Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

LeinsterDub

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1116391894244835329

So any deal was in fact better than no deal.

Headshot

Gintonious wrote: »

https://twitter.com/jrmaidment/status/1116338241081311232

You'd almost feel sorry for Sammy...almost.

Well done Mrs May about time

It's amazing how the Conservatives have turned on the DUP, even their supposed loyal friends in the ERG are fed up of them.

The DUP have really made a balls of the greats cards they were given, NI could of had the best of both worlds and the economy could of grown so much but they just coudnt get over their strange fanatical relationship with England.

Laois_Man

RobertKK wrote: »

The UK is closing down their no deal planning section of the civil service according to Sky news.

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1116391388638318597

After spending £4 billion already?

This is only damaging to themselves if they don't do something constructive to either cancel brexit or get out in an orderly way. The notion that these extensions will continue for years until some fruitcake gets elected over there fills me with dread

First Up

Headshot wrote:

The DUP have really made a balls of the greats cards they were given, NI could of had the best of both worlds and the economy could of grown so much but they just coudnt get over their strange fanatical relationship with England.

More their hatred of the Republic.

steddyeddy

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2019/0411/1042149-foster-barnier-meeting/?fbclid=IwAR2LVQcaEUy9FpWqV7YsJzegcfEtz10u4O5C1DUtObsMUrB5Iuip6NW-VzY

Arlene and the DUP are telling Barnier that unionists don't want the backstop. It's bewildering to me that the DUP, an extremist party in Northern Ireland are negotiating for all of Northern Ireland, a region which voted to remain in the EU. Not only are they the only proponents of leave in Northern Ireland, they're one of the most extreme Brexit party in the UK and potentially they're driving the UK towards a hard Brexit.

Europe needs to hear and understand unionist concerns about the Northern Ireland backstop, Arlene Foster has said.

In a meeting in Brussels, the Democratic Unionist leader told EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier that unionists in the region opposed the Withdrawal Agreement because of the contentious mechanism.

Afterwards, she warned that the UK and EU would move "inexorably towards a no-deal scenario" if changes to the backstop were not made.

Mrs Foster contends that the EU has ignored the feelings of unionists on the issue, and has instead been influenced by the pro-backstop lobbying of Irish nationalists.

Sardonicat

steddyeddy wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2019/0411/1042149-foster-barnier-meeting/?fbclid=IwAR2LVQcaEUy9FpWqV7YsJzegcfEtz10u4O5C1DUtObsMUrB5Iuip6NW-VzY

Arlene and the DUP are telling Barnier that unionists don't want the backstop. It's bewildering to me that the DUP, an extremist party in Northern Ireland are negotiating for all of Northern Ireland, a region which voted to remain in the EU. Not only are they the only proponents of leave in Northern Ireland, they're one of the most extreme Brexit party in the UK and potentially they're driving the UK towards a hard Brexit.

Europe needs to hear and understand unionist concerns about the Northern Ireland backstop, Arlene Foster has said.

In a meeting in Brussels, the Democratic Unionist leader told EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier that unionists in the region opposed the Withdrawal Agreement because of the contentious mechanism.

Afterwards, she warned that the UK and EU would move "inexorably towards a no-deal scenario" if changes to the backstop were not made.

Mrs Foster contends that the EU has ignored the feelings of unionists on the issue, and has instead been influenced by the pro-backstop lobbying of Irish nationalists.

Surely she's on a hiding to nothing there? They'll tell her where to go, won't they?

Mr.Nice Guy

RobertKK wrote: »

LBC is both a great radio station and potentially dangerous...

Last night I was awake it was around 3am, I had a late night...a caller from Cornwall rang up to say Cornwall needs to become an independent country so they can leave the EU and the 17.4 million voters are welcome to move there.
Darren Adam the presenter was in disbelief at the caller.

At the moment there is a caller on the Nigel Farage show comparing remainers who talk to people in charge in the EU to people who helped Nazis in WW2.
Nigel Farage did zero to shutdown this talk.

Funnily enough I heard similar when listening to BBC's Nolan show earlier. Caller lashes out at 'smug Varadkar' and falsely says Ireland were one of the countries during the war that helped Nazi Germany ruin Europe. The stand-in host Vinny Hurrell doesn't even correct this trash. Can be heard here at 37:30...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0003yyg

Jim2007

steddyeddy wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2019/0411/1042149-foster-barnier-meeting/?fbclid=IwAR2LVQcaEUy9FpWqV7YsJzegcfEtz10u4O5C1DUtObsMUrB5Iuip6NW-VzY

Arlene and the DUP are telling Barnier that unionists don't want the backstop. It's bewildering to me that the DUP, an extremist party in Northern Ireland are negotiating for all of Northern Ireland, a region which voted to remain in the EU. Not only are they the only proponents of leave in Northern Ireland, they're one of the most extreme Brexit party in the UK and potentially they're driving the UK towards a hard Brexit.

Well first of all she is not negotiating for anyone, Barnier is only meeting her out of curtesy. And the second thinking is that negotiations are over, the EU have no intentions of opening it up again unless the UK government shifts very dramatically from their current position.

Spanish Eyes

Would have been a great investment to give each DUP member a million quid to move to UK and leave NI and give up their seats.

Sorry now, but that is half joke, whole in earnest.

I do realise it is aspirational, but at this stage I am at the end of my tether with that crowd.

The only good thing to come of it is the diplomatic silence from our own Government. And they played it right IMO.

Akrasia

Cryptopagan wrote: »

I still can’t accept that counting my 7th preference is empowering. Personally I don’t list my preferences so far down the ballot, as I don’t see ranking my least preferred candidates as very meaningful.

You should always fill out the full ballot just so you can put the candidate you definitely don't want to win as your last preference. This way PRSTV allows you to both vote for who you want to win as well as against who you want to lose.

serfboard

Jim2007 wrote: »

Barnier is only meeting her out of curtesy.

Yeah, I can imagine Barnier saying to himself: "Oh God, do I have to meet this one again", and then mentally switching off during Arlene's ranting only to finish the meeting by thanking her for coming to meet him, telling her that he'll "take her concerns on board" and instantly forgetting everything she said.

Akrasia

RobertKK wrote: »

The UK is closing down their no deal planning section of the civil service according to Sky news.

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1116391388638318597

The most expensive bluff in modern political history

First Up

Akrasia wrote:

You should always fill out the full ballot just so you can put the candidate you definitely don't want to win as your last preference. This way PRSTV allows you to both vote for who you want to win as well as against who you want to lose.

If you definitely don't want a candidate to win, you shouldn't vote for them.

Leroy42

Akrasia wrote: »

The most expensive bluff in modern political history

It really quite staggering that so little is being raised about this.

There are food banks and schools are having to close early on Fridays to save money and TM wasted all this money on a game of chicken?

lawred2

Akrasia wrote: »

The most expensive bluff in modern political history

Inquiry levels of recklessness and waste really

I'm sure that Brexit has been good for someone

igCorcaigh

Akrasia wrote: »

You should always fill out the full ballot just so you can put the candidate you definitely don't want to win as your last preference. This way PRSTV allows you to both vote for who you want to win as well as against who you want to lose.

I used to vote down the line like that, but no more. Any vote is an endorsement.

I do love the PR system though. Imagine the change in UK and US if they had it.

FrancieBrady

steddyeddy wrote: »

https://www.rte.ie/news/brexit/2019/0411/1042149-foster-barnier-meeting/?fbclid=IwAR2LVQcaEUy9FpWqV7YsJzegcfEtz10u4O5C1DUtObsMUrB5Iuip6NW-VzY

Arlene and the DUP are telling Barnier that unionists don't want the backstop. It's bewildering to me that the DUP, an extremist party in Northern Ireland are negotiating for all of Northern Ireland, a region which voted to remain in the EU. Not only are they the only proponents of leave in Northern Ireland, they're one of the most extreme Brexit party in the UK and potentially they're driving the UK towards a hard Brexit.

Nobody is listening to the DUP in the UK now, never mind Europe. They played their card and lost.

serfboard

Leroy42 wrote: »

It really quite staggering that so little is being raised about this.

There are food banks and schools are having to close early on Fridays to save money and TM wasted all this money on a game of chicken?

I'd say James O'Brien will be all over this tomorrow morning using exactly the same arguments as you have.

igCorcaigh

lawred2 wrote: »

Inquiry levels of recklessness and waste really

I'm sure that Brexit has been good for someone

Lot of bets made by the likes of Mogg. If it doesn't come through, I'll be happy enough for that reason alone.

Capt'n Midnight

Headshot wrote: »

The DUP have really made a balls of the greats cards they were given, NI could of had the best of both worlds and the economy could of grown so much but they just coudnt get over their strange fanatical relationship with England.

Unless it's a cunning plan to collapse Brexit and maintain the status quo.

Maybe it's May's plan ?


And if you believe any of the above I could probably sell you this bridge.

Having said that May will be happy to be on the winning side and the DUP will be happy to have fought the good fight ( while preserving the status quo )

trashcan

Gintonious wrote: »

https://twitter.com/jrmaidment/status/1116338241081311232

You'd almost feel sorry for Sammy...almost.

Fair play to May, for once (but credit where it's due) I didn't think she had that in her, and wee Sammy sitting there with a face like a well scelped arse. Nice

Zubeneschamali

Anteayer wrote: »

If you read my post (a little further back up the page). I didn't suggest that booting the UK out is a solution.

I was criticizing Macron, not you.

BarryD2

Leroy42 wrote: »

And that is a major danger of how the EU is handling this whole process. They are giving the impression that they are willing to put up with all sorts of messing because the costs to them are so high. I think this latest extension, since it is clearly a fudge, will come back to bite the EU.

I think the EU are/were trying to strike a balance between giving the UK enough time to come to an agreed solution and getting sucked into the poison chamber of Tory politics.

So the EU leaders couldn't reasonably just say 'be gone on Friday' as too close, so had to be some sort of extension. I thought they might go for a shorter one than they did on basis of what you say - the next few months could easily be eaten up in procrastination & recrimination. At least a short extension would have focused the mind and put it up to the UK at the outside risk of a No Deal, which the HoC don't want. Macron saw it.

BarryD2

steddyeddy wrote: »

It's bewildering to me that the DUP, an extremist party in Northern Ireland are negotiating for all of Northern Ireland, a region which voted to remain in the EU. Not only are they the only proponents of leave in Northern Ireland, they're one of the most extreme Brexit party in the UK and potentially they're driving the UK towards a hard Brexit.

It is extraordinary how they have become the main voice for our Northern Irish friends. If you're not in, you can't win.

Thargor

Why does Sammy Wilson get to speak so much in the Commons? There are hundreds of MPs we never hear from, he seems to get a question every time they sit...

nice_guy80

Thargor wrote: »

Why does Sammy Wilson get to speak so much in the Commons? There are hundreds of MPs we never hear from, he seems to get a question every time they sit...

DUP spokesperson

robinph

Thargor wrote: »

Why does Sammy Wilson get to speak so much in the Commons? There are hundreds of MPs we never hear from, he seems to get a question every time they sit...

Because they are the equal 4th (?) biggest party with the Lib Dems. They get a set number of questions for each opposition party leader depending on their number of MPs in PMQs for example.

L1011

robinph wrote: »

Because they are the equal 4th (?) biggest party with the Lib Dems. They get a set number of questions for each opposition party leader depending on their number of MPs in PMQs for example.

They have one less than the Lib Dems, TIG/CUK are joint 4th with the LDs and the DUP are now 6th.

robinph

L1011 wrote: »

They have one less than the Lib Dems, TIG/CUK are joint 4th with the LDs and the DUP are now 6th.

Independent group don't count yet I think, just bundled in with all other independent MPs until they are officially a party.

CelticRambler

Anteayer wrote: »

Well, Macron is currently on a whopping 27% approval rating and RN / FN is poised to take a slice of the French EP seats that could be at least as big as Macron’s grouping, even if he’s just barely got a tiny lead now there isn’t likely to be much in it.

47% of French people recently polled for France Info (Radio France) and Le Monde see le Rassemblement national (RN) as getting into actual power in government. Unfortunately, I have to disagree with you. Le Pen has a future and seems to be successfully pulling off a rebrand of her party, which could easily see a French mess that’s as bad as Brexit or Trumpism emerge.

There's so much misunderstanding of French politics in those two paragraphs, that it's almost worthy of a "fake news" label! First of all: Macron's 27% popularity is indeed "whopping" - the highest he's ever scored, thanks to his intelligent handling of the gilets jaunes, and 3 percentage points higher than he polled in the presidential election.

Secondly, while 47% of French people say that they can imagine a scenario whereby Marine Le Pen achieves a meaningful role in parliament, that doesn't mean they want it to happen. Her new "it's a movement, not a party" party is only neck-and-neck in the polls (less so since last weekend's debate) insofar as it relates to the first round. In other words, exactly the same as last time out, and the time before, and the time before that. France's first-two-past-the-post system means that her xenophoic racist bigotted candidates have to attract support from all their natural enemies to win the second round, whereas Macron's lot only have to attract everyone who hates Marine Le Pen (which is about 60-70% of the electorate).

From this side of the Channel, there's a much simpler explanation for Macron's stance: under his stewardship, France's economy is finally getting back on its feet. What the country really needs now is an influx of new business and new investment, and the best place to steal that from is a Brexited UK. Forget all this leprechaun nonsense about Ireland having a huge advantage being the only English-speaking country in the EU - the serious business centres in France can converse in English just as well as anyone from Dublin, Cork or Galway. Even in the middle of nowhere (e.g. where I live!) many jobs are advertised with the obligatory criterion "good level of English essential".