Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

Balanadan

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

In January, Barnier said that the EU is willing to reopen talks if May dropped some of her red lines. Article

I don't think that effects the withdrawal agreement (divorce papers) though. That just affects the political declaration and future negotiations. The still have to sign the divorce papers before both parties can do more work on the future relationship.

Theresa May said again today that regardless of what trajectory the House of Commons wants to follow, if they want any sort of a deal, they must pass the withdrawal agreement.

ancapailldorcha

Memes and one-liners deleted.

Professor Moriarty

Balanadan wrote: »

I don't think that effects the withdrawal agreement (divorce papers) though. That just affects the political declaration and future negotiations. The still have to sign the divorce papers before both parties can do more work on the future relationship.

Theresa May said again today that regardless of what trajectory the House of Commons wants to follow, if they want any sort of a deal, they must pass the withdrawal agreement.

It does fundamentally affect the Withdrawal Agreement. If, in the morning, the British Government stated that it would like a Customs Union then that would mean the backstop, which is in the WA, could be revised. Juncker told May this in January. So, if May drops some red lines, then the WA can be renegotiated.

eire4

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Nigel giving the crowd a load of old crap in Westminister today. The crowd included UKIP, EDL and Trump supporters. They were joined by a couple of Loyalist Flute & Drum bands. Of course.

I think you could sum up all those different groups with one word and that word would be: Hate!

Professor Moriarty

eire4 wrote: »

I think you could sum up all those different groups with one word and that word would be: Hate!

Or incoherent rage.

Laois_Man

A little concern I have is that SOME people are tactically engineering a long extension, giving them all of the benefits of that 2-year transition period, but without signing up to any divorce (perhaps to engineer another extension or a few extensions after that), they get more time to progress trade deals (and the UK are insisting they have the legal right to do so with any country!). Under decent leadership, they might even start to prepare better at home - then when they are ready, they might be thinking they will by then be in a significantly stronger position to threaten a no deal brexit if offered a deal they don't like.

Just a theory!

Lackey

Headshot wrote: »

Seems be a really poor turn out for the Brexit march compared to the peoples vote referendum march

Streets appear fairly full to me, watching sky news

Professor Moriarty

Laois_Man wrote: »

A little concern I have is that SOME people are tactically engineering a long extension, giving them all of the benefits of that 2-year transition period, but without signing up to any divorce (perhaps to engineer another extension or a few extensions after that), they get more time to progress trade deals (and the UK are insisting they have the legal right to do so with any country!). Under decent leadership, they might even start to prepare better at home - then when they are ready, they might be thinking they will by then be in a significantly stronger position to threaten a no deal brexit if offered a deal they don't like.

Just a theory!

I'm afraid there is a fatal flaw in your argument right there. Gove and Johnson are incapable of providing leadership. Rhetoric yes, leadership no.

Headshot

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Nigel giving the crowd a load of old crap in Westminister today. The crowd included UKIP, EDL and Trump supporters. They were joined by a couple of Loyalist Flute & Drum bands. Of course.

Tony Robinson was there, says alot doesnt it....

You cannot take anything serious from UKIP when they have someone like Tony in their party

Professor Moriarty

Headshot wrote: »

Tony Robinson was there, says alot doesnt it....

You cannot take anything serious from UKIP when they have someone like Tony in their party

They've taken a serious lurch to the right and will suffer electorally as a result. Hopefully. You know you're far right when Nigel feels he can't join your party.

Laois_Man

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

I'm afraid there is a fatal flaw in your argument right there. Gove and Johnson are incapable of providing leadership. Rhetoric yes, leadership no.

That's not what they think though!

Headshot

Headshot wrote: »

Tony Robinson was there, says alot doesnt it....

You cannot take anything serious from UKIP when they have someone like Tony in their party

Tony Robinson?
Baldrick?
At least there's a cunning plan happening somewhere!

Headshot

Deleted User wrote: »

Tony Robinson?
Baldrick?
At least there's a cunning plan happening somewhere!

Sorry ment Tommy of course

Marengo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Tony Robinson?
Baldrick?
At least there's a cunning plan happening somewhere!

Brilliant! Was just thinking the same

Laois_Man

A very important new learning (for me anyway) thanks to Ian Dunt (editor of politics.co.uk) who was on Drivetime earlier

Using standing order 14 (invoked this week to take control of parliament from Theresa May's government with respect to debate), can be extended to also apply to a legislation as well as just debates - and they can use it to completely remove Theresa May's and her Governments ability to prevent the passing of the legislation

This week was the first time in about 140 years that standing order 14 was invoked. But it has never been invoked to force legislation. It would without any doubt be the end of Theresa May's premiership!

I had been thinking May would not pay any heed to the indicative votes. I hadn't realized they had this extra power to force it thru whether she likes it or not.

Mr.Wemmick

The no-deal Brexit ferries started running today on their government £46.6 million contract with Britany Ferries. Other contracts worth millions were also awarded to other shipping firms.

How Chris Grayling is still in his job is beyond me. What an idiot.

MrFresh

Channel 4 interviewing a Labour MP who reckons the 5 MP who voted against the 3 line whip should resign. Says thee's no discipline in Parliament at the moment. Can't disagree with her there.

Hurrache

Hurrache wrote: »

Well this seems to come from left field
https://twitter.com/OFOCBrexit/status/1111666866114707456?s=19

Repeating the theme in an interview with Nicholas Watt.

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1111682050707345410

Junkyard Tom

Jon Snow on Channel 4 News just now standing outside Westminster at the pro-Brexit protest:

'I've never seen so many white people in the one place'.

Haha!

Headshot

MrFresh wrote: »

Channel 4 interviewing a Labour MP who reckons the 5 MP who voted against the 3 line whip should resign. Says thee's no discipline in Parliament at the moment. Can't disagree with her there.

It's bang on

There has to be punishment other wise other MPs will see there's no repercussions and will continue to vote against the whip.

At least the conservatives MPs who voted for the indicative resigned from government and I have alot of respect for them

Infini

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Repeating the theme in an interview with Nicholas Watt.

https://twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1111682050707345410

Well look who it is?! The Hypocrite! 3 years late too!
Theres only one reason they're changing tone now.
££££
Nothing more nothing less and I hope the ulster buisness and farming community blacklist them for life for their stupidity.

A Dub in Glasgo

Headshot wrote: »

It's bang on

There has to be punishment other wise other MPs will see there's no repercussions and will continue to vote against the whip.

At least the conservatives MPs who voted for the indicative resigned from government and I have alot of respect for them

Considering the leader of the LP made it his mission to vote against the whip, it is hardly surprising that other folk see the merit in it

FrancieBrady

Infini wrote: »

Well look who it is?! The Hypocrite! 3 years late too!
Theres only one reason they're changing tone now.
££££
Nothing more nothing less and I hope the ulster buisness and farming community blacklist them for life for their stupidity.

I seen that interview and I don't think they are changing. I think he was saying what he would be prepared to do to protect the UK, (staying being the worst of ordeals) not that he was changing his stance. I could be wrong though.

marno21

Mr.Wemmick wrote: »

The no-deal Brexit ferries started running today on their government £46.6 million contract with Britany Ferries. Other contracts worth millions were also awarded to other shipping firms.

How Chris Grayling is still in his job is beyond me. What an idiot.

He was quoted earlier on Sky saying "now is not the right time for a general election"

I would say he is a prime example of why now is clearly the right time for a general election

A Dub in Glasgo

The Loyalist flute band on the leave march today are from Scotland and it looks like Wetherspoons sorted them out for expenses. Their founding member was on Question Time on four different ocassions over the years asking questions and posing as a 'random member of the public', he is a failed UKIP candidate

https://twitter.com/YesDayScotland/status/1111692110296682496

L1011

MrFresh wrote: »

Channel 4 interviewing a Labour MP who reckons the 5 MP who voted against the 3 line whip should resign. Says thee's no discipline in Parliament at the moment. Can't disagree with her there.

If there was vaguely functioning party discipline, the ERG would have been expelled en masse quite some time ago - when a smaller group and there was a working majority to do so - and there'd be new actually Tory candidates (because the ERG have basically become a party of their own) running against them

In many cases, you could put a blue rosette on a dead donkey and it'd get elected, meaning the ERG member would lose their seat. In others it'd split the vote sufficiently to get someone else in.

Similarly, Hoey's constituency would probably elect a dead donkey with a red rosette and she should have been expelled and replaced a decade or more ago!

And over here, Corbyn would have been expelled from the Labour Party in the late 80s and I suspect would probably have just vanished then, doubt he'd have got elected against them.

Spook_ie

prawnsambo wrote: »

One of us has to be confused here... The WA, afaik is the housekeeping part of the agreement and has nothing to do with the future relationship, which is in the political declaration. So the UK adopting the customs union would not affect the WA itself, just the PD.

I'm not confused, just people keep saying that if May or whomever moves on redlines then EU will move, as far as anyone has shown they won't

Duane Dibbley

The DUP are considering the prospect of a General Election on the Horizon.

I believe they are rethinking there strategy to be on the safe side

Irishmale0399

Duane Dibbley wrote: »

The DUP are considering the prospect of a General Election on the Horizon.

I believe they are rethinking there strategy to be on the safe side

More like they are surplus to requirements now in London and are affraid TM or others will sacrifice NI to get the Brexit over the line.

Itssoeasy

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

More like they are surplus to requirements now in London and are affraid TM or others will sacrifice NI to get the Brexit over the line.

Until there is a general election in which case the confidence and supply agreement ends for this current parliament they unfortunately do have power which they don't really deserve to have and it's only by political naivety from Theresa May when she really shouldn't have been naive.