Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

listermint

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

I imagine we'll see the EU side ramp up the narrative that we're headed for No Deal even moreso over the next couple of days. I also don't think it will be enough to shake the UK parliament to their senses, however.

Would love to know what the no-dealers' plan is for April 13th. How far up the agenda is negotiating a trade deal with their largest trading partner and closest neighbour, and how do they imagine that conversation going?

These people don't care. Large bets on a crash out. They'll leave government straight away with the cash and move to the south of France.

It's plain as day.

woohoo!!!

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

I imagine we'll see the EU side ramp up the narrative that we're headed for No Deal even moreso over the next couple of days. I also don't think it will be enough to shake the UK parliament to their senses, however.

Would love to know what the no-dealers' plan is for April 13th. How far up the agenda is negotiating a trade deal with their largest trading partner and closest neighbour, and how do they imagine that conversation going?

Waving flags, that's the extent of their planning. Oh and blame everyone else.

Zubeneschamali

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

I imagine we'll see the EU side ramp up the narrative that we're headed for No Deal even moreso over the next couple of days. I also don't think it will be enough to shake the UK parliament to their senses, however.

So you mean the EU side are going to tell the truth and the UK parliament are going to ignore them? Sounds plausible.

But this time they crash out on the 12th while still arguing with each other about the future relationship which is not even in play.

Imreoir2

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Triggering Article 50 meant that the MPs were accepting leaving with no deal was an option therefore they voted that unless they came up with some other agreed deal they would leave with no deal. They did it knowingly.

They also did it knowing that they could extend or revoke A50 instead of leaving with no-deal, and when asked they have consistantly given more support to those options than no-deal. As such it is as valid to say that in voting for A50 they voted to revoke A50 as it is to say that in voting for A50 they voted for no deal. In reality, they voted to start a process and reserved judgement as to what would happen at the end of that process, they did not make a definatve choice as to how the process would end and it is foolish to pretend otherwise.

People were told before the Referendum that leaving the EU meant that the UK would leave the Customs Union and Single Market, David Cameron and Nick Clegg both said this. The leaflet that the Government distributed to all homes which supposedly factually explained the options in more detail than could be given on the ballot paper placed great stress on the UK losing access to the Single Market. As as I remember, no-one brought up the idea of leaving the EU but remaining in the Customs Union and Single Market before it was decided to leave. Prove me wrong.

People were also told, by Brexiteers, that the UK would not have to leave the Single Market or Customs Union and that claims that they would were project fear. Either way it does not matter what they were told about the Single Market or Customs Union any more than the colour of the queens knickers, as neither were featured on the ballot paper.

Headshot

listermint wrote: »

These people don't care. Large bets on a crash out. They'll leave government straight away with the cash and move to the south of France.

It's plain as day.

When property prices collapse these vultures will buy property for pittance

RobertKK

Dont be at yourself wrote: »

I imagine we'll see the EU side ramp up the narrative that we're headed for No Deal even moreso over the next couple of days. I also don't think it will be enough to shake the UK parliament to their senses, however.

Would love to know what the no-dealers' plan is for April 13th. How far up the agenda is negotiating a trade deal with their largest trading partner and closest neighbour, and how do they imagine that conversation going?

April 13th would be the Tory party leadership battle, and the Tory party would look for someone who believes in Brexit, because apparently Theresa May doesn't really.
So Theresa May does a David Cameron so someone else can deal with the disaster the predecessor and the predecessor before that created.
We may think Theresa May is such a bad leader (she is) but it is quite possible the next leader will be worse.
The chance for things to get a lot worse is endless.

Zubeneschamali

RobertKK wrote: »

April 13th would be the Tory party leadership battle, and the Tory party would look for someone who believes in Brexit, because apparently Theresa May doesn't really.

If they bring about a no deal crashout, the Brexiteers will duck and cover. It'll be job done, collect the bets, park your behind on the safe seat backbenches forever.


It'll be up to the actual politicians to deal with the 10 year recession, hostility from every neighbour, recession, riots, police brutality on SKY, recession etc.


Boris and Rees-Mogg will, in the words of the most incisive British commentator on Brexit, have their trotters up. Twats.

Junkyard Tom

The EU needs to make a detailed plan that all 27 of us get behind and stick to in the event of a crash-out Brexit. The British will no doubt get back to trying to divide the EU. They are contemptible.

Gonna be a lot of road closures up on the border soon. I imagine big concrete bollards, they won't go the way of bombing them again, would they?

Zubeneschamali

Deleted User wrote: »

Gonna be a lot of road closures up on the border soon. I imagine big concrete bollards, they won't go the way of bombing them again, would they?

No, they'll just use a JCB to move them every evening.


If anyone plans a concrete bollard that can't be pushed aside, that's the person who needs to worry about bombs.

Russman

So, given no deal is looking increasingly likely at this point, realistically speaking, and leaving aside bravado, how soon before it really starts to bite over there ?
Like, how long before large numbers of people really feel the impact and realise the gravity of the whole thing ?
Because reading some of the Brexiteer responses on Twitter you’d almost be forgiven for wondering who has the wrong end of the stick.

Junkyard Tom

Deleted User wrote: »

Gonna be a lot of road closures up on the border soon. I imagine big concrete bollards, they won't go the way of bombing them again, would they?

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

No, they'll just use a JCB to move them every evening.


If anyone plans a concrete bollard that can't be pushed aside, that's the person who needs to worry about bombs.

Let's not get ahead of ourselves lads, it's highly unlikely to get that bad.

Spook_ie

Someone blinking?

Tánaiste, Simon Coveney, has said there is no plan in place to protect the integrity of the EU single market in a no-deal Brexit scenario.



But Mr Coveney said it was not too late to create a plan that would protect the single market and the peace process on the island of Ireland in the absence of a backstop.

He made the comments as efforts intensify to find a way through the Brexit impasse with the April 12 deadline looming.

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/no-plan-to-protect-single-market-under-no-deal-brexit-says-coveney-914795.html


Also if that's the case then why the insistence on the backstop?

ThePanjandrum

Imreoir2 wrote: »

People were also told, by Brexiteers, that the UK would not have to leave the Single Market or Customs Union and that claims that they would were project fear. Either way it does not matter what they were told about the Single Market or Customs Union any more than the colour of the queens knickers, as neither were featured on the ballot paper.

Quotes?

d. The authorities must provide objective information. This implies that the text submitted to a referendum and an explanatory report or balanced campaign material from the proposal’s supporters and opponents should be made available to electors sufficiently in advance, as follows:
i. they must be published in the official gazette sufficiently far in advance of the vote;
ii. they must be sent directly to citizens and be received sufficiently far in advance of the vote;
iii. the explanatory report must give a balanced presentation not only of the viewpoint of the executive and legislative authorities or persons sharing their viewpoint but also of the opposing one.

Code of Good Practice on Referendums - EU

Franz Von Peppercorn

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

So you mean the EU side are going to tell the truth and the UK parliament are going to ignore them? Sounds plausible.

But this time they crash out on the 12th while still arguing with each other about the future relationship which is not even in play.

They may not even notice. On April the 13th there will be another round of indicative votes. Order!

Laois_Man

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

People were told before the Referendum that leaving the EU meant that the UK would leave the Customs Union and Single Market, David Cameron and Nick Clegg both said this. The leaflet that the Government distributed to all homes which supposedly factually explained the options in more detail than could be given on the ballot paper placed great stress on the UK losing access to the Single Market. As as I remember, no-one brought up the idea of leaving the EU but remaining in the Customs Union and Single Market before it was decided to leave. Prove me wrong.

With pleasure.....

Franz Von Peppercorn

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Gonna be a lot of road closures up on the border soon. I imagine big concrete bollards, they won't go the way of bombing them again, would they?

We will have to police the border on a no deal, but the police don’t have to stop every car and truck. Tariffs can be paid online. However borders do need occasional checkpoints.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Laois_Man wrote: »

With pleasure.....

I think the opposite is true too, though, the anti brexiters said that there wouldn’t be the option of a CU or SM.

ThePanjandrum

Imreoir2 wrote: »

They also did it knowing that they could extend or revoke A50 instead of leaving with no-deal

No, they didn't. Those questions did not come to the courts until later.

Imreoir2

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Quotes?

Absolutely nobody is talking about threatening our place in the Single Market - Daniel Hannan

CelticRambler

rubbledoubledo wrote: »

The EU have to make a stand at this stage.

The EU made a stand back in 2016; they haven't shifted in the meantime. Since the start of the year, the only adjustments they've made to their original position have been to protect EU interests and manoeuvre the UK into corners that make it easier to set the T&Cs for future negotiations.

Anteayer wrote: »

The issue with that is that the EP assumes the UK will return a massive number of Eurosceptic MEPs and actually the UK right wingers do tend to be a group to themselves in Brussels, particularly UKIP.

I mean all most of those guys do is filibuster and troll. It’s not like they’ll be doing anything remotely constructive if they’re elected, particularly if there’s a dragged out Brexit and they’re only there as a stop gap.

They can get away with a small amout of trolling, but the EP is set up in a way that encourages healthy contributions and kills off filibustering. If you watch the televised debates carefully, you'll occasionally catch sight of the clock counting down the seconds left for whoever's speaking at the time. And seeing/hearing Nigel Farage being reminded by an Irish accent* that he's not in the HoC and needs to behave like a grown-up is a lovely thing!

(*EP Vice President, Mairead McGuinness)

ThePanjandrum

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

No, they didn't. Those questions did not come to the courts until later.

I drive to work every day knowing I'll get there, or die. Just because I accept that I may does not mean it was my intention or I'm ok with dying.

No Deal has had significant majorities against it recently, the only thing to get a majority really. Your arguing that MPs want a No Deal is just odd.

Water John

Water John wrote: »

Kyle and Soubry seemed quite optimistic. A further narrowing and joining of the options on Wednesday, they feel will get the numbers. Fair play to their patience.

Ian Dunt not so happy. Taking a bit of a swipe at the soft Brexiters and the 2nd refers.

https://twitter.com/iandunt/status/1112844097033732098?s=21

Laois_Man

Spook_ie wrote: »

Someone blinking?



https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/no-plan-to-protect-single-market-under-no-deal-brexit-says-coveney-914795.html


Also if that's the case then why the insistence on the backstop?

He is only saying the same thing as Varadkar said on March 27th...

"Let there be no doubt in this house or in Westminster that when I talk about special arrangements I mean treating Northern Ireland differently from the rest of the United Kingdom and it is the UK's proposal to do exactly that," Mr Varadkar said.

He is referring to the British, who, when they released their Tariff details, said they were going to treat N. Ireland differently in order to avoid a hard border!

Imreoir2

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

No, they didn't. Those questions did not come to the courts until later.

Do you live in an alternate reality where nobody knew before it was confirmed by the courts that A50 could be revoked dispite this being the clear understanding of all parties before, during and after it was triggered?

Please tell me what the point of this obfustication is supposed to be? MP's voted for no-deal despite never having voted for no-deal, 17.4 million people voted to leave the single market dispite never having been asked that question. You seem intent on nothing more than winding people up.

Zubeneschamali

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

Sometimes co-operation is mutually beneficial

The whole EU is beneficial to both sides and the UK voting public Noped that, so don't be surprised if the EU nopes a few things you think they shouldn't in a purely rational world of theoretical economics.

Zubeneschamali

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

Let's not get ahead of ourselves lads, it's highly unlikely to get that bad.

You must be much younger than I am.

Franz Von Peppercorn

Mark Francois is a horrible man. The use of the word coup here is inflammatory

https://twitter.com/itvnews/status/1112832941502205953?s=20

Zubeneschamali

Spook_ie wrote: »

Also if that's the case then why the insistence on the backstop?

Here's Coveney's plan: do nothing while the port at Dover utterly collapses.


When the UK begs for food and medicine aid, tap your Backstop plan with your glasses.

Strazdas

Russman wrote: »

So, given no deal is looking increasingly likely at this point, realistically speaking, and leaving aside bravado, how soon before it really starts to bite over there ?
Like, how long before large numbers of people really feel the impact and realise the gravity of the whole thing ?
Because reading some of the Brexiteer responses on Twitter you’d almost be forgiven for wondering who has the wrong end of the stick.

Within 24-48 hours at a guess. No Deal would impact on so many different things instantly and simultaneously that it would be evident to everyone that something calamitous was underway - definitely the biggest upheaval in the UK since say September 1939.