?

Come on? The man is a walking hypocrisy. He stated in a HoC speech a number of years ago that any EU Brexit vote should have two votes, one to trigger and one on any deal.

This is the man that launched a coup against TM,then when she won called on her to resign anyway, before the next morning claiming he had total faith in her to deliver Brexit and run the country.

This is the man that twice (at my last count) launched ERG proposals for a way out of the Backstop and how to avoid the issues with the EU, and on each occasion was left with nothing after even a rudimentary review of the 'proposals'.

The one thing that it appears that no Brexiteer can ever lose is credibility.

giveitholly

At what time will this voting start at tomorrow?

FrancieBrady

Any more news on the AG's ruling?

nc6000

giveitholly wrote:

At what time will this voting start at tomorrow?

Hillary Benn just said 7 o'clock on Newsnight.

road_high

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Ray Basset is a 'Senior Fellow on EU Affairs' with the British centre-right 'think tank' [propaganda dissemination] Policy Exchange. I'm not sure what privileges that bestows upon him.

Ah right so he’s on the payroll of hardline brexiters. Explains it all. Could have sorted out his dandruff before going on air surely.

Water John

I think it's 7pm for the vote.
It will be really pathetic if TM falls on her sword and still doesn't get her Deal over the line. What would be the point of that?

road_high

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

If Kate Hoey was representing her constituents, instead of reflexively supporting the DUP, she'd be seeking the softest of Brexits if not full revocation of Article 50.

Such is the deranged Brexit agenda. They remind of kamikaze pilots in WW2.

Dub.

Did Mogg not state only two weeks ago that he would follow the DUP on the WA vote?

Eod100

JRM on front of DM (where else) saying he will back deal.

But there's this too. Nothing is easy with Brexit.

https://twitter.com/krishgm/status/1110673001958252544

Water John

I think they said about 11/12 of ERG had moved. That's nowhere near even a start not to mind the DUP. Who is going to get Bone, Francois, Cash et al, to back TMs Deal?

Eod100

Water John wrote: »

I think they said about 11/12 of ERG had moved. That's nowhere near even a start not to mind the DUP. Who is going to get Bone, Francois, Cash et al, to back TMs Deal?

What's his angle so? Seems a fairly intelligent chap (as much as I dislike him) so hard to think he hasn't done calculations on his position

unit 1

Am I correct in saying that ANY so called proposal that gets a majority in the HoC must include ratifying the wa, and if not will be rejected by the eu.

Failure to ratify the wa means crash out, so no matter how "good" the proposal is there will still be the problem in ratifying the wa.

Eod100

''Yet, I am now willing to support it if the Democratic Unionist Party does''. Ah there we go so he won't be.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-6853609/JACOB-REES-MOGG-Im-ready-Theresa-Mays-deal.html

Joe_ Public

They all face the same dilemma don’t they? If they, like JRM, accept that no deal is off the table then what exactly is it they are doing by continuing to oppose the pm’s deal? That’s the stark question confronting all of them.

Leroy42

JRM moving is big. Johnson appears to be moving as well. Clearly the recent Chequers meeting is having the desired effect. Whether TM's head is the price only time will tell, but the ground is definitely shifting.

Losing the vote last night, and thus allowing the government to lose control of the process, would have concentrated a few minds as well. It comes down to protecting the Tory party. They have had their bun fight, but principles take a back seat to the party.

Boris said tonight that he needed to see change in approach for the 2nd, and he said more important, phase. So it appears that they will go with the TM deal on the basis that it buys them time, keeps them in power and with the hope that stronger resolve and a stronger leader/negotiating team will make up for any set backs.

Shelga

How, HOW can JRM show his face in public if he backs May’s deal. He has said repeatedly that it’s worse than remaining. What he meant was, “the pointless exercise in self-harm that is leaving the EU (on paper), even though we will be a rule taker, is still better than being part of an organisation I despise purely because I am a Tory headcase and I went to Eton and was brought up being told I can have whatever I want, whenever I want it.”

Leroy42

unit 1 wrote: »

Am I correct in saying that ANY so called proposal that gets a majority in the HoC must include ratifying the wa, and if not will be rejected by the eu.

Failure to ratify the wa means crash out, so no matter how "good" the proposal is there will still be the problem in ratifying the wa.

AFAIK, the EU left the door open on that. The UK can look for a longer extension, prior to 12th April, if they can put forward a plan of what they want and how they will achieve it.

The current WA will not to reopened, but should the UK shift its red-lines then the WA, as it stands, will no longer be required.