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Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

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    #4292
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,820 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    The whole thing is a great big farce at this stage.

    They actually just rejected all types of brexit, and rejected no brexit. How do you work with this?


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    #4293
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,189 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    An Ciarraioch wrote: »
    CU would have passed if SNP hadn't abstained:

    https://commonsvotes.digiminster.com/Divisions/Details/658

    or the 9 Lib Dems


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    #4294
    Laois_Man
    Registered Users Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    Imreoir2 wrote: »
    Will they be able to get sufficient votes for a GE? I don't see much reason to assume it will happen.

    A general election doesn't have to be passed by the HoC. May can just call one as she did in 2017


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    #4295
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,421 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Letwin supports the WA. People shouldn't be attaching false motives to him.
    This selecting options is a fallback position, in his mind. Others who supported him in the process, had various reasons.
    The vitriolic opposition by some MPs was saddening.


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    #4296
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,666 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Some things astonishing from that
    - DUP voting against customs union.
    - Lib Dems and SNP abstaining.

    Seems like some of these voters may have decided to vote for their most favoured options and abstained on other stuff that they like in the hope that it doesn't pass at the expense at what they really want. Suggests even SNP and the Lib Dems are playing games now as well, which is a little surprising.


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    #4297
    Charles Babbage
    Registered Users Posts: 5,695 ✭✭✭Charles Babbage


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    Surely it's pretty obvious what can and should happen - Ken Clark's content proposal + Margaret Beckets process proposal on Monday


    Those are also two serious politicians.

    Approve withdrawal deal with permanent customs union. The referendum for this deal or stay in EU.


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    #4298
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    MadYaker wrote: »
    Bercow is the only competent one

    I find him overbearing. It's just a massive stage for that guy. All about putting on a show.


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    #4299
    L1011
    Registered Users Posts: 68,786 ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Laois_Man wrote: »
    A general election doesn't have to be passed by the HoC. May can just call one as she did in 2017

    That was passed by parliament. Fixed Term Parliament Act requires it


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    #4300
    Enzokk
    Registered Users Posts: 5,697 ✭✭✭Enzokk


    Can I also just say that I would not be surprised if MPs didn't understand what was happening tonight and they weren't aware on what and how they were supposed to be voting. Seeing that there was no whipping (AFAIK) some MPs may have abstained or voted for something they would not again. So as an exercise to reduce the options I think it was successful, even with nothing being agreed. Even if it was it would still be confirmed with another vote and may not have been successful at that later stage.


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    #4301
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,421 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Devnull yes there was considerable negative voting to boost a group's preferred option.


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    #4302
    Itssoeasy
    Registered Users Posts: 39,930 ✭✭✭✭Itssoeasy


    Charles Babbage wrote: »
    Those are also two serious politicians.

    Approve withdrawal deal with permanent customs union. The referendum for this deal or stay in EU.

    Yeah Kenneth Clark has probably forgotten more and seen more than any of the MPs bar Dennis skinner of labour so I wouldn't try and out fox him on anything political.


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    #4303
    awec
    Administrators Posts: 53,820 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I find him overbearing. It's just a massive stage for that guy. All about putting on a show.
    He does a phenomenal job to be honest.


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    #4304
    First Up
    Registered Users Posts: 14,822 ✭✭✭✭First Up


    Remember that these are just indicative votes. The carry the weight of an opinion poll - nothing more. They reveal the hopeless confusion within British politics but nothing else.

    Nothing could have "passed" tonight. The best that can happen is that the results give the government something to work on.


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    #4305
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,666 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Water John wrote: »
    Devnull yes there was considerable negative voting to boost a group's preferred option.

    Yeah - having 8 options on the ballot paper tonight probably want against Clarke and Beckett. If there was only theirs they'd probably both have passed but the fact there was too man encouraged tactical voting and spread the votes out too thin.


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    #4306
    Anteayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 886 ✭✭✭Anteayer


    Sky News is basically running May's political obituary at the moment recapping on the a career that could have been.


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    #4307
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    You can be sure that if the Customs Union proposal makes it to round two the SNP will back it.

    Yeh? Why didn’t they now?


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    #4308
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Kate Hoey obviously slept through proceedings. I'm being kind here.


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    #4309
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,216 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    awec wrote: »
    He does a phenomenal job to be honest.

    I think so too. He gets a bit carried away with the theatre of it at times but if you actually listen to what he's saying he's always clear, logical and sure footed.


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    #4310
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,666 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    First Up wrote: »
    Remember that these are just indicative votes. The carry the weight of an opinion poll - nothing more. They reveal the hopeless confusion within British politics but nothing else.

    Nothing could have "passed" tonight. The best that can happen is that the results give the government something to work on.

    Some people abstained from stuff they actually support tonight, because of the fact that they support another option more. If their prefered option wasn't on the table they'd probably have voted for a Customs Union for instance.


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    #4311
    Infini
    Registered Users Posts: 4,573 ✭✭✭Infini


    devnull wrote: »
    Yeah - having 8 options on the ballot paper tonight probably want against Clarke and Beckett. If there was only theirs they'd probably both have passed but the fact there was too man encouraged tactical voting and spread the votes out too thin.

    On the other hand by having a 2 stage process it's basically eliminated the worst options from the board by significant margins leaving only the sane one's on the board for a 2nd vote on Monday. Additionally it now means over the next 5 days more pressure will be put on them to agree to one or the other.


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    #4312
    Franz Von Peppercorn
    Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    First Up wrote: »
    Remember that these are just indicative votes. The carry the weight of an opinion poll - nothing more. They reveal the hopeless confusion within British politics but nothing else.

    Nothing could have "passed" tonight. The best that can happen is that the results give the government something to work on.

    What needs to happen to make the votes binding?


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    #4313
    Joe_ Public
    Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    Enzokk wrote: »
    Can I also just say that I would not be surprised if MPs didn't understand what was happening tonight and they weren't aware on what and how they were supposed to be voting. Seeing that there was no whipping (AFAIK) some MPs may have abstained or voted for something they would not again. So as an exercise to reduce the options I think it was successful, even with nothing being agreed. Even if it was it would still be confirmed with another vote and may not have been successful at that later stage.

    Did lab not whip for the Beckett motion? Thought I’d heard earlier they were?


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    #4314
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I find him overbearing. It's just a massive stage for that guy. All about putting on a show.
    The position is one for a showman tbh. But behind the showmanship is a man on top of his job and scrupulously non-partisan.


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    #4315
    Water John
    Registered Users Posts: 21,421 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Once you announce you're going, you're finished.


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    #4316
    A Dub in Glasgo
    Registered Users Posts: 17,189 ✭✭✭✭A Dub in Glasgo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I find him overbearing. It's just a massive stage for that guy. All about putting on a show.

    The whole thing is about show and he is definitely the most competent at it


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    #4317
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,666 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    Yeh? Why didn’t they now?

    Because they wanted something else more than they want this, and they didn't want to boost the numbers of another option other than their favoured one, in case it meant that option got more support than their favoured.


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    #4318
    MadYaker
    Registered Users Posts: 12,216 ✭✭✭✭MadYaker


    Bercow's the only person stopping the proceedings from descending into utter chaos and he's had to make a few massive calls under huge pressure. Big cajones.


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    #4319
    devnull
    Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators Posts: 11,666 Mod ✭✭✭✭devnull


    Infini wrote: »
    On the other hand by having a 2 stage process it's basically eliminated the worst options from the board by significant margins leaving only the sane one's on the board for a 2nd vote on Monday. Additionally it now means over the next 5 days more pressure will be put on them to agree to one or the other.

    Indeed, but May's deal will be voted for before those options now, and if May's deal passes, as unlikely as it is, these things will not go back to another vote.


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    #4320
    LeinsterDub
    Registered Users Posts: 8,229 ✭✭✭LeinsterDub


    Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »
    Yeh? Why didn’t they now?

    https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1111011486426644480

    Basically this


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    #4321
    Eod100
    Registered Users Posts: 11,786 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Eod100 wrote: »
    Petition at 5,902,000 + at this stage, it's going up pretty steadily this evening.

    https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

    Has no passed the 5,906,000 + mark


This discussion has been closed.
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