Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

A Dub in Glasgo

Enzokk wrote: »

Anna Soubry is trying to make the case that these votes were a two step process and the votes that had the most support is taken forward. So that would be a customs union and second vote?

Possibly

Infini

Inquitus wrote: »

People are missing the point the idea was to bring back the closest ones on Monday to further concentrate minds. Also a lot of them got a lot closer than May's WA.

Agreed. 2 were FAR closer than May's deal literally a matter of 20 or so votes. The rest have been ruled to have significant majority rejections. We at least have some idea of how parliment can proceed but the WA is dead. No deal is unlikely to happen either.

devnull

There are some very cowardly MPs out there, honestly they should hang their head in shame.

Well over 100 people abstaining on some of those votes, clearly don't want their name to be published as voting for something they probably want to, they value not looking bad to their peers than doing what they think. Laughable.

Eod100

Petition at 5,902,000 + at this stage, it's going up pretty steadily this evening.

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

LuckyLloyd

It's completely and utterly ridiculous that they failed to unite around a single idea.

Phoebas

devnull wrote: »

In a few words.

It's May's deal vs No Deal still.

The options that got the most votes were the Customs Union or the Second Referendum, so soft Brexit or no Brexit seem to be the direction of travel.

I think that makes it a clear choice between soft/no Brexit and TM's deal. That makes MV3 more likely to actually pass.

Eod100

https://twitter.com/faisalislam/status/1111022229544931328

Loafing Oaf

devnull wrote: »

In a few words.

It's May's deal vs No Deal still.

May's deal is on life support. It's no deal or some form of extension, and the decision ultimately rests with the same Teresa May.

Water John

Beth Rigby pointed out that CU and 2nd Ref both got more votes for them than the WA. So Parliament wants a soft Brexit or No Brexit.
Ken Clarke put forward CU so that it would be on the ballot paper.

A Dub in Glasgo

Quin_Dub wrote: »

But the EU will say no to that and rightly so..

The only thing they can go to the EU with now is an Election.

Basically the message is - "The current Government and Parliament are utterly incapable of resolving this issue, so we are going to go back to the People and ask them to choose a new parliament and government in the hopes that a new one is capable of consensus"

As an aside , assuming the UK do get a long (1-2yr) extension and therefore participate in the elections , if they ultimately leave at the end of that period.. What happens to the seats they would now hold?

I know, I missed a couple of quotation marks. The EU will reject if they do not decide next week and it will be no deal on 12 April

Don't know about the seats, that could happen any time with any member state given Article 50 appears silent on it

awec

You'd need the patience of a saint to stand and talk in the commons and not turn around and tell some heckler to shut up.

Headshot

That was very nicely played by Margaret Beckett.

Imreoir2

Oat23 wrote: »

Parliament for the past few months: ASK US WHAT WE WANT


*Tonight*


Parliament: WE DON'T KNOW WHAT WE WANT

May can presumably take some grim satisfication from it having been shown that she is not solely responsible for this mess, she is not preventing Parliament from expressing it's will, parliament has no will to express other than blocking any possible outcome.

We will get to the point whereby a vote against her deal is literally a vote for a no-deal Brexit. That is not TM's fault at this point, they had the chance to choose another path and dropped the ball.

Enzokk

Guys, this was not about finding a way forward tonight but laying out a multitude of options and to find the ones that had the most support and then move forward with those for another vote again. In that case both the customs union and second vote had more votes for it than May's deal and if her deal is not dead those options is not either. Brexiteers will not be happy though, their choices would be a second vote, a permanent customs union or May's deal. There will not be no-deal.

Joe_ Public

Listening to Henry Newman on sky throughout the night, accept he’ll forget more about british and European politics than I’ll ever know, but seems more than a bit naive when it comes to the dup and Northern Ireland, going on about ongoing negotiations and their concerns being addressed before the vote. How can such a clued in guy be so out of touch on that one issue?

sunflower3

If the ken Clarke UK customs wide union is eventually passed, is that the worst option for Ireland? In other words a hard border is more likely?

Water John

The indicative votes have made a positive contribution to the debate. The process will move further on Monday.

Remember Newman has a future in the Tory Party to keep a watch on.

briany

Deleted User wrote: »

Any chance of a new British political party alignment emerging along pro- and anti-EU lines?

Yes and no.

Yes in the short term, but I don't see Europe as being the line that will define British politics for the next decades. After this rabble is sorted out and it lands one way or the other, it'll be pretty much as you were.

They are all such myopic clowns, with their stupid parliamentary games. Corbyn and May have just had another exchange and all the MPs around them are laughing and jeering. Nero and fiddling while Rome burns screams loudly from this one. Incredible, incredible, incredible.

What complete fúcking arseholes, each and every one of them (Ken Clarke excepted).

Professor Moriarty

Where's Jacob? Surely he would want to explain which way he's going to vote on the WA now that the DUP aren't abstaining? Battery gone on his mobile no doubt.

Spanish Eyes

awec wrote: »

You'd need the patience of a saint to stand and talk in the commons and not turn around and tell some heckler to shut up.

They are worse than kids in a playground. It is laughable, but probably tradition or something allows this kind of heckling, and if taken away well all hell will break loose.

Mad that there are not sufficient seats in the Commons for every member either. Ah well that's probably tradition too.

Amirani

sunflower3 wrote: »

If the ken Clarke UK customs wide union is eventually passed, is that the worst option for Ireland? In other words a hard border is more likely?

Nope, Customs Union allows us to keep an open border.

Infini

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

May's deal is on life support. It's no deal or some form of extension, and the decision ultimately rests with the same Teresa May.

May's deal is dead. If there's anything to be had for this the CU and 2nd referendum had the least resistance and are the 2 likeliest options outside of a General Election. There's also the fact that they'll be put under far more pressure to decide especially if the final decision is one option or the other not a accept or reject excercise because they HAVE to make a decision within 2 weeks to avoid a no deal crash.

lawred2

Catching up here but it seems to me that they pretty much voted against everything

blackcard

On the vote to stay in a UK wide customs union, did the DUP vote for or against this?

Roger_007

lawred2 wrote: »

Catching up here but it seems to me that they pretty much voted against everything

Yep, all 8 proposals which went to a vote were defeated. Not a surprise when you're dealing with a rabble like that.

Larbre34

lawred2 wrote: »

Catching up here but it seems to me that they pretty much voted against everything

They absolutely did.

However, the Public Vote and full Customs Union (very soft Brexit) did the best, and got more votes than May's WA did in the twice it was tabled.

Imreoir2

Enzokk wrote: »

Guys, this was not about finding a way forward tonight but laying out a multitude of options and to find the ones that had the most support and then move forward with those for another vote again. In that case both the customs union and second vote had more votes for it than May's deal and if her deal is not dead those options is not either. Brexiteers will not be happy though, their choices would be a second vote, a permanent customs union or May's deal. There will not be no-deal.

Given what the Speaker recently said, what basis is there for bringing back on Monday a choice that was rejected tonight?

I wonder will May collapse the govt instead of a referendum featuring a two way choice of customs union,/revoke or her deal/no deal Brexit

Headshot

Parliament tv is so ****e

It's constantly losing connection and can't make up it's mind

so fits in perfectly with UK politics