Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

Itssoeasy

I tried to watch Theresa May speaking earlier today. The sky news video was about 19 minutes long and I got through 8 of those 19 minutes. What is she talking about and what was on the ceiling of the place she was talking that she was looking up at ?

BonnieSituation

Enzokk wrote: »

Channel 4 is not backing down on their Brexit Party funding questions.

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1130883234856951808

I think Nigel knows he is in trouble, you will notice in the clip he states he has not received any cash at all from Aron Banks and in any case it was nothing to do with politics so its nobodies business. Two problems I can see with that, you have to declare any gifts and cash you receive and having your rent paid is most definitely a gift even if the money is not paid to you (as an example). This is to ensure you are open and forthright about your views as a politician and whether you have a vested interests that may need your attention.

Then secondly, he is a politician and it was his choice to go into this line of work and that surely means there will be some scrutiny of his lifestyle, especially if it is much more lavish than his salary suggests it should be.

It's like CJ, John Delaney and Lance Armstrong rolled up into one.

He essentially couldn't keep himself contained and let the bravado get to himself. Hopefully it's going to come tumbling down soon enough.

patsman07

Thought this was a great article on the appeal of Farage:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/may/19/what-is-nigel-farage-secret-that-would-be-telling

dublinman1990

It seems to me that The Brexit Party don't seem to have their heads fully in check when dealing with things like political funding to keep their financial clout above water. With the manner they are carrying out their political funding; their agenda in pursuing methods for a No Deal Brexit by any means necessary under EU Law is potentially dangerous because it could potentially amplify the extent of their membership in who they are, what their current political status is & what country do they currently live. The electoral authorities must get all of the facts established in how Farage's party gets these people to fund it's political activities.

They need to (a) keep track of their movements through various financial institutions on a constant basis & (b) investigate whether the money raised will be removed from the parties books & become seized to be investigated for potential illegal activity & (c) whether do the potential criminal investigations highlight & warrant a serious criminal charge in expelling The Brexit Party for life from the workings of the EU Parliament. Point C in my post is something that I would like to get addressed at this point. Is there any definite possibility that any of the in-coming elected members of The Brexit Party from this Sunday, including Nigel Farage, could become banned from entering the EU parliament for life if their own funding was found to be illegal because of suspected criminal activity?

theballz

So a second referendum is now on the table? Surely it is a no brainer?

RickBlaine

theballz wrote: »

So a second referendum is now on the table? Surely it is a no brainer?

It is only on the table if parliament passes the WA.

It is not part of her deal. So basically they need to pass the WA first, and then a second separate vote on whether to subject it to a referendum.

It is a very desperate attempt by May to get her deal through. Based on the initial reaction today, it hasn't worked.

funkey_monkey

theballz wrote: »

So a second referendum is now on the table? Surely it is a no brainer?

No, its not on the table. Only for HoC to have a vote on having one. But everyone will have to vote for Mays deal to get the HoC vote. Surely no remainer is dumb enough to fall for that one.

Shelga

https://twitter.com/hugorifkind/status/1130820277187825664

Andrea Jenkyns is a complete moron. She falls apart at the most basic of questions, namely, could she name one other country who trades with the EU on WTO rules alone.

"Why do people care so much about trade with the EU anyway?? I want a global Britain!" she says, practically stamping her feet.

Erm, because 45% of the UK's total exports go to the EU, and you import 53% of your goods from them, you complete, utter, simpleton. It's kind of important. You are also willing to have trade agreements with 60 other countries be ripped up overnight.

The thick-headedness of 30-40% of the population of the UK still dumbfounds me so much, every day! The gift that keeps on giving...?

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Ease up on the insults please.

BonnieSituation

Shelga wrote: »

https://twitter.com/hugorifkind/status/1130820277187825664

Andrea Jenkyns is a complete moron. She falls apart at the most basic of questions, namely, could she name one other country who trades with the EU on WTO rules alone.

"Why do people care so much about trade with the EU anyway?? I want a global Britain!" she says, practically stamping her feet.

Erm, because 45% of the UK's total exports go to the EU, and you import 53% of your goods from them, you complete, utter, simpleton. It's kind of important. You are also willing to have trade agreements with 60 other countries be ripped up overnight.

The thick-headedness of 30-40% of the population of the UK still dumbfounds me so much, every day! The gift that keeps on giving...?

"Look how long it took us to get a Deal with Canada?"

How Ian Blackford is sitting there biting his tongue I will never know.

Shelga

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

Mod: Ease up on the insults please.

Sorry I just struggle to comprehend the scale of the abdication of responsibility and accountability of people like Andrea Jenkyns. I do try to think of polite words for moron, honest!

I've thought for a long time now that people who want a no-deal Brexit either do not care about its consequences, or do not understand. Both positions, at this stage, are contemptible.

ancapailldorcha

Shelga wrote: »

Sorry I just struggle to comprehend the scale of the abdication of responsibility and accountability of people like Andrea Jenkyns. I do try to think of polite words for moron, honest!

I've thought for a long time now that people who want a no-deal Brexit either do not care about its consequences, or do not understand. Both positions, at this stage, are contemptible.

Well, I live here.

Name calling does not make for constructive debate.

Anyway, let's leave it there. Feel free to PM me any questions.

marno21

Shelga wrote: »

https://twitter.com/hugorifkind/status/1130820277187825664

Andrea Jenkyns is a complete moron. She falls apart at the most basic of questions, namely, could she name one other country who trades with the EU on WTO rules alone.

"Why do people care so much about trade with the EU anyway?? I want a global Britain!" she says, practically stamping her feet.

Erm, because 45% of the UK's total exports go to the EU, and you import 53% of your goods from them, you complete, utter, simpleton. It's kind of important. You are also willing to have trade agreements with 60 other countries be ripped up overnight.

The thick-headedness of 30-40% of the population of the UK still dumbfounds me so much, every day! The gift that keeps on giving...?

One thing these charlatans are not considering is how much public opinion is changing in favour of greater attempts to combat climate change and reduce greenhouse emissions. Shipping products to SE Asia instead of Belgium does not tally with this.

Of course this is a complete aside from the continuing reduction in goods exports and the greater importance of services to the UK economy.

Enzokk

Here is an interesting article on what the job of an MEP is like.

Just in case you're interested, this is what the European parliament actually does

The EU is confusing and complicated, and the European parliament is no different. It has developed over 60 years from a symbolic institution comprising delegates from national parliaments, to a comprehensive and influential directly-elected legislature holding the EU's bodies to account. Yes, it is bureaucratic. Yes, it can be inflexible. Yes, it is governed by many rules. That is the necessary product of an institution featuring 751 members from 28 countries, using three main working languages (English, French and German), and which interprets and translates all official meetings and documents into 24 official languages. But the place I worked in for two years was also a forum of ideas and cultures, where people from different countries gathered to negotiate their way out of problems, and where almost everyone was motivated by a genuine desire to cooperate and improve our continent.

I think one of the points raised is the way the European Parliament is perceived in the UK. It is seen as a step down, with not much power and on the level of Parish Councillor, yet the truth is if you do your job you have a way to influence and work with others to try and improve the lives of those that sought to send you to the EP.

This is not just a puff piece as he points out the negatives, the move to Strasbourg takes place every month for votes and then they return to Brussels. This is a waste, but it is a veto from France that stops that arrangement from changing. You would think if France was serious about transforming the EU, or at least the appearance of it, they would consider changing this but it is what it is I suppose.

LeinsterDub

https://twitter.com/davemacladd/status/1130964633442017287

Brexit (n) - "The undefined being negotiated by the unprepared in order to get the unspecified for the uninformed" seems to sum this up perfectly as a woman with a microphone shouts at David Davies for not being brexit enough.

murphaph

That's quite surreal.

Leroy42

Being honest, I really would have struggled not to lash out at that woman in that position.

Whilst I am no apologist for military, for this woman to call a person that gave 10 years in service to his country a traitor is appalling and must be like a dagger to the heart of someone who was once minded to sign up.

It is clear that Brexiteers see everything and everybody as part of a massive conspiracy against them. The EU, the BBC, Lords, Courts, the media as a whole, and pretty much everyone else. Yet nobody ever seems to accept that since Farage was rejected 7 times by the electorate it is clearly the will of the people that he should have nothing to do with domestic politics.

BonnieSituation

I could feel my brain getting itchy watching that.

Terrifying.

Leroy42

Based on the reactions in the media it seems that TM latest attempt to solve the crisis has been less than successful.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/22/desperate-deluded-doomed-what-the-papers-say-on-mays-new-brexit-deal

There is now talk of pulling the vote for WAB in June since it will almost certainly fail.

Has there ever been a PM that has so often made things worse when given the platform of the lectern? It seems every time she tries to shape the agenda she simply makes things even worse.

Who is advising her? Is no one previewing the speeches? Why did her cabinet allow her to give such a terrible speech? And why, after so many years, has someone not taken her aside and given her lessons on how to speak in public and avoid all that gurning? I get it that it is a personal 'tick', but it simply aides in the mockery and should have been dealt with.

Topgear on Dave

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=

Sammy Wilson on rte radio now.

Brace yourselves for this..... The DUP will be voting No. :pac:

Enzokk

Leroy42 wrote: »

Based on the reactions in the media it seems that TM latest attempt to solve the crisis has been less than successful.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/22/desperate-deluded-doomed-what-the-papers-say-on-mays-new-brexit-deal

There is now talk of pulling the vote for WAB in June since it will almost certainly fail.

Has there ever been a PM that has so often made things worse when given the platform of the lectern? It seems every time she tries to shape the agenda she simply makes things even worse.

Who is advising her? Is no one previewing the speeches? Why did her cabinet allow her to give such a terrible speech? And why, after so many years, has someone not taken her aside and given her lessons on how to speak in public and avoid all that gurning? I get it the it is a personal 'tick', but it simply aides in the mockery and should have been dealt with.

It is not her advisers that is the problem, it is Brexit. It will always be Brexit. That is why getting rid of her will not solve the problem unless they go full nuclear and leave without a deal, which solves the problem of how to leave. But that opens a pandora box of problems that they will wish they had not opened up.

The post with the MP being confronted by the Brexit supporter is a warning. That is what happens when you allow a question of incredible complexity be answered by a simple yes or no. She may think she is smart but in reality she is the one who also would have stopped Brexit by voting against the Brexit deal. It is not Remainers that has caused the delays, but those advocating against her deal but want to leave.

Laois_Man

Leroy42 wrote: »

Has there ever been a PM that has so often made things worse when given the platform of the lectern?

Sky News say not only is May failing in getting additional votes from MV3, she's actually failing to keep a lot the supporters she had on MV3 :rolleyes:

brickster69

There was a live debate this morning between Farage & Cable this morning.

https://twitter.com/Telegraph/status/1131108124775944193

You may have to forward the link because Vince Cable was delayed by 20 minutes for it.

Christy42

British Steel has gone completely into receivership (I know their issues have been commented on before but it seems to have escalated when it could secure a loan from the government).

Certainly steel has had issues (it nearly collapsed in 2016 and had received a loan last year) but it had returned to profitability and it has repeatedly pointed out lost orders from the EU (which is looking to secure it's own supply lines past Brexit).

4000 jobs in scunthorpe plus a massive amount of support jobs at risk. Noting this is from a population of under 100,000.

Akrasia

It's such a statement when the Brexiteers put so much media focus on 'saving Britain's fishing industry' which employs about 12000 fishermen down from a peak of 20,000, while their automotive, steel, pharmaceutical, aeronautical, farming and tourism industries are all facing huge losses from brexit with the loss of hundreds of thousands of jobs and the potential devastation of whole regions of the UK

Leroy42

And of course Farage has come out and claimed that the failure of British Steel is all down to the EU. Vince Cable, 5 years the industry secretary, tried to explain that whilst rules do indeed exist he had never been halted in any decision by the EU in his time, after making the argument.

Whilst a valid argument, it was I felt, the wrong approach. There is little point trying to point out the realities of the EU to Farage and the Brexiteers. They have their position and nothing will change it. What he should have done is asked what Farage's plan would be? Where was the money to come from. Farage will obviously retort with the savings from EU membership, but simply ask if the NHS will then do without what he had promised.

Then of course widen it out to ask should all corporations be bailed out? Nationalise the railways, what about M&S, Tesco?

Strazdas

Leroy42 wrote: »

And of course Farage has come out and claimed that the failure of British Steel is all down to the EU. Vince Cable, 5 years the industry secretary, tried to explain that whilst rules do indeed exist he had never been halted in any decision by the EU in his time, after making the argument.

Whilst a valid argument, it was I felt, the wrong approach. There is little point trying to point out the realities of the EU to Farage and the Brexiteers. They have their position and nothing will change it. What he should have done is asked what Farage's plan would be? Where was the money to come from. Farage will obviously retort with the savings from EU membership, but simply ask if the NHS will then do without what he had promised.

Then of course widen it out to ask should all corporations be bailed out? Nationalise the railways, what about M&S, Tesco?

One wonders if Farage even believes half the garbage he comes out with. It's a moot point...the suspicion is that he is such a chancer and spoofer that he will say virtually anything to boost his own popularity.

Thargor

Theresa all alone on the front bench there, Guardian and Sky journalists saying they're hearing from sources that things could start happening very soon.

Leroy42

Thargor wrote: »

Theresa all alone on the front bench there, Guardian and Sky journalists saying they're hearing from sources that things could start happening very soon.

It is actually pretty shameful. I know cabinet collective responsibility is well gone but to simply abandon your leader like that! The cabinet must have signed off on this course yesterday, of not they should have resigned, and thus to simply turn their backs on it shows them for the chancers they are.

I know, I know, its politics, but doesn't make it any less unedifying.

Strazdas

Thargor wrote: »

Theresa all alone on the front bench there, Guardian and Sky journalists saying they're hearing from sources that things could start happening very soon.

There's speculation they'll wait until Monday (after the European election results have come in) and then things might start kicking off.