Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

Very good BBC Spotlight programme at the moment. The presenter is doing a brilliant dissection of ERG treason of the DUP/Ulster last Friday showing JRM's twists and turns to do exactly what he said he'd never do: abandon the DUP and vote for the deal. Same with BJ and others. More than cracks showing now. Expect the sellout before 12 April.

It's nothing short of astonishing that these Tory toffs are still entertaining the sullen, uncouth plebs of the DUP when the English could have their much harder Brexit - greater "freedom" for England - if they just threw the DUP off the cliff. When their bluff is called/when the English economy comes crashing, the Tory toffs will push the lower classes of the DUP under the bus and look out for England alone (even more quickly than they've economically been pushing the English working class under the bus for decades and scapegoating the EU for the consequences of their own Tory rightwing economic policies).

Edward Carson's 1921 reflection is felicitous:

I think I was rather exuberant over the way the Prime Minister dealt with Mr. Asquith, but at that time I did not know, as I know now, that I was a mere puppet in a political game. I was in earnest. I was not playing politics.... What a fool I was. I was only a puppet, and so was Ulster, and so was Ireland, in the political game that was to get the Conservative Party into power. And of all the men in 45 my experience that I think are the most loathsome it is those who will sell their friends for the purpose of conciliating their enemies, and, perhaps, still worse, the men who climb up a ladder into power of which even I may have been part of a humble rung, and then, when they have got into power, kick the ladder away without any concern for the pain, or injury, or mischief, or damage that they do to those who have helped them to gain power... (Edward Carson, 14 December 1921)

prawnsambo

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Guided by procedures from the 19th century.

I think they've gone back to the 17th. John Bercow cited a precedent from then to prevent further MVs. 1604 iirc.

Capt'n Midnight

devnull wrote: »

Is there anywhere I can find a list of amendments and votes so far tonight?

They had printer problems earlier so even the MPs didn't get the full list for a while.

devnull

Tonight is really hard to follow, it's being poorly covered both on TV and Online

Is it really so hard to have

Amendment Details
Ayes
Noes

That was easy for the other nights but tonight everyone is using codes, or writing stuff out in long paragraphs. It's giving me a bit of a headache after a long day at work!

Parly on Twitter isn't much better as that's caling everything by amendment number.

An Ciarraioch

This UK Politics thread on Reddit gives live updates:

https://old.reddit.com/r/ukpolitics/comments/b93rsd/a50_extension_come_hell_or_high_water_megathread/

Professor Moriarty

prawnsambo wrote: »

I think they've gone back to the 17th. John Bercow cited a precedent from then to prevent further MVs. 1604 iirc.

The Honourable Member for the 17th Century will be chuffed.

devnull

For the first time tonight in this whole process I am really confused to be honest, the wording of some of the bills is pretty confusing and the complete lack of proper explanation of some of them and the fact they're not being properly covered on TV has really confused me.

BobbyBobberson

One of the problems with this three year long **** show is that events which would be considered big are completely diluted by what has gone on.

Even TV channels this evening look like they have lost interest.

Capt'n Midnight

prawnsambo wrote: »

I think they've gone back to the 17th. John Bercow cited a precedent from then to prevent further MVs. 1604 iirc.

May has been using the Statute of Proclamations 1539 to override the regional assemblies.

Headshot

I am kind annoyed with Sky News, they were superb with their coverage and explaining what's been voted on etc but nothing tonight

Very disappointing

Spook_ie

Panrich wrote: »

That’s balanced by the rise of China. They’ve still overtaken France.

Only right given France's strikes, work to rules etc.

Capt'n Midnight

I'm beginning to think the fixed term thing isn't such a good idea. It means a duopoly as either Tory or Labour can veto a general election until they think they can win.

https://twitter.com/LeftWingScot/status/1113559339447521282

Daniel Kawczynski, a Tory ERG MP ally of JRM, has just said on tonight's BBC Spotlight programme, in direct and explicit response to Dodd's "I'd rather stay in the EU than threaten the Union", that basically the DUP can go fúck themselves, or verbatim: 'No, No, No. We are leaving the European Union and despite my respect for the DUP nothing or nobody will stop us from leaving the European Union.'

It seems the DUP are only now waking up to the fact that the smart thing for preserving their Union would have been to have been pro-Remain all along. It took them a long time.

Anteayer

The fragility of parliament in the sense that an election can be called if confidence is lost is like the fuse in an electrical circuit. If things get to a certain level of crazy the system naturally collapses.

The Fixed Term Parliament Act is a bit like bypassing the a fuse by replacing it with a lump of metal.

When things go crazy, it doesn't blow or trip and instead your house burns down.

Imreoir2

CalamariFritti wrote: »

So Juncker said today there will be no further short extension. The WA will be ratified by the 12th or they're out.
Why is everyone acting so normal? Parliament and media and everyone acting as if the UK had all those options?
What am I missing?

No more short delays.

This is nothing new, it's just a restatement of the EU's poistion as adopted at the last EU council at the end of March.

An Ciarraioch

Finally onto Cooper bill vote.

Topgear on Dave

Deleted User wrote: »

It seems the morons in the DUP are only now waking up to the fact that the smart thing for preserving their Union would have been to have been pro-Remain all along. It took them a long time.

I hope everyone has seen that clip. It really is worth watching and realising the depth of the sh*t that they have landed themselves in.....

https://twitter.com/BBCSpotlightNI/status/1113199323838390272

funkey_monkey

What's going on. I just seen Mr Peter Bonnnneeee getting slapped down by bercow.

It seems a bit hard to follow tonight.

Headshot

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

I hope everyone has seen that clip. It really is worth watching and realising the depth of the sh*t that they have landed themselves in.....

https://twitter.com/BBCSpotlightNI/status/1113199323838390272

This has made my night, DUP hopefully going to get their just deserts now and hopefully the NI people see how the DUP has ****ed them over and we never see this group in power in NI again

road_high

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

I hope everyone has seen that clip. It really is worth watching and realising the depth of the sh*t that they have landed themselves in.....

https://twitter.com/BBCSpotlightNI/status/1113199323838390272

Lets hope they follow through and throw the DUP under the bus where they belong....border down the Irish sea surely becomes a distinct possibility...(it hasn't gone away you know!)

devnull

Be just as typical that this bill wouldn't pass now, based on all the stuff that's happened in recent weeks.

Infini

Headshot wrote: »

This has made my night, DUP hopefully going to get their just deserts now and hopefully the NI people see how the DUP has ****ed them over and we never see this group in power in NI again

We'll if the report earlier in the tread about them basically having their funding evaporating thanks to their earlier screwing over of the business and farming communities then we may not have to deal with the DUP much longer. Course if they dont like it they can "go to the chippy!"

As the old saying goes "Karma is a Bítch".

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

I hope everyone has seen that clip. It really is worth watching and realising the depth of the sh*t that they have landed themselves in.....

https://twitter.com/BBCSpotlightNI/status/1113199323838390272

Still gotta laugh how he says the DUP will not stop them from leaving the EU forgetting entirely the fact that the way thing's are going they won't be leaving at all unless it's a disastrous crashout and while there's a good chance of that happening there is still 9 days left on the clock. The knives are out in the Colosseum folks!

Professor Moriarty

Headshot wrote: »

This has made my night, DUP hopefully going to get their just deserts now and hopefully the NI people see how the DUP has ****ed them over and we never see this group in power in NI again

They've alienated much of their base (business and farmers) and alienated their only allies in the UK (The Tories). These have been their only achievements in the past three years. Job well done.

Headshot

1 vote away

wow wow wow

Capt'n Midnight

Headshot wrote: »

1 vote away

wow wow wo

and now we wait for the full results to see who jumped ship

Headshot

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

and now we wait for the full results to see who jumped ship

Im gripped to my seat, cannot wait to see what Conservatives jumped

Topgear on Dave

Headshot wrote: »

1 vote away

wow wow wow

Mark Francois is steaming with rage.

MPFGLB

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

I hope everyone has seen that clip. It really is worth watching and realising the depth of the sh*t that they have landed themselves in.....

https://twitter.com/BBCSpotlightNI/status/1113199323838390272

Tis guy is ridiculous ...'Nothing or no one will stop us leaving the EU " ...who does he think he is ...If the people change their mind as poles are showing and a majority want to remain now and Labour and Trade Unions are calling for a referendum on any deal including the option to remain in then what will that guy do ??

The DUP are the biggest ***** ever...power hungry and wanting to be seen as the king makers ....completely ignoring the will of the people of NI to remain in EU ..They should have stood by the SNP and others .But if they had one brain cell between them they would have realised this .Even the EU offer of NI remaining in EU customs arrangement and in UK market as part of the exit deal was a superb offer with NI in the best of both world...imagine the companies who would want to relocate there..but no they rejected that too ...and for what ...If they are not voted out in the next election then something is seriously wrong somewhere

No the intellectual heavy weights stood with the ERG ...Why ??

ancapailldorcha

No more insults please. Serious discussion only.

LuckyLloyd

BobbyBobberson wrote: »

https://twitter.com/NickBoles/status/1113535648688951296

Bit of honesty from Nick Boles.

The replies from MEP Woolfe to that tweet are astonishing. The mask really starting to slip for some of the hard Brexiteers.