Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

Tell me how

Some chilling reading for the DUP.

Link

Barely a third of the public in Great Britain hope Northern Ireland would vote to remain in the UK, new research showed.

A fifth said they would prefer if it left and joined the Republic of Ireland following any future referendum on removing the Irish border, pollsters revealed.

One in three (34%) thought Brexit will make it more likely that Northern Ireland will join the Republic over the next decade.

Thomas_IV

Tell me how wrote: »

In the early 20th century, the British Empire governed 23% of the people on the Planet totalling 412M. By 1965, just 5M people outside of the UK were governed by the empire (3M in Hong Kong)

If they leave, it is going to be a big culture shock to the psyche of the Nation to realise that they can influence very little outside of within their own borders. That is the first time they will be in this position in 500 years.

From what I have observed, still today, some people in the former BE colonies have an ambivalent attitude towards the Brits. It is in some ways split between admiration, gratefulness and utter despise of them and all that is more or less based on the historical record they (the Brits) have left behind. If one likes to put it in a term, one could see it as something like a 'post-colonial traumata' which often comes up when faced with the negative records of the past from the colonial period.

Well, I wouldn't mind if they were to get some of that medicine back to themselves to taste it and think again. Maybe this might be the cure of their self-inflicted megalomania, brought to them and stirred up by the top Brexiteers like Farage and Johnson. Two politicians who have no substance at all but still managed to get 52% of the UK electorate that deluded to vote for Brexit. Without the despicable UK Tabloid press, they might never had come that far.

Thomas_IV

Tell me how wrote: »

Some chilling reading for the DUP.

Link

That's great news, but certainly not everyone in the Republic of Ireland would welcome that, because of having to deal with the dinosaurs in a UI and for the reason that they are nothing but selfish trouble makers.

Anyway, I am really enjoying this poll result cos imo it might probably reflect on the way the DUP has shown itself to the people in GB since they have become the 'pressure group' backing part of this present UK govt since 2017.

Enzokk

I found this interesting, its funny how attitudes has changed in parliament depending on your needs as an MP. The Government has been critical of the House of Lords taking their time scrutinizing legislation that is sent their way from the HoC, but now they are actually telling them to take their time with the Cooper Bill as they see it as tying May's hands.

https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1113753396593426432

Infini

Thomas_IV wrote: »

That's great news, but certainly not everyone in the Republic of Ireland would welcome that, because of having to deal with the dinosaurs in a UI and for the reason that they are nothing but selfish trouble makers.

If a UI comes about the likes of the DUP wont survive in their current form as they'd have to adapt both realistic policies and abandon confrontational BS as it would not only get them nowhere in the Dail but other parties would be able to cannibalise their vote as well.

Thomas_IV

Infini wrote: »

If a UI comes about the likes of the DUP wont survive in their current form as they'd have to adapt both realistic policies and abandon confrontational BS as it would not only get them nowhere in the Dail but other parties would be able to cannibalise their vote as well.

It would be a great day to see the downfall and vanishing of the DUP for good and the OO with them.

Shelga

Tell me how wrote: »

Some chilling reading for the DUP.

Link

If I was English, even as a Remainer, I can’t pretend I’d be too bothered about keeping Northern Ireland in the Union. I would look at the DUP and the way they have conducted themselves over the last 3 years, and think, no thanks. Bearing in mind that the media has portrayed the DUP as being the voice of Northern Ireland, which is far from the truth.

I’d be far more concerned about the potential independence of Scotland.

Infini

Enzokk wrote: »

I found this interesting, its funny how attitudes has changed in parliament depending on your needs as an MP. The Government has been critical of the House of Lords taking their time scrutinizing legislation that is sent their way from the HoC, but now they are actually telling them to take their time with the Cooper Bill as they see it as tying May's hands.

https://twitter.com/davidallengreen/status/1113753396593426432

The stench of hypocracy from them is beyond nauseating its obvious that those who want a crash out are being boxed in and slowly quarantined. The reason they fear a long extention more than anything is because it drastically increases the chances of a 2nd referendum happening and putting an end to their vanity project.

I'm of 2 minds on all of this of course on the one hand it might be better to cut the UK loose as it could cause problems for us of course and it might be better in some respects for us BUT if theres a chance of not just a reversal of all this but all these comtemptuous bastards who've played on peoples ignorance and fear losing both Brexit and political and financial costs on them for their malice I'd love nothing better to see em get their comeuppance.

Thomas_IV

Some Thing that seems to be (not quite yet) settled:

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-47801920

Brexit: EU agrees three-month visa waiver for Britons

The European Union has agreed in principle that British citizens visiting the EU for short periods after Brexit will not need a visa.

The three-month visa waiver would apply whether or not there is a Brexit deal.

However it would be conditional on the UK granting the same rights to EU citizens in return.

…
The European Parliament approved the law on Thursday, meaning it will come into effect once EU states have given it the final sign-off.

…The new legislation would come into effect immediately following a no-deal Brexit, or after the planned transition period if there is a deal.

It would allow trips to the EU and four countries in the passport-free Schengen area for up to three months within any six-month period.

It would mean the UK would join a list of around 60 countries whose nationals do not require a visa for short stays in the EU.

However Britons will still need to pay €7 (£6.30) every three years to travel to EU countries, because of a new security system for Schengen zone countries.
…

Well, that's at least something and one should expect that the UK govt is following up that in the same way in return. I don't think that even by that regulation I would plan a trip to any part of Britain in the near future. I have already visited the places that interested me in recent years and there's not much left that interests me that much to go to a post-Brexit UK, even if the £ is crumbling down in its aftermath.

Thomas_IV

Shelga wrote: »

If I was English, even as a Remainer, I can’t pretend I’d be too bothered about keeping Northern Ireland in the Union. I would look at the DUP and the way they have conducted themselves over the last 3 years, and think, no thanks. Bearing in mind that the media has portrayed the DUP as being the voice of Northern Ireland, which is far from the truth.

I’d be far more concerned about the potential independence of Scotland.

Quite right and I always wondered why the Shinners were that silent in regards of NI.

As for Scotland, Ms Sturgeon is currently in some sort of a political 'limbo' where one step too early could threaten her plan for an IndyRef2. If the HoC can vote by a majority in favour of the UK remaining in the CU, it would weaken her chances for an IndyRef2. I think that a no-deal Brexit would be the starting point for a growing support of an IndyRef2 and probably a majority in favour of an Independent Scotland. But as seen during the past years of Brexit negotiations, that wouldn't be an easy undertaking. It would probably become even more complicated than the UK's exit from the EU.

awec

Lucy8080 wrote: »

The Cooper bill that passed by one vote was backed by Lady Hermon- Independent Unionist M.P. for North Down. lol.

You're surprised?

She is a remainer. She is NIs voice of reason in the HoC, and frequently has a pop at the DUP.

Zubeneschamali

Thomas_IV wrote: »

Quite right and I always wondered why the Shinners were that silent in regards of NI.

"Never interrupt the enemy when they are making a mistake".

Kermit.de.frog

Tell me how wrote: »

Some chilling reading for the DUP.

Link

That can be turned on it's head though as per the article.

The vast majority of the population of the EU will never visit Ireland.

Should we leave the EU on that basis?



It's not up to the opinion of people in Britain whether they want the north in their union or not. It's up to the people living there and as of now the clear majority prefer to remain part of the UK. Only way that is going to change is to convince them.

Brexit on it's own is not enough.

Thomas_IV

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

"Never interrupt the enemy when they are making a mistake".

Sure, this 'making a mistake' is going on for nearly two years by now.

Sam Russell

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

Here's the thing though. There is a lot of disquiet in the EU about Britain having a place in all decision making until they leave. Essentially, they will have input into policy and legislation even though they might not be there to implement it. That could set up a variety of very unhelpful scenarios for the EU.

Well, there could be that view.

However, while Art 50 is still in force, it is much more likely that the UK PM will be left outside the door while any sensitive matters, such as the budget, are discussed, and the EU27 draw up their plans without the UK in the room. This already happens when Brexit is discussed. The UK PM does not even get to have dinner.

In the EUP, the UK MEPs might be spilt 50 50 for pro and anti EU, but even so, the anti EU MEPs would be isolated into small EU groups with no influence on anything. I think the UKIP/Brexit MEPs will be pariahs.

The UK will be toxic at EU functions for quite a while.

Sam Russell

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

That can be turned on it's head though as per the article.

The vast majority of the population of the EU will never visit Ireland.

Should we leave the EU on that basis?



It's not up to the opinion of people in Britain whether they want the north in their union or not. It's up to the people living there and as of now the clear majority prefer to remain part of the UK. Only way that is going to change is to convince them.

Brexit on it's own is not enough.

That would be true if the UK Gov were not subsidising them to the tune of GB£12 billion per year.

The person paying the piper calls the tune.

Thomas_IV

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

That can be turned on it's head though as per the article.

The vast majority of the population of the EU will never visit Ireland.

Should we leave the EU on that basis?



It's not up to the opinion of people in Britain whether they want the north in their union or not. It's up to the people living there and as of now the clear majority prefer to remain part of the UK. Only way that is going to change is to convince them.

Brexit on it's own is not enough.

You're just forgetting on essential thing of the Unionists dogma which is that they're as long loyal to the Crown as long as the Crown is loyal to them. That also means that the Unionist hold on to the Union as long a the Brits in GB hold on to that too. To be abandoned by the Brits in GB would be the triggering effect for the Unionists to cut off their Bounds with GB, but not until every threat from the Unionists to the UK govt have failed.

Infini

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

"Never interrupt the enemy when they are making a mistake".

I believe the more accurate saying is "Give a man enough rope and they'll hang themselves".

Thomas_IV

Sam Russell wrote: »

That would be true if the UK Gov were not subsidising them to the tune of GB£12 billion per year.

The person paying the piper calls the tune.

This 'buying the DUP support' of the present UK minority govt was more appearing like a bribery and this is how it is perceived. To top it all, the DUP used that position to be the pressure group on the UK govt and twart every sane compromise that govt has negotiated with the EU.

An Ciarraioch

Something to note tomorrow morning will be the result of the Newport West by-election - should be a safe Labour hold, but will some support leak to Lib Dems, Plaid Cymru or the Greens? Conversely, the Leave vote could see Tory backers switch to UKIP:

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/newport-west-by-election-candidates-when-vote-paul-flynn-ruth-jones/

Shelga

The DUP are like the clingy ex-girlfriend of Britain, who was never that into them to begin with.

ShooterSF

Sam Russell wrote: »

That would be true if the UK Gov were not subsidising them to the tune of GB£12 billion per year.

The person paying the piper calls the tune.

You conquered it. It's your mess now :pac:

Water John

Yvette Cooper's Bill looks like it will sail through the House of Lords. The lady has great gumption. This is the second time she has made a key intervention that will have scraped through. Letwin and herself were thinking 48 hours ago it was a long shot.

FrancieBrady

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

It's not up to the opinion of people in Britain whether they want the north in their union or not. It's up to the people living there and as of now the clear majority prefer to remain part of the UK. Only way that is going to change is to convince them.

Brexit on it's own is not enough.

While that is true of the commitment to the GFA. I don't think there is anything stopping a party within the UK agitating to get rid of NI.

What is profoundly evident now though is that after May, (the 'committed Unionist') selling them out and now the ERG also shafting them, it can never again be claimed with any credibility that the UK cares about northern Ireland or Ireland as an island, for that matter. Not when it comes to it's own selfish interests anyhow.

That is what the DUP have achieved and demonstrated to the unionist electorate here.

Christy42

Thomas_IV wrote: »

Sam Russell wrote: »

That would be true if the UK Gov were not subsidising them to the tune of GB£12 billion per year.

The person paying the piper calls the tune.

This 'buying the DUP support' of the present UK minority govt was more appearing like a bribery and this is how it is perceived. To top it all, the DUP used that position to be the pressure group on the UK govt and twart every sane compromise that govt has negotiated with the EU.

Only 1 billion or so once off payment is part of the bribe if I remember correctly.

The rest is simply propping up a dead economy year after year.

If London cuts off subsidies (let's be fair London subsidise most of the country) then northern Ireland will have little choice but to find something else that works. Not sure that would happen, north England would worry about their own funding and argue against it I suspect.

s3rtvdbwfj81ch

prawnsambo wrote: »

Couldn't answer a single question coherently and just hung up quietly when faced with another one.

here it is

O'Brien is a hero here

https://twitter.com/LBC/status/1113780919591145472

Spook_ie

Tell me how wrote: »

Some chilling reading for the DUP.

Link

Yeah but you read down and you see that 49% of Conservatives want them to stay and only 39% of Labour, so Conservative are for the Union and Labour are for the Republic of England, surveys can say what anyone would like them to say depending on their point of view

awec

Tory Lords trying to filibuster?

Lord True is fairly waffling on here. HoL definitely not as interesting to watch as the HoC.

Kermit.de.frog

Gearing up for Chancellor Merkel in the Pheonix Park at Farmleigh.





Apparently there will be some tough talking on Ireland's preparedness for no deal and how we intend on protecting the single market.

bob mcbob

This is brilliant - it is a description of the hard line Brexiteers who even now think anything except a no-deal is betrayal.

A quote from it -

(One Tory Brexiteer describes the three men thus: “Mark Francois: idiot, Andrew Bridgen: 75% idiot, Steve Baker: sometimes lets his emotions cloud his judgment”).

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/apr/04/brexit-brexiteers-brincels-ultras-war-martyrdom