Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

badtoro

badtoro wrote: »

Ken Clarke talking a lot of sense, particularly on Trumps plans for the UK market.

Good to hear an MP remind the House that it's Services that matter most to the economy, and a CU gives the UK room to do those deals around the world.

badtoro

Is there a protest of some kind in the HOC, seems to be a lot of distracted MP's

badtoro

badtoro wrote: »

Is there a protest of some kind in the HOC, seems to be a lot of distracted MP's

They seemed to be looking up at the gallery?

Yeah, it's a protester I guess.

badtoro

Deleted User wrote: »

badtoro wrote: »

Ken Clarke talking a lot of sense, particularly on Trumps plans for the UK market.

Good to hear an MP remind the House that it's Services that matter most to the economy, and a CU gives the UK room to do those deals around the world.

I thought his best comment related to the standard of the current HOC, something along the lines of it being pathetic.

Kalyke

Deleted User wrote: »

They seemed to be looking up at the gallery?

Yeah, it's a protester I guess.

A streaker I think...

oscarBravo

badtoro wrote: »

Is there a protest of some kind in the HOC, seems to be a lot of distracted MP's

Semi-naked protesters in the gallery, apparently.

ShooterSF

Wow the chap putting forward the confirmatory vote never mentioned what would be put on the referendum still... Deal vs No deal or Deal vs Stay or Simply do you support the deal Yes or No. Even worse is some of the MPs calling it a people's vote when that doesn't seem to be officially whats on the ballot.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Don't dump pics please. Especially nudity.

Professor Moriarty

They are protesting about climate change apparently. Which is indeed infinitely more important than Tory party divisions.

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta

Robert McGrath wrote: »

This is interesting.

The UK Electoral Commission are basically refusing to investigate any further breaches of electoral law by Vote Leave, because essentially they think a finding on one offence is enough

https://mobile.twitter.com/JolyonMaugham/status/1112736782913814528

Has there been any coverage on this on traditional media or discussion in HoC?

10000maniacs

badtoro wrote: »

Is there a protest of some kind in the HOC, seems to be a lot of distracted MP's

11 streakers in the HOC. They showed it on Sky News. LOL

The high horse brigade

10000maniacs wrote: »

11 streakers in the HOC. They showed it on Sky News. LOL

Yeah I know what day it is....

woejus

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Mod: Don't dump pics please. Especially nudity.

Apologies, ancapailldorcha

Yes they've glued themselves to the glass, so I imagine either a curtain will need to be found and affixed to the outside of the glass, or they'll be there all evening

Plenty of pics and angles for those interested on twitter

10000maniacs

The high horse brigade wrote: »

Yeah I know what day it is....

It really did happen. Unless it was a mini Sky News CGI project.

Off-topic but for the first time ever, I've found a use for dual apps on my phone. The video plays in the top third and I can browse Chrome in the bottom two thirds.

Could be useful for ye when the Commons is on.

Strazdas

10000maniacs wrote: »

It really did happen. Unless it was a mini Sky News CGI project.

Some sort of staged semi nude protest (men and women) in the visitors gallery but they didn't remove all of their clothes.

joe40

The high horse brigade wrote: »

10000maniacs wrote: »

11 streakers in the HOC. They showed it on Sky News. LOL

Yeah I know what day it is....

As with a lot of this Brexit, the reality is actually stranger than fiction.

briany

ShooterSF wrote: »

Wow the chap putting forward the confirmatory vote never mentioned what would be put on the referendum still... Deal vs No deal or Deal vs Stay or Simply do you support the deal Yes or No. Even worse is some of the MPs calling it a people's vote when that doesn't seem to be officially whats on the ballot.

They should stop calling the thing a "people's vote". It's a second referendum. Just call it that. I think using "people's vote" makes Leave supporters more hostile to it, because it sounds like a re-brand to try and sneak it past.

FrancieBrady

Just confirming that the votes are at 8pm?

Irish Praetorian

briany wrote: »

They should stop calling the thing a "people's vote". It's a second referendum. Just call it that. I think using "people's vote" makes Leave supporters more hostile to it, because it sounds like a re-brand to try and sneak it past.

To be fair, casting Brexit as 'the will of the people' isn't much different, particularly considering the metamorphosis from before the vote with all the talk of being like Norway or Switzerland, easily done trade deals and a compliant Europe, to afterwards and the cold factual realities as well as the shoe horning of no deal as the crystallized desire of every single Leave voter.

Amusingly enough I was reading a Delta poll from the 29th on what people would like to see happen with Brexit next, and the talk of a No Deal Brexit managed to command the stagger heights of 51% approval - from people who had voted Leave in 2016. Amazing this entire show has persisted for so long.

McMurphy

Is there a nude protest taking place within parliament at the minute or is it fake news?


(Slightly) NSFW.

https://i.postimg.cc/Dzv0bfqV/FB-IMG-1554140047006.jpg

ShooterSF

briany wrote: »

They should stop calling the thing a "people's vote". It's a second referendum. Just call it that. I think using "people's vote" makes Leave supporters more hostile to it, because it sounds like a re-brand to try and sneak it past.

Well the issue is that both "people's vote" and "second referendum" both suggest that the vote will offer remain vs an other option but the item on the ballot is not a second referendum at all but a "confirmatory vote" which suggests the people would simply be asked to confirm or not confirm any deal passed and the govt would decide the consequence of a no vote.

However no one supporting it seem to make that clear. Instead it seems like they want to pass one thing and call it another after it passes and claim it was obvious that that was clearly what was meant when it was put forward.

McMurphy

Apparently some of the protesters have glued themselves to security glass.

WTF?

Capt'n Midnight

Deleted User wrote: »

For many leave voters, a rebellion against globalization was part of the reason they want to leave the EU. The EU representing many of the features of globalization that puts some people at a disadvantage as big business brings in cheap labour to deny them a career and export's the profit to another country to avoid tax.

Wut ?

The EU has fined multinationals billions,
forced them to accept data protection, workers rights, health and safety, restricted monopolies, and other stuff in exactly the same way the US and China don't

The EU is far from perfect but compare it to the real world alternatives.


Also under May millions of non-EU migrants have arrived in the UK. And that aspect of globalisation has nothing to do with the EU.



BTW if the UK leaves then about half of the worlds tax haven's will be fair game for EU laws. At present the UK can block EU action on them. So in that case leaving the EU works. It would take pressure off us and a few others too. But like the migrants that is something the UK could take action on without the EU.

Spook_ie

prawnsambo wrote: »

Most of the main Norwegian political parties would prefer to be full members. It's just been difficult to get the people to agree on it. Last referendum was in 1994 and was defeated by 52.2/47.8% with an 87% turnout.

Not democratic enough, they should be made to vote again with some minor wording differences.

MrMusician18

briany wrote: »

They should stop calling the thing a "people's vote". It's a second referendum. Just call it that. I think using "people's vote" makes Leave supporters more hostile to it, because it sounds like a re-brand to try and sneak it past.

It sounds like a rebrand because it is a rebrand. It's obvious that they've found that "second referendum" isn't playing well in the focus groups.

The ambiguity around the confirmatory referendum is in the same vein. Win getting a second referendum first, then the ballot paper is the next battle.

briany

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

To be fair, casting Brexit as 'the will of the people' isn't much different, particularly considering the metamorphosis from before the vote with all the talk of being like Norway or Switzerland, easily done trade deals and a compliant Europe, to afterwards and the cold factual realities as well as the shoe horning of no deal as the crystallized desire of every single Leave voter.

If a UK person is determined to leave the EU, then no-deal is going to be their default position, once, as you say, the factual realities hove into view. EFTA isn't really a goer (as Vote Leave said it was) because it crosses too many lines.

It's not really the metamorphosis of all the promises into a no-deal that bothers me, it's that each no-deal-supporting Brexiteer expects that every other Brexiteer has the same mindset as they do, whereas some Brexiteers may - just may - have their preference as,

-Fantasy EFTA

-Remain

-Reality EFTA

-No deal

Junkyard Tom

If we passed a law stating that you need to spend at least two weeks in Ireland every year to keep your Irish passport we'd bring in a lot cash monies.

Zubeneschamali

briany wrote: »

If a UK person is determined to leave the EU, then no-deal is going to be their default position, once, as you say, the factual realities hove into view.

Saying No Deal is the real Brexit is like someone deciding to leave Ireland, and 2 years later saying that the only real option is to declare themselves Emperor of Rockall.


Barking mad stuff.

devnull

briany wrote: »

If a UK person is determined to leave the EU, then no-deal is going to be their default position, once, as you say, the factual realities hove into view. EFTA isn't really a goer (as Vote Leave said it was) because it crosses too many lines.

The argument that leaving and agreeing certain other terms and deals with the EU is not Brexit and therefore democracy is dead is utterly flawed, because the ballot paper only asked people if they want to remain a member of the European Union.

The document written as a result of the Referendum Act 2015, Free Movement, Customs Union, in fact a whole range of options were marked as possible outcomes if the UK voted to no longer be a member of the European Union.

Therefore to go for one of these outcomes would be consistent with the referendum text.