Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

Anteayer

GLaDOS wrote: »

We joined the French Commonwealth?

We joined a French language intercultural organisation as an observer. La Francophonie isn't structured like the Commonwealth and contains something like 88 members only about 56 of which speak French.

I mean Poland's a member! It's hardly controversial.

I've no doubt it was in part to ensure we continue to build good relations with our nearest continental neighbours (which includes Belgium btw). but we did not join the French Commonwealth.

seamus

GLaDOS wrote: »

We joined the French Commonwealth?

Kind of.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_internationale_de_la_Francophonie

It's not the same thing as the British Commonwealth at all, and we joined as an observer. It was formed in 1970 by a number of independent nations.

If you're an English nationalist though it's a French Commonwealth, and even recognising its existence makes you in some way a treacherous smelly colonial Frenchman.

10000maniacs

Anteayer wrote: »

I'm increasingly confused by what's happening. I'm getting hassle at work about it now too.

I suggested that we should play it with caution and have contingencies for a hard Brexit. However those of us who have been cautious are now getting told that we are over panicking and it's all been a waste of resources.

At work, the senior managers are now not planning for Brexit and have adopted a 'ah it'll be grand' attitude.

So I'm not predicting anything anymore. If there's a hard brexit and the company goes under, I'll just get a job somewhere else.

I've started looking for jobs abroad as I still think this thing could be a complete disaster.

2008 was enough for me. I'm not exposing myself to this kind of risk again.

That's grand if you get a job abroad. But the difference between 2008 and now is this current situation is not self inflicted. Nobody is to blame here. Maybe companies don't have the resources to plan for it. We all have to diversify, look beyond Britain and aim for different markets.
But through it all, never forget how Britain treated Ireland like a turd stuck to their shoe throughout the last 3 years.

Anteayer

10000maniacs wrote: »

That's grand if you get a job abroad. But the difference between 2008 and now is this current situation is not self inflicted. Nobody is to blame here. Maybe companies don't have the resources to plan for it. We all have to diversify, look beyond Britain and aim for different markets.
But through it all, never forget how Britain treated Ireland like a turd stuck to their shoe throughout the last 3 years.

I'm not blaming the Irish government for it. I'm just saying I can't really do another recession.

54and56

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

The Spectator is sore over Ireland joining as as observer the French commonwealth.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/2019/04/irelands-strange-decision-to-become-a-french-colonial-outpost/

Argues in a post Brexit world makes more sense for Ireland to join their commonwealth.

I absolutely love the saltiness of the article, it's dripping with bitterness.

Anteayer

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

I absolutely love the saltiness of the article, it's dripping with bitterness.

It's written in the tone of a psycho ex husband (or wife) who has discovered their former chattle from years ago actually has other friends.

Infini

GLaDOS wrote: »

We joined the French Commonwealth?

There's a french commonwealth now? o.o

MikeSoys

by extending the exit...the softer the brexit.. uk may never leave TM changes her mind every week...there will be no end in sight of brexit

darem93

Hurrache wrote: »

Verhofstadt's take on JRM. The rolling extension is far from a done deal.

https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1114119719655755776

Honestly I'm not surprised they're weary about giving them an extension, especially long enough to allow them to be part of the EU elections.

It's bad enough to see the appalling behaviour of Farage and the other Brexiteers in the European Parliament as it is. They could get even more obstructive if they start pedaling the idea that they're being held there "against their will".

I'd say at this point the EU just want rid of them.

ancapailldorcha

MikeSoys wrote: »

by extending the exit...the softer the brexit.. uk may never leave TM changes her mind every week...there will be no end in sight of brexit

There is. It's the 12th April, this day next week.

Usually, obstructing a process would halt it. Not so here given that the legal default is a crash out Brexit. I really Corbyn will be savvy enough to either insist on a GE, a people's vote or distance himself from this debacle. Brexit is a project of the hard right. There's no reason for him to entangle himself in it unless he wins sufficient concessions to leave it a BrINO.

Fingers crossed we'll at least content the European Parliamentary elections.

MikeSoys

darem93 wrote: »

Hurrache wrote: »

Verhofstadt's take on JRM. The rolling extension is far from a done deal.

https://twitter.com/guyverhofstadt/status/1114119719655755776

Honestly I'm not surprised they're weary about giving them an extension, especially long enough to allow them to be part of the EU elections.

It's bad enough to see the appalling behaviour of Farage and the other Brexiteers in the European Parliament as it is. They could get even more obstructive if they start pedaling the idea that they're being held there "against their will".

I'd say at this point the EU just want rid of them.

i agree but cant honestly see any eu member being allowed (by tusk and co etc..) to not allow the extension. if say france says it will vote against it ..eu will have those emergency talks and convince france to allow it..

briany

darem93 wrote: »

Honestly I'm not surprised they're weary about giving them an extension, especially long enough to allow them to be part of the EU elections.

It's bad enough to see the appalling behaviour of Farage and the other Brexiteers in the European Parliament as it is. They could get even more obstructive if they start pedaling the idea that they're being held there "against their will".

I'd say at this point the EU just want rid of them.

I can only imagine what kind of stunt Farage would try to pull at a new session of the EU parliament. My guess would be that he shows up, bound in chains with a sort of glum expression on his face.

VinLieger

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

There is. It's the 12th April, this day next week.

Usually, obstructing a process would halt it. Not so here given that the legal default is a crash out Brexit. I really Corbyn will be savvy enough to either insist on a GE, a people's vote or distance himself from this debacle. Brexit is a project of the hard right. There's no reason for him to entangle himself in it unless he wins sufficient concessions to leave it a BrINO.

Fingers crossed we'll at least content the European Parliamentary elections.

I only saw this clip for the first time today watching Frankie Boyle's show today, its something i knew he believed but hearing him say it with such enthusiasm really joins the dots on how he's behaved the last 3 years. Your correct in that in its current form it is indeed a project of the hard right but it falls in line with exactly what he wants going off this clip.

Hurrache

Hurrache wrote: »

They really are sore that's they've been outplayed diplomatically.

Very much this. Indeed, soreness about the entire calamity of continuous decline - 30 years in the EU between c. 1989 and 2019 being, ironically, their best years - that is their history since 1920. Long, long, long before they joined the EU Britain was in very serious decline - a decline punctuated by astonishing acts of conceit by British politicians such as Churchill's pegging sterling to the Gold Standard in 1925 at a ridiculously high rate which made British exports higher and resulted in an enormous rise in unemployment. Technologically, British industry collapsed decades before EU membership because they were undercut by more modern foreign industries in almost every sector. The British did not modernise across massive swathes of society. They failed. Nobody else can be blamed. All the time spouting the most delusional jingoistic nonsense to propagate this fake 'world power' self-image as a mask for decline. And aside from being bailed out by the Americans financially and militarily after WWII, as recently as 1976 Britain was forced to seek the largest loan ever to have been requested by the IMF.

But it's all the EU's fault! People wonder how an educated and cultured society like Germany's was hoodwinked by the xenophobic lies of populists and frauds from 1930 on. Right before our eyes, we are witnessing this in Britain. The venom accompanying those lies today is increasingly disturbing. The discourse is much more coarse, careless and devoid of simple meas for everybody else. The rise in a British English nationalist sense of victimhood has a particular resonance to 1930s Germany. All indicators are that it is only going to get much, much worse.

LeinsterDub

Evd-Burner wrote: »

I'm at a complete loss for words after reading that to be honest!

You read it? I couldn't get past the opening paragraph!

joe40

But it's all the EU's fault! People wonder how an educated and cultured society like Germany's was hoodwinked by the xenophobic lies of populists and frauds from 1930 on. Right before our eyes, we are witnessing this in Britain. The venom accompanying those lies today is increasingly disturbing. The discourse is much more coarse, careless and devoid of simple meas for everybody else. The rise in a British English nationalist sense of victimhood has a particular resonance to 1930s Germany. All indicators are that it is only going to get much, much worse.[/QUOTE]

A lying, unregulated press didn't help matters. James O'Brien did a piece on all the lies that have been spouted in the British press over the last 20 years recently. He was quite rightly annoyed at the lack of consequences for publishing absolute nonsense and downright lies.

The EU have collated all the stories/headlines published the last 20 odd years.(see link) Damning indictment of the integrity of British newspapers.

https://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/

swampgas

I was listening to a podcast about information warfare and there was a discussion of the old concept of "agitprop". I was reminded immediately of Brexit.

Agitate the target population, make them annoyed/outraged/upset about something, and then sell them your solution. Much of the British press has been undermining the state like this in a really obvious way for decades.

The British don't seem to see it because their press is so familiar to them. But to an outsider it's pretty shocking and obvious what the press are up to, and even if there are British people who can see it, they are afraid to stand up and call the press out on it either in case they are targeted themselves.

IMO the British press is truly toxic, and any reform of the UK as a whole will require major reform of the way the newpapers operate.

An Ciarraioch

seamus wrote: »

Kind of.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_internationale_de_la_Francophonie

It's not the same thing as the British Commonwealth at all, and we joined as an observer. It was formed in 1970 by a number of independent nations.

If you're an English nationalist though it's a French Commonwealth, and even recognising its existence makes you in some way a treacherous smelly colonial Frenchman.

A mere 19 EU states appear to be involved either as full, associate or observer members - really does read a mixture of condescension and throwing toys out of the pram.

Doc07

swampgas wrote: »

I was listening to a podcast about information warfare and there was a discussion of the old concept of "agitprop". I was reminded immediately of Brexit.

Agitate the target population, make them annoyed/outraged/upset about something, and then sell them your solution. Much of the British press has been undermining the state like this in a really obvious way for decades.

The British don't seem to see it because their press is so familiar to them. But to an outsider it's pretty shocking and obvious what the press are up to, and even if there are British people who can see it, they are afraid to stand up and call the press out on it either in case they are targeted themselves.

IMO the British press is truly toxic, and any reform of the UK as a whole will require major reform of the way the newpapers operate.

I remember this headline published without any hint of irony and stated as fact in the Express a few weeks before Brexit vote in 2016

‘New migrant 'invasion' of Britain bigger than the Vikings, Romans and Norman Conquest’

It was then I realized that Brexit might actually be voted in. One of the other rags published a pic of refugee camp in France with subtitle ‘Invaders’ also.

ancapailldorcha

VinLieger wrote: »

I only saw this clip for the first time today watching Frankie Boyle's show today, its something i knew he believed but hearing him say it with such enthusiasm really joins the dots on how he's behaved the last 3 years. Your correct in that in its current form it is indeed a project of the hard right but it falls in line with exactly what he wants going off this clip.

Thanks for sharing that.

The man of principle that we're told he is has proven to be nothing more than a myth. This just adds to the evidence for that.

Shelga

Is there any chance Jeremy Corbyn will decide not to lead Labour in the next general election?- for the long-term good of the party. Any chance??

Heard Jess Phillips on a podcast recently, saying that whenever Corbyn goes, it’s likely going to be his own decision. Sadly I think this is true.

An Claidheamh

Anteayer wrote: »

It's written in the tone of a psycho ex husband (or wife) who has discovered his former chattle from years ago actually has other friends.

Wow.

Just when think they could not get more decrepit and pathetic.

The British, in my view, have always been jealous of Ireland.
Having a culture, being liked, elected government, better quality of life.

I think my favourite part was where he claims the British commonwealth is not British, and moans that Ireland has nothing in common with French African colonies.... but apparently does with British ones.

Britain and British imperialism is such a defunct notion that they are essentially begging us for recognition, even trying to claim we hate our descendants in Australia.
It would be "mature" to bow to Britain?

Of course, that proud Irish descendants despise the British empire is lost on this looney.


Before, you have any sympathy for Varadkar and Fine Gael, he allows this nonsense from British nationalism by wearing poppies, celebrating their army and defending Frank Feighan and attacking Sinn Féin.

Kermit.de.frog

Wow!!! An arch tory Brexiter actually GETS IT

https://twitter.com/DKShrewsbury/status/1114164365953990664

Tell me how

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Wow!!! An arch tory Brexiter actually GETS IT

https://twitter.com/DKShrewsbury/status/1114164365953990664

Twitter really is a battleground now isn't it. Nick Boles, Jacobs Rees-Mogg, Guy Verhofstadt, Tusk and many others now using it very much as a political interface.

The content of the above message (as with Boles and Rees-Mogg) just shows how acrimonious things now have become. The most accurate response would be 'No Sh*t Sherlock'. That was obvious from 23 June 2016 when NI voted to remain.

Leroy42

John Redwood has cracked it. They simply need to leave and 'offer' a FTA agreement.

The job is oxo.

Why did nobody think of this earlier?

https://twitter.com/johnredwood/status/1114145526281396224?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1114145526281396224&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theguardian.com%2Fpolitics%2Fblog%2Flive%2F2019%2Fapr%2F05%2Fbrexit-latest-news-developments-live-theresa-may-writes-to-eu-requesting-another-article-50-extension-but-only-until-30-june-live-news

Leroy42

Arlene has had her say about the extension letter.

This bit stood out for me:

We want a sensible deal which protects the union and respects the referendum result but it was foolish strategically in the negotiations to limit the UK’s leverage by removing ‘no deal’ from the table.

So it seems that they would have got that great deal if only they hadn't taken no deal off the table. Why oh why did they take it off the table so early in the negotiations?

What is that you say? What do you mean they never removed it and it has been the very corner of the strategy? That would mean No deal was never the bargaining chip they think it was.

Have I missed something recently? Is No Deal off the table?

Leroy42

Deleted User wrote: »

Have I missed something recently? Is No Deal off the table?

No, but they need to blame something for the mess and so they want to rewrite history to say that if only they had really believed, and TM had really gone with No Deal then everything would have been fine.

Of course the reality is that TM has actively pursued No Deal as an option, continued to threaten it and even now it is the default. But the EU has not blinked.
The reason it is the default is that the UK were so sure of themselves at the start of the process that they firmly believed that it was a major weapon in the arsenal, and that having it as default would force the EU to make a deal with the UK.

It has worked out exactly the opposite. Now the UK is scrambling to try to avoid the very thing that they said was their strongest hand!

Tacitus Kilgore

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Wow!!! An arch tory Brexiter actually GETS IT

https://twitter.com/DKShrewsbury/status/1114164365953990664

You mean this guy?

[URL=

https://twitter.com/PropertySpot/status/1088058967572520961[/URL]

He doesn't, he's just preserving his own position as always.


Edit* I never tried to embed a tweet before.. help?

MikeSoys

Deleted User wrote: »

Have I missed something recently? Is No Deal off the table?

no deal if default option if nothing is agreed...