Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

woohoo!!!

Bercow will probably have to spell out some options to government to get an altered MV3 vote up.

Donald Trump

Strazdas wrote: »

The Washington Post had a good article at the weekend about how No Deal was never mentioned once during the referendum campaign and about how it represents the complete failure of the Brexit ie "Brexit is a disaster, so let's just crash out with No Deal and to hell with the consequences".

The idea that the British public voted for it is laughable.

I agree and I don't.


It is true that the "leave" position was full of lies and untruths.


The voters may not have understood or bothered to inform themselves before voting. But they did vote and if they misunderstood their importance of their vote and voted flippantly then it should be an important lesson to us all.


So I do think that they blindly and stupidly voted for Brexit. A bit like signing a contract without bothering to read it.


The fault is with the politicians for multiple reasons:
1) Abdicating their responsibility to represent and make decisions
2) Following the outcome of the non-binding referndum
3) Not informing the population about the reality before the election.



Even though the people "voted" for it. The politicians should accept responsibility and stop it. If they needed another referendum to give them more courage to do it then they should have.

robinph

They have to have a vote by 5pm on if they are coming back to work tomorrow after debating the reasons for doing so. An hour to go and the government hasn't told them the reason for coming back tomorrow yet as they are still presumably arguing in No 10!

Podge_irl

Donald Trump wrote: »

I agree and I don't.


It is true that the "leave" position was full of lies and untruths.


The voters may not have understood or bothered to inform themselves before voting. But they did vote and if they misunderstood their importance of their vote and voted flippantly then it should be an important lesson to us all.


So I do think that they blindly and stupidly voted for Brexit. A bit like signing a contract without bothering to read it.


The fault is with the politicians for multiple reasons:
1) Abdicating their responsibility to represent and make decisions
2) Following the outcome of the non-binding referndum
3) Not informing the population about the reality before the election.



Even though the people "voted" for it. The politicians should accept responsibility and stop it. If they needed another referendum to give them more courage to do it then they should have.

It's not about whether or not they voted for Brexit. Nothing beyond a tiny amount of people could have voted for a no deal Brexit as it was considered a laughable suggestion at the time.

Eod100

Think original agreement was WA and political declaration but recent one looks as though it needs to be WA.


https://twitter.com/adamfleming/status/1111275657848385536

Strazdas

Podge_irl wrote: »

It's not about whether or not they voted for Brexit. Nothing beyond a tiny amount of people could have voted for a no deal Brexit as it was considered a laughable suggestion at the time.

No Deal represents a radically changed narrative. It equates to the total failure of Brexit (not that any of its supporters can admit this) and a desire to "Let's get the hell out of the EU anyway, even though the Brexit process has failed".

Joe_ Public

Eod100 wrote: »

Think original agreement was WA and political declaration but recent one looks as though it needs to be WA.


https://twitter.com/adamfleming/status/1111275657848385536

Seems pretty clear that by decoupling PD from WA they hope to meet speakers requirement for being a different motion. God only knows what is going on in the discussions with the dup, though.

eire4

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

Fun and games in the Scottish Parliament with Sturgeon toying with the Tories over May

https://twitter.com/mabonelis/status/1111244661341986817

That is classic. It will be interesting to see what path Sturgeon takes once the dust does finally settle in terms of any potential moves towards a Scottish independence referendum and subsequent attempt to rejoin the EU.

Donald Trump

Podge_irl wrote: »

It's not about whether or not they voted for Brexit. Nothing beyond a tiny amount of people could have voted for a no deal Brexit as it was considered a laughable suggestion at the time.

You miss my point.


The people voted for change of status quo without bothering to get a definition of what they would be changing to, or else due to believing the lies they were fed. That's all.



They signed a contact without reading it. A contract with a lot of fine print and a lots of blank pages of "TBD". (Yes, in this case, had it been a contract, or indeed a binding referendum, the result would have been null and void due to lies)

brickster69

Great to see Euro-tunnel prepared to use smart border controls at the frontier.

https://twitter.com/mcgheeianmcghee/status/1110218554153074693

A Dub in Glasgo

brickster69 wrote: »

Great to see Euro-tunnel prepared to use smart border controls at the frontier.

You do realise Eurotunnel is one fixed line into France?

prawnsambo

brickster69 wrote: »

Great to see Euro-tunnel prepared to use smart border controls at the frontier.

https://twitter.com/mcgheeianmcghee/status/1110218554153074693

Yes. It's extremely smart. So smart that it can unload trucks to check them. And of course it also needs smart barriers to operate on a stop/go basis. because when it's go it's fine, when it's stop, not so much.

Open border

Headshot

Did Labour kick any of the MP's out for going against their whip?

Surely they would be some punishment for going against what labour proposed yesterday(especially the confirmation referendum)

Podge_irl

Donald Trump wrote: »

You miss my point.


The people voted for change of status quo without bothering to get a definition of what they would be changing to, or else due to believing the lies they were fed. That's all.



They signed a contact without reading it. A contract with a lot of fine print and a lots of blank pages of "TBD". (Yes, in this case, had it been a contract, or indeed a binding referendum, the result would have been null and void due to lies)

Strazdas' point was simply that any narrative that the people voted for any form of no-deal Brexit is an outright lie. There is no reading of history that would support the viewpoint. The idea that the British public voted for No Deal is indeed laughable.

Regardless of the myriad other problems with the referendum, a no-deal exit was considered to be on the lunatic fringes during the campaign and there is absolutely no mandate for it.

Joe_ Public

Headshot wrote: »

Did Labour kick any of the MP's out for going against their whip?

Surely they would be some punishment for going against what labour proposed yesterday(especially the confirmation referendum)

Did they whip though? Not sure they did, one of shadow cabinet resigned.

prawnsambo

Just looking at all that work going on in Calais and presumably at other ports in France and elsewhere. It's quite incredible that this cost has been imposed on everyone because of this. But 'taking back control'.

An Ciarraioch

Less than 20 minutes remaining, and still no clarity as to the plans for tomorrow ...

Headshot

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Did they whip though? Not sure they did, one of shadow cabinet resigned.

Yes Im pretty sure they did and there was abstains which are disgraceful tbh

Im not a fan of abstains at all tbh

Headshot

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Less than 20 minutes remaining, and still no clarity as to the plans for tomorrow ...

I heard there's a declaration at 5pm on what's going to happen

ilovesmybrick

On top of the other posters mentioning small checkpoints popping up at ferry borders today, I also noticed that the BBC podcasts I listen to have for the first time began dropping targeted ads re. Brexit into the feeds. "Are you a UK national living in Austria....please visit this site." Probably something that should have been done sooner, but it was a little disconcerting to hear.

brickster69

A Dub in Glasgo wrote: »

You do realise Eurotunnel is one fixed line into France?

Yes, but it is a very busy one. Quite positive seeing technology speeding things up i thought.

farmchoice

Headshot wrote: »

I heard there's a declaration at 5pm on what's going to happen

i see andrea leadsom is after arriving into the house and had a word in the ear of the clerk and sat down on the front bench

lawred2

brickster69 wrote: »

Great to see Euro-tunnel prepared to use smart border controls at the frontier.

https://twitter.com/mcgheeianmcghee/status/1110218554153074693

the tagline for that tweeter includes

I likes balance not 1 sided EU propaganda bull****!

ok then

ilovesmybrick

Vote going ahead tomorrow according to Bercow as it's changed enough in his opinion.

farmchoice

bercow confirms they can put mv3 again if they want

lawred2

ilovesmybrick wrote: »

Vote going ahead tomorrow according to Bercow as it's changed enough in his opinion.

what were those changes?

farmchoice

as discussed here no DP with the WA for tomorrows vote.

Eod100

And still might not have the numbers..

Headshot

lawred2 wrote: »

what were those changes?

It's not the full MV and only the backstop vote

joe40

farmchoice wrote: »

bercow confirms they can put mv3 again if they want

How has it changed, or is that known at this stage