Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

c_murph

Strazdas wrote: »

There's speculation they'll wait until Monday (after the European election results have come in) and then things might start kicking off.

Could be sooner - apparently one Minister has said they need to do it today or she'll be there for another two weeks - quoted by the Mirror's Pippa Crerar.
They are going into recess so I guess she could be safe during that time.

54and56

c_murph wrote: »

Could be sooner - apparently one Minister has said they need to do it today or she'll be there for another two weeks - quoted by the Mirror's Pippa Crerar.
They are going into recess so I guess she could be safe during that time.

I absolutely love the brass neck of the hard line Brexiteers who lost the vote to oust TM a few months ago, don't like the result and not only are they advocating that the outcome of that democratic vote is over turned but that they throw out their own long established rule that a sitting leader cannot be challenged again for another 12 months.

On one hand they are shouting that a vote taken 3 years ago on the basis of a lot of mis-information, undeliverable promises and outright electoral fraud cannot under any circumstances be overturned or re-run now that the facts of what Brexit will mean to the country are a lot clearer whilst on the other hand they clamour for a vote taken just a few months ago which they lost should be overturned even if that means tearing up their own party rules in order to force it through.

Why has no political interviewer that I've seen over the past few weeks challenge ERG and 1922 Committee members on this irreconcilable position?

Quin_Dub

c_murph wrote: »

Could be sooner - apparently one Minister has said they need to do it today or she'll be there for another two weeks - quoted by the Mirror's Pippa Crerar.
They are going into recess so I guess she could be safe during that time.

God forbid that Critical , Generational impact affairs of state might interfere with yet another holiday for Parliament..

spacecoyote

Christy42 wrote: »

British Steel has gone completely into receivership (I know their issues have been commented on before but it seems to have escalated when it could secure a loan from the government).

Certainly steel has had issues (it nearly collapsed in 2016 and had received a loan last year) but it had returned to profitability and it has repeatedly pointed out lost orders from the EU (which is looking to secure it's own supply lines past Brexit).

4000 jobs in scunthorpe plus a massive amount of support jobs at risk. Noting this is from a population of under 100,000.

This one from Farage has aged well

https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/716184709496180736

CelticRambler

Leroy42 wrote: »

What he should have done is asked what Farage's plan would be? Where was the money to come from.

This should have been - and still should be - the persistent line of attack by the Remain camp. It's pretty incredible that the one and only person in the whole British media establishment that challenges Brexiteers in this way is James O'Brien, and yet it is the fundamental error in every aspect of Brexit, whether that be the infamous 350m/wk, the supposdely overbearing EU legislation or the effective control of cross-border trade between the UK and Ireland.

Tabnabs

Standby for more continued chaos and uncertainty.

https://twitter.com/joncraig/status/1131220451806588929

Professor Moriarty

Tabnabs wrote: »

Standby for more continued chaos and uncertainty.

https://twitter.com/joncraig/status/1131220451806588929

The economy is beginning to tank and democracy is fragmenting as populism surges, but British press is breathless about who will be the next leader of the Tory party. This is deckchairs on the Titanic stuff.

spacecoyote

spacecoyote wrote: »

This one from Farage has aged well

https://twitter.com/Nigel_Farage/status/716184709496180736

He was technically correct as the UK are still in the EU and British Steel failed.
Would probably have failed after Brexit anyway, but could have been bailed out (in defiance of EU rules).

knipex

theguzman wrote: »

Boris for PM and a Hard Brexit, the Nationalists will sweep to power across the EU Elections on Friday, the EU is crumbling before the eyes of Junker and Verhofstadt. I look forward to watching both of them go to prison in the near future and the total end of the EU.

And what exactly will they go to prison for ??

Also do you view the rise of nationalism as a positive thing ?

How about the breakup of the EU and the chaos both economic and social that will result.. Do you view that as a positive thing ??

What do you propose replacing the EU with ??

Itssoeasy

Looks like Theresa May May be gone by tonight from what I’m seeing on sky.

who the fug

knipex wrote: »

What do you propose replacing the EU with ??

The EEC seemed to work OK

Beechwoodspark

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Looks like Theresa May May be gone by tonight from what I’m seeing on sky.

Seems to be a lot of speculation in that direction yes.

jm08

who the fug wrote: »

The EEC seemed to work OK

Yes, all 12 member countries (and also prior to the fall of the Berlin Wall and the fragmentation of the Soviet Union and war in the Balkans).

Itssoeasy

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Looks like Theresa May May be gone by tonight from what I’m seeing on sky.

Seems to be a lot of speculation in that direction yes.

I’ve tried to stay away from brexit and all that since they got the extension till October but did see some of Theresa May’s speech from yesterday last night and god love her she seem have cracked under the pressure of the whole thing. I know she said she’d step down earlier than she planned to but it seems as if that speech and her plan seems to have sped up this exit.

ancapailldorcha

who the fug wrote: »

The EEC seemed to work OK

The EEC had the European Comission and the European Parliament. What do people think it was? Unless they simply object to the accessions of the eastern, Baltic states in 2004 & 2007.

mrbrianj

Deleted User wrote: »

He was technically correct as the UK are still in the EU and British Steel failed.
Would probably have failed after Brexit anyway, but could have been bailed out (in defiance of EU rules).

Wasn't there a major problem to do with not being able to trade carbon credits post brexit?

who the fug

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

The EEC had the European Comission and the European Parliament. What do people think it was? Unless they simply object to the accessions of the eastern, Baltic states in 2004 & 2007.

EU was formed on the 1st of November 1993 , what has that got to do with the Baltic States

bilston

Itssoeasy wrote: »

Looks like Theresa May May be gone by tonight from what I’m seeing on sky.

Whatever about tonight, she will hardly last the weekend if the European Elections go as expected.

jm08

Deleted User wrote: »

He was technically correct as the UK are still in the EU and British Steel failed.
Would probably have failed after Brexit anyway, but could have been bailed out (in defiance of EU rules).

Maybe the UK should have supported the EU in raising steel tariffs to prevent China dumping steel in Europe. Tata Steel were furious with Cameron for not supporting this. As far as I can recall, he was trying to do some sort of a trade deal with China.

ancapailldorcha

who the fug wrote: »

EU was formed on the 1st of November 1993 , what has that got to do with the Baltic States

I'm referring to comments I sometimes see wishing for the EU to revert to being the EEC. I'm just wondering if people mean that it was better when it had fewer members.

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

I'm referring to comments I sometimes see wishing for the EU to revert to being the EEC. I'm just wondering if people mean that it was better when it had fewer members.

The EEC was a far looser confederation than the current EU as it's main aim was free trade between members & common agricultural policies.
Harmonisation of products & services to simplify trade was also a major aim, one which met with resistance in the UK and to a lesser degree in Ireland (people still use pounds and ounces instead of grams for starters)
The EU is seen as having become too powerful in the eyes of many European sceptics.

ancapailldorcha

Deleted User wrote: »

The EEC was a far looser confederation than the current EU as it's main aim was free trade between members & common agricultural policies.
The EU is seen as having become too powerful in the eyes of many European sceptics.

It was always supposed to become the EU. Harmonisation and integration were always on the cards to create a proper single market. This was known at the time.

ancapailldorcha

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

It was always supposed to become the EU. Harmonisation and integration were always on the cards to create a proper single market. This was known at the time.

Yes, but it appears that the extent of that integration was too much for some. Now they want out, it would have been better to remain on the inside and roll back the changes a bit.

FrancieBrady

She has left Downing Street and L Kuensberg doesn't think there will be any developments tonight.

Enzokk

I have thought and predicted this a few times but it looks like it is the end for May tonight. That will mean she will be there for another few weeks. Anyone remember a simpler time when the UK though this man is the person to lead?

https://twitter.com/David_Cameron/status/595112367358406656

Christy42

[Deleted User] wrote: »

He was technically correct as the UK are still in the EU and British Steel failed.
Would probably have failed after Brexit anyway, but could have been bailed out (in defiance of EU rules).

Except that a large part of the failure was a decrease in sales to Europe who are anticipating a jump in prices post Brexit and are getting alternate suppliers in early. Certainly there are other issues but they have been bailed out before in the EU and the problems would have been less pronounced.

ancapailldorcha

Whether you agree on the protectionism or not, Cameron and Osborne once vetoed attempts by the EU to protect its steel industry from Chinese competition. The EU was actually trying to protect British steel but the Tories were courting the Chinese at the time so it got vetoed.

CelticRambler

Word on the web is that TM won't step down today because it's the eve of the UK EP election. Surely the consequence of that is that agitated Tory voters will inevitably vote UKIP/BP out of frustration. No-one is going to vote for the Tories tomorrow because she's still in No.10.

So she's effectively hammering nail after nail into the Tory coffin when should could stop the rot simply by announcing her immediate departure. Hardly the behaviour of someone who cares deeply about the Party, which has always been presented as her core belief.

Nody

CelticRambler wrote: »

Word on the web is that TM won't step down today because it's the eve of the UK EP election. Surely the consequence of that is that agitated Tory voters will inevitably vote UKIP/BP out of frustration. No-one is going to vote for the Tories tomorrow because she's still in No.10.

So she's effectively hammering nail after nail into the Tory coffin when should could stop the rot simply by announcing her immediate departure. Hardly the behaviour of someone who cares deeply about the Party, which has always been presented as her core belief.

The committee did not change the rules but TM is under preassure to drop the idea that the parliament could vote on a new Brexit vote or not by the Brexiteers... You could not make this farce up "in the name of democracy we insist that the sovereign parliament is not allowed to vote on something we don't like"

Harry Palmr

Andrea Leadsom resigns which is a big development as a potential party leader.