Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

gooch2k9

Farcical that the agreement between the Tories and DUP is still standing.

Agree with poster who puts the blame on NI voters for the representation they put forth.

I'm more pissed off as no doubt this will drag the uncertainty onwards.

Imreoir2

nice_guy80 wrote: »

NI unionism drags down the UK

You got to admit karma is a bitch

This will be the first time in our history that maintianing the Union with NI will have been to the detrement of the English. When the dust settles, I wonder just how long the union will be allowed to survive. Will the English, in the cold light of day, be willing to remain open to a reoccurance of this disadvantage for the sake of keeping the union intact?

alchemist33

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

The DUP not going to abstain. Stabbing the ERG in the back. What will Jacob do now?

Blame the DUP if theres a no-deal Brexit. Win win

LeinsterDub

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

The DUP not going to abstain. Stabbing the ERG in the back. What will Jacob do now?

If anything the ERG stabbed the DUP in the back

Larbre34

5 mins everybody, to your places please!

bob mcbob

Ok Devil's advocate here. How about

DUP supported Brexit to enhance their Britishness never expecting it would actually happen. Now they realise that a hard Brexit / no-deal would be damaging or even fatal to their Union.

It is clear that the WA is as hard as Brexit is going to be, they oppose it in the knowledge that if this is not passed then the alternatives will be softer. This poses much less risk to the Union.

All the while they then enhance their Britishness by refusing to submit to vassalage.

Professor Moriarty

LeinsterDub wrote: »

If anything the ERG stabbed the DUP in the back

Dunno. Mogg obviously thought he had a deal today. It's great to see Mogg's mask melting away and his pathetic and self-serving 'principles' being exposed for what they are.

Infini

robindch wrote: »

https://twitter.com/TechnicallyRon/status/1111007844827123714

Thanos for PM! By the time hes done only half of parliment will remain!

Imreoir2 wrote: »

This will be the first time in our history that maintianing the Union with NI will have been to the detrement of the English. When the dust settles, I wonder just how long the union will be allowed to survive. Will the English, in the cold light of day, be willing to remain open to a reoccurance of this disadvantage for the sake of keeping the union intact?

I believe the classic old saying is "Karma is a Bítch!". DUP stupidity and lack of any coherent intelligence (eg. Sammy Shítstirrer) ultimately leading to a UI would be better for everyone (except the DUP). At least their kind of toxicity wouldn't survive in the long run because if the North was part of a UI people who actually gave a shít about their area's and communities regardless of what side they were previously would get elected and things would get done not this headbanger nonsense that's paralysed the place for the last few years. Added bonus would be likely that not only would the DUP be relegated to pbp tier but likely the same level from SF would too as competent people cut into their vote.

LeinsterDub

Imreoir2 wrote: »

This will be the first time in our history that maintianing the Union with NI will have been to the detrement of the English. When the dust settles, I wonder just how long the union will be allowed to survive. Will the English, in the cold light of day, be willing to remain open to a reoccurance of this disadvantage for the sake of keeping the union intact?

Maintaining the union has been to the detriment of England since basically Ireland 'joined' what with the numerous risings, the locals refusing to not staving to death. If you want to focus solely on NI it costs a fortune and dragged them into a bloody civil war for 30 years

Larbre34

Imreoir2 wrote: »

This will be the first time in our history that maintianing the Union with NI will have been to the detrement of the English. When the dust settles, I wonder just how long the union will be allowed to survive. Will the English, in the cold light of day, be willing to remain open to a reoccurance of this disadvantage for the sake of keeping the union intact?

I think the entire Brexit debate, and I mean 20+ years worth, has shown that the English specifically couldn't give a continental flying damn about the fate or future of Northern Ireland. Whitehall always did largely because of muscle memory, but any running on the actual social and economic elevation of all the people of Northern Ireland and their long term future stability was made by Irish Governments and their civil service analysts and advisors.

Capt'n Midnight

Extension passed 441 vs 105 with 50 hours to go.

Waiting on the rest of the counts

devnull

Ayes 441
Noes 105

Lot of abstentions there.

Majority 336.

Brexit is now officially delayed until April in UK Law if no deal is approved or May if TMs deal is.

Irish Praetorian

Imreoir2 wrote: »

This will be the first time in our history that maintianing the Union with NI will have been to the detrement of the English. When the dust settles, I wonder just how long the union will be allowed to survive. Will the English, in the cold light of day, be willing to remain open to a reoccurance of this disadvantage for the sake of keeping the union intact?

Ho-ho XD You should take a deeper look at the history of our wonderful little archipelago; trust me the Unionist community has been a pain in the backside for the London government since the time of the much vaunted King Billy and perhaps even before that.

Professor Moriarty

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Maintaining the union has been to the detriment of England since basically Ireland 'joined' what with the numerous risings, the locals refusing to not staving to death. If you want to focus solely on NI it costs a fortune and dragged them into a bloody civil war for 30 years

As Churchill said "We have always found the Irish to be a bit odd. They refuse to be English."

Spanish Eyes

Another suspension? Did I hear correctly.

Honestly farce ain't the word now.

devnull

PArliament suspended as other votes are not having their toals in yet.

May suggest that some are too close to call and need recounts/.

Eod100

devnull wrote: »

Ayes 441
Noes 105

Lot of abstentions there.

Majority 336.

Brexit is now officially delayed until April in UK Law if no deal is approved or May if TMs deal is.

Wonder how many who used dangerous language about betraying Brexit by dealying it voted for it..

Imreoir2

bob mcbob wrote: »

Ok Devil's advocate here. How about

DUP supported Brexit to enhance their Britishness never expecting it would actually happen. Now they realise that a hard Brexit / no-deal would be damaging or even fatal to their Union.

It is clear that the WA is as hard as Brexit is going to be, they oppose it in the knowledge that if this is not passed then the alternatives will be softer. This poses much less risk to the Union.

All the while they then enhance their Britishness by refusing to submit to vassalage.

You give them far too much credit. The deal gives the EU by way of Ireland a say in NI. That alone is more than enough for the DUP to go into a fit of saying no to everything.

The DUP would be happy with no-deal as long as NI is treated the same as the rest of the UK and Ireland is not given any kind of role in the affairs of NI. While the threat this would pose to NI's place in the union is quite real, the DUP are programed not to believe that NI will ever leave the Union. It's like me asking you to put creedence in the notion that the sky might fall on your head.

Larbre34

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Another suspension? Did I hear correctly.

Honestly farce ain't the word now.

Its something like 5,000 paper votes to be counted and confirmed by a limited staff. Thats way out of the norm and who wants to get this one wrong....?

20silkcut

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

As Churchill said "We have always found the Irish to be a bit odd. They refuse to be English."

They were the ones who rejected the pope. In the great brexit of the 16th century.

Spanish Eyes

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Another suspension? Did I hear correctly.

Honestly farce ain't the word now.

8 questions x 600 odd mps is a lot to count and check.

Imreoir2

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

Ho-ho XD You should take a deeper look at the history of our wonderful little archipelago; trust me the Unionist community has been a pain in the backside for the London government since the time of the much vaunted King Billy and perhaps even before that.

Being a nuisance is one thing, but this is the first time that the political union has caused a signifncant disruption and frustration of English policies.

Hurrache

Interesting point raised on Sky, DUP worried about the upcoming local elections as apparently the funds aren't coming in to their war chest from their usual business and farming sources.

MikeSoys

Larbre34 wrote: »

Its something like 5,000 paper votes to be counted and confirmed by a limited staff. Thats way out of the norm and who wants to get this one wrong....?

just wondering are the folks in the commons getting overtime any time after 6pm?... they do like dragging this thing out a bit

listermint

Hurrache wrote: »

Interesting point raised on Sky, DUP worried about the upcoming local elections as apparently the funds aren't coming in to their war chest from their usual business and farming sources.

I'd imagine that's fairly true. Businesses would not be happy with the positions being taken and certainly farming community would not be happy either.

Imreoir2

Hurrache wrote: »

Interesting point raised on Sky, DUP worried about the upcoming local elections as apparently the funds aren't coming in to their war chest from their usual business and farming sources.

Good, hopefully they see a backlash for their actions.

Kermit.de.frog

The DUP seems to think the "treaty" can still be changed.

Cloud cuckoo land.

LeinsterDub

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Being a nuisance is one thing, but this is the first time that the political union has caused a signifncant disruption and frustration of English policies.

I suggest you read about the attempts to achieve home rule.

Water John

7 pm is the usual voting time in the HOC.

Shelga

I still don’t understand the DUP’s objection. What barriers would there be between NI a and GB if both are in a backstop/customs union?