Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

lawred2

Hurrache wrote: »

Just heard on the News at 1, Bombardier selling up completely in the north for consolidation purposes. Probably little to do with Brexit but adds to the issues up there.

Will there be a buyer out there?

Hurrache

lawred2 wrote: »

Will there be a buyer out there?

Can't see it, especially with the uncertainty around Brexit. Why would you buy somewhere where you've no idea what trade deals and market access you'll be left with?

Unite union rep on News at 1 says they'll demand the UK government, if no buyer comes forward, to step in and do it to keep the employees employed. She's also saying they'll be fussy as to who they'd like to step in and buy it if there is a buyer. Beggars and choosers.

10000maniacs

Bombardier is selling off it's Belfast assets. The reason given is because of delayed EU contracts.
Now is the time for the DUP to man up and take their part in the responsibility for costing the province 4000 jobs.
The shameful Brexit games they played over the last 3 years played a big part in this decision.

Irish Praetorian

So the upshot of the election polling is that the No-Deal segment of the electorate is going from 24 seats to 28 or 30? Hardly surprising considering they consolidate about 35% of the UK vote by current estimations. The great question now I suspect is how Labour breaks; I'd suggest given they've managed to ride out the supposed 'abandonment' by the Labour Leave vote, that they consolidate as a Remain party, heck even try a few electoral alliances - but that might make too much sense.

McMurphy

10000maniacs wrote: »

Bombardier is selling off it's Belfast assets. The reason given is because of delayed EU contracts.
Now is the time for the DUP to man up and take their part in the responsibility for costing the province 4000 jobs.
The shameful Brexit games they played over the last 3 years played a big part in this decision.

I just headed over to this forum to post something similar.

Christy42

Irish Praetorian wrote: »

So the upshot of the election polling is that the No-Deal segment of the electorate is going from 24 seats to 28 or 30? Hardly surprising considering they consolidate about 35% of the UK vote by current estimations. The great question now I suspect is how Labour breaks; I'd suggest given they've managed to ride out the supposed 'abandonment' by the Labour Leave vote, that they consolidate as a Remain party, heck even try a few electoral alliances - but that might make too much sense.

I am sure that the media will simply report the massive gains for the Brexit party as opposed to pointing out the fact that most of the gains was simply taking away from a largely identical party.

Much like how the results of the recent Spanish election were portrayed.

LeinsterDub

https://twitter.com/lisaocarroll/status/1123903716954923009

The brexit benefits continue . 4,000 jobs at risk in one of west Europe's poorest areas

Inquitus

How many people work for Bombardier in Northern Ireland?
The company employs about 3,600 people in plane-making activities at a number of sites in and around Belfast. When suppliers are included, it is estimated to impact on 12,000 jobs.

Source

If those numbers are accurate its a massive hit to the NI Economy.

Enzokk

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

Latest UK poll for the Europeans, with seat projections:

http://twitter.com/ElectionMapsUK/status/1123907104148946945

Those are interesting. Labour will hopefully bleed support for their shambles the last few days. I am sick and tired of them hiding behind token gestures that they know will fail in asking for a second referendum. Barry Gardiner confirmed the leadership position and it is time for people to vote for parties that are actually interested in stopping Brexit. Labour is not the savior.

It has been posted before but Penny Morduant is the new Defense Secretary. She campaigned for Brexit and seems as slippery as an eel and very liberal with the truth.

She is asked about Turkey joining the EU and she states the UK doesn't have the tools to protect itself when Turkey joins. When it is pointed out to her there is the veto she asserts that she doesn't think the EU would stop Turkey from joining. Notice how she avoids the question that she is wrong by answering another slightly related question. I suppose she is better than Williamson though.

On Williamson, anybody else find it strange that he has committed this serious offence of leaking details of a very important and sensitive meeting where matter of national security is involved, but May doesn't think it is something for the justice system to have a look at?

ancapailldorcha

Inquitus wrote: »

Source

If those numbers are accurate its a massive hit to the NI Economy.

That's pretty harrowing. Normally, it wouldn't be too much of a concern as there is an adept workforce, relatively low expenses and facilities in place to entice potential buyers. Now though you have Brexit which means that purchasing the site and assets will put a lot of prospective buyers off.

Inquitus

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

That's pretty harrowing. Normally, it wouldn't be too much of a concern as there is an adept workforce, relatively low expenses and facilities in place to entice potential buyers. Now though you have Brexit which means that purchasing the site and assets will put a lot of prospective buyers off.

Aye you'd have to be crazy to consider buying the Bombardier NI Operations with the current unresolved Brexit turmoil, given it literally is a "pig in a poke" with soo many unknowns and imponderables until Brexit is settled, quantified and signed, sealed and delivered. Airbus themselves would perhaps consider it themselves if there were more clarity about the future.

Snickers Man

Hurrache wrote: »

Just heard on the News at 1, Bombardier selling up completely in the north for consolidation purposes. Probably little to do with Brexit....

You're kidding right?

Let's just state some bare facts, you can infer your version of the truth from them.

1) Bombardier (formerly Shorts) is Northern Ireland's largest private sector employer.

2) Most of its employees are from the Unionist (make that VERY Unionist) community

3) Much of its work at the moment is as a subcontractor to......Airbus.


So who would buy it? Airbus would seem to be the obvious candidate (Disclosure: I know next to feck all about the Airline business but what's to know? There's Boeing of America, Airbus of the EU and....,er,.....apart from a few minnows,....that's it.)

But Airbus is first and foremost an EU company. Its then CEO baldly stated a few weeks ago that its operations in Britain were likely to be threatened by Brexit, for which candour he was soundly denounced (as a German) by arch Brexiteer Mark Francois ("My daddy fought at D-Day and he didn't take no **** from no Krauts, neither will I. I'll tell you what you can do with your statement!")

I can't see how Airbus would have any interest in acquiring a company inside the UK when it is clearly considering ditching the assets it already has there and moving them back to its home base ie somewhere in the EU.

Unless........

a) Brexit is cancelled altogether or
b) the softest of soft Brexits incorporating membership of the customs union and single market takes place or
c) a rigid enforcement of an Ireland-only backstop to keep Northern Ireland in the EU for trading purposes.

One of those has to apply or that plant is history and there are a few thousand angry jaffas hanging around street corners looking for somebody to blame.


So what should be the most appropriate headline for this story?

BOMBARDIER BOLLIXES BREXIT

or alternatively

BOMBARDIER BUTTRESSES BACKSTOP

(We tabloid guys love our alliterative headlines )

ZeroThreat

Inquitus wrote: »

Source

If those numbers are accurate its a massive hit to the NI Economy.

It's like losing 30,000 jobs down here in one go.

tipp_tipp_tipp

I doubt the Bombardier announcement has much if anything to do with Brexit. Bombardier have been in a mess for some time and it sounds like they are finally going through a much needed reorganization. Will interesting to see if Airbus show an interest in the site. Would show a long term commitment to the A220.

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Don't dump tweets here please. There is a Tommy Robinson thread in After Hours which might be more suitable for that topic of discussion.

Headshot

tipp_tipp_tipp wrote: »

I doubt the Bombardier announcement has much if anything to do with Brexit. Bombardier have been in a mess for some time and it sounds like they are finally going through a much needed reorganization. Will interesting to see if Airbus show an interest in the site. Would show a long term commitment to the A220.

I personally think brexit isnt helping but the certain aftermath of trying to get a new buyer will struggle due to Brexit

Inquitus

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Mod: Don't dump tweets here please. There is a Tommy Robinson thread in After Hours which might be more suitable for that topic of discussion.

He was campaigning for the European elections, surely it's relevant to here?

ancapailldorcha

Inquitus wrote: »

He was campaigning for the European elections, surely it's relevant to here?

His getting a milkshake thrown in his face is not. Let's leave it there please.

Junkyard Tom

It'll be interesting to see if the unionist electorate punish the DUP for its Brexit stance in today's local elections in the north. Interesting to see what happens in England's locals too.

Itssoeasy

tipp_tipp_tipp wrote: »

I doubt the Bombardier announcement has much if anything to do with Brexit. Bombardier have been in a mess for some time and it sounds like they are finally going through a much needed reorganization. Will interesting to see if Airbus show an interest in the site. Would show a long term commitment to the A220.

I don't brexit was the sole reason for the car manufacturers to move production of a car somewhere else but it most certainly isn't helping.

listermint

Itssoeasy wrote: »

I don't brexit was the sole reason for the car manufacturers to move production of a car somewhere else but it most certainly isn't helping.

Many folks all talk about sole reason this sole reason that.

Business are run based on variation of inputs and single one can change the previously laid out plans.

Brexit has everything to do with job large scale company changes across the UK. Deniers don't understand how businesses make future plans.

An Claidheamh

Enzokk wrote: »

Those are interesting. Labour will hopefully bleed support for their shambles the last few days. I am sick and tired of them hiding behind token gestures that they know will fail in asking for a second referendum. Barry Gardiner confirmed the leadership position and it is time for people to vote for parties that are actually interested in stopping Brexit. Labour is not the savior.

It has been posted before but Penny Morduant is the new Defense Secretary. She campaigned for Brexit and seems as slippery as an eel and very liberal with the truth.

She is asked about Turkey joining the EU and she states the UK doesn't have the tools to protect itself when Turkey joins. When it is pointed out to her there is the veto she asserts that she doesn't think the EU would stop Turkey from joining. Notice how she avoids the question that she is wrong by answering another slightly related question. I suppose she is better than Williamson though.

On Williamson, anybody else find it strange that he has committed this serious offence of leaking details of a very important and sensitive meeting where matter of national security is involved, but May doesn't think it is something for the justice system to have a look at?

Amazing how normal it is in Britain to just spread dirt and to platform that you're singly against a country, Turkey.

Britain must be the xenophobic/racist capital of the world.

Who are they to lecture on who joins the EU or not.

"Organised crime in accession countries", bit like the terrorists in her government then.

If it borders an unstable region, they can blame themselves for making the middle east unstable.

Unlike the "united" Protestant Kingdom, Turkey is a secular Republic.

They're not in the EU so they won't be able to veto, the only thing she got right.


Anyway, here's an interesting piece that flies in the face of what the poppy-bots like to believe.

https://foreignpolicy.com/2019/05/02/br

Junkyard Tom

Both CONs and LAB taking a battering in the England locals.

Councillors elected -/+

LAB -57
CON -43
LDM +50

About 10% of results in.

dublinman1990

The conservatives are the biggest losers in the local elections in England so far with 103 losses.

Labour have lost over 54 seats. The Lib Dems are doing well gaining 75 seats.

dublinman1990

The tories losses in the locals are accelerating in England. They are down 170 seats so far because of their failures associated with Brexit. It has become a big recurring theme with how these elections have been announced to date across England. A lot of voters are very noticeably fed up with the tories are handling Brexit. It does feel like the issue of Brexit is making the tories become a big embarrassment when it comes to the polls. The main quote being mentioned on the BBC to both the tories & labour is that it's a "plague on both your houses". That type of rhetoric is very damning for both of these major parties in the UK.

These elections are not including London, Wales & Scotland this time round. If they were held in those areas; the impacts of the losses for the tories could be far, far bigger. The results in England are becoming a big disaster for the tories to date & a huge win for the Lib Dems and Independents.

But later on NI is next on the list today to get their results counted up this morning. The biggest wait of results for that is the DUP themselves need to be seen to be gaining from this election from Brexit otherwise, because of the DUP's current position on the NI Backstop & as NI voted to remain in the Brexit referendum, they could be in a lot of severe trouble as soon as the ballot papers hit the tables to be counted later today. The DUP have not got a lot to gain & whole lot to lose in this election when these votes are counted in NI. There is a big reason to keep your eyes glued to the screen if your an Irish citizen & want to see how the DUP are going to ride the storm as a backlash is formed on us keeping the backstop for as much as possible.

woohoo!!!

A 'solid' turnout being reported. Lots of speculation that Greens and Alliance will make gains. We'll see

listermint

Well this tweet is very telling. And a Blatant two fingers to the narrative about respecting the will and all that.


https://twitter.com/A50Challenge/status/1124214879919984645

Headshot

Im looking forward to the NI results, could be very fascinating

Hurrache

listermint wrote: »

Well this tweet is very telling. And a Blatant two fingers to the narrative about respecting the will and all that.


https://twitter.com/A50Challenge/status/1124214879919984645

And Laura Kuenssberg, jointly with Katya Adler, won a bloody award during the week for Broadcast Journalist of the Year from the London Press Club. Beating the likes of the Channel 4 Investigative team. A sorry state.

lawred2

Headshot wrote: »

Im looking forward to the NI results, could be very fascinating

I truly wouldn't expect so. There might be some micro changes but on a macro level you'll barely see any difference.

Voting in NI is primarily not on policy grounds.