Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

MadYaker

Here's this awful withrawal agreement, in fact it's so awful I'm going to resign over it. Now will you please all vote for it.

Bonkers.

Hurrache

Enzokk wrote: »

May is not the problem here, Brexit is the problem and you are not going to solve Brexit without either doing harm to the country or upsetting a lot of people.

Absolutely, and it's bizarre that they're willing to vote for the very same deal if she resigns.

The only logic is that I imagine the ERG think they can step in and take control over the trade negotiations and show the EU what's what when there's the Eton crowd in charge of blighty.

joe40

Why is the WA so awful?I know it does not command support because pro leavers don't like the close ties to EU it still involves and pro remain want a softer brexit.
It will be impossible to satisfy both camps.
I know she largely caused the damaged herself by prematurely announcing her red lines which limited her options going forward.
But taking that into account is there any better deal that would be achievable?

Eod100

Itssoeasy wrote: »

But surely the wording of what she said is coming from people in the actual room. If it's the room where the result of the vote of confidence happened last year it's not that big a room. I'm asking how is there a few different wordings from one speech she gave ?

No idea. People focusing on different parts of speech I guess? Journalists having different sources who picked up different things?

ancapailldorcha

Itssoeasy wrote: »

While I won't quote specific examples for fear of getting a talking to from a mod. Lots of things have been popular amongst many groups of people it doesn't mean it's a good thing.

I never said it was good. Just likely.

L1011

What a way to ensure soft-ish brexiters that were supporting it stop. Vote for MV3 and get a hard brexit PM!

Loafing Oaf

Itssoeasy wrote: »

The DUP aren't releasing a statement today. Were they meant to be releasing one today on brexit ? Well they aren't now it seems.

JRM now saying he will vote for the WA if the DUP abstain. Choreographed maneuvers or megaphone diplomacy?

BonnieSituation

She's spectacularly lacking in political astuteness!

Who in their right mind would vote for the WA again (should it ever come back to a vote that is).

Capt'n Midnight

Brexit: Theresa May vows to stand down if deal is passed

Very easy promise to make when you know the DUP got your back

Laura Kuenssberg said a Tory leadership contest could be expected in May. Which bodes well for any extension.


https://twitter.com/iainjwatson/status/1110961803931074560

Headshot

MPs are going to vote any minute now.

Spook_ie

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Theresa May got in because the two others who would have been against her in the final vote pulled out. She didn't run unopposed for Tory party leader.

Last round was still by default

johnnyskeleton

Hurrache wrote: »

Absolutely, and it's bizarre that they're willing to vote for the very same deal if she resigns.

The only logic is that I imagine the ERG think they can step in and take control over the trade negotiations and show the EU what's what when there's the Eton crowd in charge of blighty.

Perhaps they know that there is a real risk of no Brexit, and so are voting for the deal to prevent that, with the resignation of May merely being an excuse so that they can save face and claim somehow that it made some kind of difference. The only people that are looking for her to resign are the ERG as far as I can tell. Labour still seem intent on voting against the deal.

joe40

What is wrong with the Tory party? All the contenders touted to replace May are from the hardline brexiteer. Where are the moderate voices.
The fact that a buffoon like Boris is a serious contender for PM shows how far British politics has fallen

Capt'n Midnight

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

By the way, the petition has elicited a response from Parliament. It will debate the petition on the 1st April 2019. It has also given the below response:

Basically, the same sort of bland and anodyne PR nonsense we've become accustomed to.

Here's the reply to the Leave Petition
https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/229963
More bandness.


It's 21:00 tonight for the vote to not crash out 50 hours later ?

RickBlaine

The reason the WA didn't pass the two votes is due to the WA itself (specifically the backstop) and not TM herself. How can her resignation mitigate the backstop concerns. The backstop will still be part of the WA when she resigns.

It is so stupid and would be a horrible reason for the WA to pass. Once again, an issue as serious as Brexit is being used to deal with internal Tory politics.

devnull

I love the way the government keep banging on about the damage to democracy if certain things are voted for and carried out, when the ballot paper simply asked if the UK would remain a member of the EU. Customs Union, Free Trade areas and EEA etc memberships as a non member still means that the result is upheld.

The argument that leaving and agreeing certain other terms and deals with the EU is not Brexit and therefore democracy is dead is utterly flawed, because the ballot paper didn't ask that kind of question. It is just a presumption that is being made. If they want to ask that question, they should lobby for a referendum doing exactly that.

Indeed, the document written as a result of the Referendum Act 2015, Free Movement, Customs Union, in fact a whole range of options were marked as possible outcomes if the UK voted to no longer be a member of the European Union.Therefore to go for one of these outcomes would be consistent with the referendum text on leave.

devnull

This tweet shows that all rules, honour and ethics are all but dead now and anything is fair game.
https://twitter.com/DExEUgov/status/1110942385775755264

This tweet breaches 2 out of the 4 principles in the Civil Service Code. Honesty & objectivity.

It is deplorable that we are now at the stage where people are now deciding that they are so desperate to get May's deal over the line and thawt the will of the Commons, that they will no go to whatever lengths necessary.

It reminds me a lot about Trump and the USA. Scary times.

Hurrache

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

Brexit: Theresa May vows to stand down if deal is passed

Very easy promise to make when you know the DUP got your back

Laura Kuenssberg said a Tory leadership contest could be expected in May. Which bodes well for any extension.


https://twitter.com/iainjwatson/status/1110961803931074560

Apparently Johnson has told the ERG he's backing May's deal, seems like he's dropped his prerequisites that he stated yesterday as the only reason why he'd support it.

Beechwoodspark

Hurrache wrote: »

Apparently Johnson has told the ERG he's backing May's deal, seems like he's dropped his prerequisites that he stated yesterday as the only reason why he'd support it.

He has his eyes on number 10 it seems.

BobbyBobberson

Boris has just told the ERG he is backing the deal according to the BBC. This was Monday's paper.

https://twitter.com/CharlieCooper8/status/1110974383206613001

The man is incredible.

Kermit.de.frog

The DUP are in the process of getting thrown under the bus and flattened.

RickBlaine

devnull wrote: »

This tweet shows that all rules, honour and ethics are all but dead now and anything is fair game.
https://twitter.com/DExEUgov/status/1110942385775755264

This tweet breaches 2 out of the 4 principles in the Civil Service Code. Honesty & objectivity.

It is deplorable that we are now at the stage where people are now deciding that they are so desperate to get May's deal over the line and thawt the will of the Commons, that they will no go to whatever lengths necessary.

It reminds me a lot about Trump and the USA. Scary times.

That tweet is despicable not least because everything that is mentioned does respect the referendum. As long as the UK is out of the EU, the ref will be respected. That is the only question that was asked and answered by the ref.

Very inappropriate, false and misleading tweet.

Spanish Eyes

Well I am hoping that IF the WA is approved that the backstop remains. Surely it has to.

DUP hopefully not required either to get it over the line. I doubt they would agree with WA anyway.

Kind of BRINO indeed. Well during the transition period anyway. See how that goes. I doubt anyone will notice.

woohoo!!!

Boris as PM, very good chance it'll happen. Unfortunately his blundering would just embarrass the UK further on the world stage but Brexiteers will have to own the mess there'll be nowhere to hide.

Hurrache

Does go to show what many of us have been saying for a long long time, the issue for the Tories is nothing to do with the backstop, it was just a convenient scapegoat.

Junkyard Tom

I wonder will the DUP faithful feel betrayed by BoJo.

Capt'n Midnight

devnull wrote: »

This tweet shows that all rules, honour and ethics are all but dead now and anything is fair game.
twitter.com/DExEUgov/status/1110942385775755264]

This tweet breaches 2 out of the 4 principles in the Civil Service Code. Honesty & objectivity.

It is deplorable that we are now at the stage where people are now deciding that they are so desperate to get May's deal over the line and thawt the will of the Commons, that they will no go to whatever lengths necessary.

It reminds me a lot about Trump and the USA. Scary times.

So the Dept for leaving the EU are trying to create work for themselves ?


And there's also this gem, and it's not even in Washington.
Government buys £12m luxury New York apartment for diplomat

The Foreign Office said it had "secured the best possible deal".

.. the UK Foreign Office said only the consul general and his immediate family will live there.

Another petition that'll be ignored
Halt Brexit For A Public Inquiry

eire4

Hurrache wrote: »

Does go to show what many of us have been saying for a long long time, the issue for the Tories is nothing to do with the backstop, it was just a convenient scapegoat.

Nail on the proverbial head there I think.

Hurrache

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I wonder will the DUP faithful feel betrayed by BoJo.

They were just pawns for May to make up a government, and then for those that aligned with them for political point scoring from the moment they were courted by May.

They'd be playing senior hurling as the phrase goes (if they were willing to acknowledge Irish culture.)

briany

RickBlaine wrote: »

That tweet is despicable not least because everything that is mentioned does respect the referendum. As long as the UK is out of the EU, the ref will be respected. That is the only question that was asked and answered by the ref.

Very inappropriate, false and misleading tweet.

Problem with the referendum was that asking the question as it should have been asked, then it wouldn't have fit on the ballot paper. It's a question with many different permutations of an answer.

It's not actually the EU alone that Brexiteers have a problem with, but a group of connected institutions of European political and economic cooperation.