Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

Lemming

Just voted here in Sheffield; polling station was quiet albeit expected at about 3.30pm. Went earlier than normal in the event of vote registrar irregularities cynical gerrymandering and needing to challenge officialdom on the matter.

Akrasia

funkey_monkey wrote: »

Does the deputy (Liddington?) not take over in the interim period?

Liddington would be an administrator but certainly would not have enough support to lead the tories into an election

MrMusician18

Faugheen wrote: »

Wouldn't it be absolutely brilliant if TM called a general election, get it through Parliament, then resigned a week later, leaving the Tories with no leader and no plan.

It would be the least they all deserve for the absolute shambles they, and I mean all of them, have left Brexit in.

Fixed term parliament act means she hasn't the authority to call an election.

ancapailldorcha

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Fixed term parliament act means she hasn't the authority to call an election.

She does if she can get the Labour party to agree which they probably will. She needs a two-thirds majority if I recall correctly.

Professor Moriarty

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

She does if she can get the Labour party to agree which they probably will. She needs a two-thirds majority if I recall correctly.

She would never do that against the wishes of her party and the very last thing her MPs want right now is a general election. For May, it is party first and foremost.

MrMusician18

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

She does if she can get the Labour party to agree which they probably will. She needs a two-thirds majority if I recall correctly.

There's no way her party would back her into an election. Not after they got routed in the locals and obliterated in the Euros.

ancapailldorcha

That makes sense. No way the Tories would support a GE, even without the impending electoral catastrophe.

LeinsterDub

Faugheen wrote: »

Wouldn't it be absolutely brilliant if TM called a general election, get it through Parliament, then resigned a week later, leaving the Tories with no leader and no plan.

It would be the least they all deserve for the absolute shambles they, and I mean all of them, have left Brexit in.

She can't . Fixed term parliament act. Unless you expect a sizeable segment of the Tories to vote for it too

Inquitus

LeinsterDub wrote: »

She can't . Fixed term parliament act. Unless you expect a sizeable segment of the Tories to vote for it too

Aye given it requires a 2/3 majority, you would need every non Tory + 97 Tories to vote for an early election. The easiest way is a VONC in the Gov followed by a confirmatory VONC 14 days later, which would only require a simple majority on both occasions to send them back to the polls.

oscarBravo

Strazdas wrote: »

Most Eurosceptics on the continent simply want reform of the EU though.

Which is fair enough, but the problem with "we just want the EU to be different" is that everyone wants it to be different in different ways.

The EU is a compromise between 28 sovereign member states representing half a billion people - nationalists, federalists, communists, libertarians, fascists, feminists... Reforming it requires getting the representative governments of all those member states to agree on what reforms are required, and then to ratify those reforms through their respective constitutional mechanisms.

This has happened many times over the history of the Union, most recently in 2007. Lots of people disagreed with the consensus that was arrived at at the time - hence all the "no to Lisbon!" noise - but, in the absence of a different consensus, the current treaties are the consensus that we have.

"The EU needs reform" is the same sort of vacuous argument that has been giving us "let's just renegotiate the withdrawal agreement" over the past half a year. In the same way as some delusional Tories think that just wanting something different in the WA means that you can simply ask for it and get it, many Euroskeptics seem to think that the EU's treaties should simply be modified to suit their personal grievances with how the EU is run.

Sorry, but that's not how it works.

Beechwoodspark

Irish Times reporting May is expected to announce her resignation tomorrow but will stay on until successor chosen

Inquitus

Express reporting of the Dutch result, looks to imply something very different to what happened. Sigh. No further context given especially considering the Nexit parties polled very badly.



https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1130930/european-elections-vote-2019-live-UK-candidates-brexit-party-theresa-may-EU

Water John

Is the Irish Times picking up from the UK papers the possibility of her going, or have they better info?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/23/theresa-may-hold-talks-ministers-attempt-prolong-exit

BonnieSituation

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Irish Times reporting May is expected to announce her resignation tomorrow but will stay on until successor chosen

Water John wrote: »

Is the Irish Times picking up from the UK papers the possibility of her going, or have they better info?
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/23/theresa-may-hold-talks-ministers-attempt-prolong-exit

I got a notification from the IT app.

Nody

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Irish Times reporting May is expected to announce her resignation tomorrow but will stay on until successor chosen

It will be yet another "I'm staying on until Brexit is delivered" I'm guessing; it's not like we've not had this "news" regurgitated over and over again. It appears to be Tories trying to push May by "leaking" "inside information" more than anything. Pretty much the same thing that's been going on during the whole brexit negotiations as well on "EU gets scared and backs down" and "EU gives up this and that to UK's strong negotiation position" etc.

Inquitus wrote: »

Express reporting of the Dutch result, looks to imply something very different to what happened. Sigh. No further context given especially considering the Nexit parties polled very badly.

The Labour party of European Commissioner Frans Timmermans on Thursday won a surprise victory in Dutch voting for the European Parliament, easily beating an upstart right wing populist party, an exit poll showed.

Above is the "shocking results" that were not expected as a reference. I think they simply rely on shock value to get readers in and count on the fact their readers will not read to far into the article since it's a whole lot about "why EU sux" and then out of the blue at the end "Oh and the Brexit counter party failed" basically.

LaChatteGitane

Inquitus wrote: »

Express reporting of the Dutch result, looks to imply something very different to what happened. Sigh. No further context given especially considering the Nexit parties polled very badly.



https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1130930/european-elections-vote-2019-live-UK-candidates-brexit-party-theresa-may-EU

PVDA is a social democrats party-esq and is apparently the winning party according to exit polls. Obviously not all votes have been counted yet.

devnull

I know 4 non UK citizens who were not able to vote in the UK today. Their vote was denied at the polling station despite the fact that they had all required paperwork filled in, present and were registered in time.

It seems there were many EU citizens affected:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/23/eu-citizens-denied-vote-european-election-polling-booths-admin-errors?fbclid=IwAR3mJCfxX6YSR1qdGfiulaue6tpJwJeIbZEH9gWZZinhZqhC7Zq8UVqkfXs

Just when you think it can't become any worse in the UK as well.

Headshot

devnull wrote: »

I know 4 non UK citizens who were not able to vote in the UK today. Their vote was denied at the polling station despite the fact that they had all required paperwork filled in, present and were registered in time.

It seems there were many EU citizens affected:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/23/eu-citizens-denied-vote-european-election-polling-booths-admin-errors?fbclid=IwAR3mJCfxX6YSR1qdGfiulaue6tpJwJeIbZEH9gWZZinhZqhC7Zq8UVqkfXs

Just when you think it can't become any worse in the UK as well.

There doesn't seem to be much uproar on this which is indicative of the UK at the moment.

I know if I couldn't vote I would feel betrayed

robinph

Inquitus wrote: »

Express reporting of the Dutch result, looks to imply something very different to what happened. Sigh. No further context given especially considering the Nexit parties polled very badly.



https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1130930/european-elections-vote-2019-live-UK-candidates-brexit-party-theresa-may-EU

Think that will get someone in the Express up in court as no reporting on exit polls is allowed in the UK until Sunday night.

Sam Russell

devnull wrote: »

I know 4 non UK citizens who were not able to vote in the UK today. Their vote was denied at the polling station despite the fact that they had all required paperwork filled in, present and were registered in time.

It seems there were many EU citizens affected:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/23/eu-citizens-denied-vote-european-election-polling-booths-admin-errors?fbclid=IwAR3mJCfxX6YSR1qdGfiulaue6tpJwJeIbZEH9gWZZinhZqhC7Zq8UVqkfXs

Just when you think it can't become any worse in the UK as well.

Could the EU require the UK to rerun the election if the voter supression of EU voters is significant?

devnull

Headshot wrote: »

There doesn't seem to be much uproar on this which is indicative of the UK at the moment.

I know if I couldn't vote I would feel betrayed

It's an absolute disgrace, there's a lot of very questionable things happening in the UK at the moment but denying people their right to vote is something you don't expect to see in a country such as the UK, but these are not normal times.

The country is tearing itself apart. My job means I travel backwards and forwards between the UK and Ireland quite a fair bit and it just keeps getting worse, I'm just very worried where all of this is going to end up and what it will take for people to wake up and smell the coffee before it's too late.

Water John

It would be fun telling Boris that as his first function as PM. In one area they were calculating it could be 10% of the electorate.

devnull

Water John wrote: »

It would be fun telling Boris that as his first function as PM. In one area they were calculating it could be 10% of the electorate.

Electoral Commission released a statement.

https://twitter.com/ElectoralCommUK/status/1131559651840004096

Basically
- It's not our fault, it's yours
- Go home and vote there instead.

CptMackey

I don't know if people spend much time browsing Twitter today but the more I read about Brexit the more I think that a we need a no deal to happen.

I just cant see any of the problems in the UK being sorted without some serious pain. This will hurt here obviously but the vitriol on Twitter is scary. People calling remain voters traitors.

The country is tearing its self apart. The Brexit party seem to want to negotiate with the EU even.

boggerman1

Have thought for months that the leavers need the harsh dose of reality of a no deal brexit.bit I don't get is that the public are all for no deal.do they think that things will stay the same as now with a no deal.

Itssoeasy

CptMackey wrote: »

I don't know if people spend much time browsing Twitter today but the more I read about Brexit the more I think that a we need a no deal to happen.

I just cant see any of the problems in the UK being sorted without some serious pain. This will hurt here obviously but the vitriol on Twitter is scary. People calling remain voters traitors.

The country is tearing its self apart. The Brexit party seem to want to negotiate with the EU even.

I searched the EU elections hashtag and jaysus help us you're not wrong. As you say the cold hard reality of a no deal brexit might wake some of the deluded people up.

Enzokk

devnull wrote: »

Electoral Commission released a statement.

https://twitter.com/ElectoralCommUK/status/1131559651840004096

Basically
- It's not our fault, it's yours
- Go home and vote there instead.

The EC is saying its not our fault as the Government and Parliament needed to change the rules to make it easier. When May was asked about this on Wednesday she blamed not herself or her Government but she also blamed Parliament, but not for not passing new laws or thinking about it, by not voting for her deal which would have negated the need to ensure EU Citizens could vote.

https://twitter.com/joannaccherry/status/1131185997088268288

The answer to EU Citizens is shocking and the palm off again of a SNP MP to a serious question is just as bad. May must be a terrible person, she seems to have no compassion for anyone other than the Conservative Party. She treats immigrants like scum and I for one will not be sad to see her go.

Let's not forget that since Brexit she has called EU Citizens in the UK as Citizens of nowhere effectively because they may think they are not just their own nationality. Then she called them queue jumpers and now it seems that no effort was made to assist them in voting in this election. What a horrible person she is.

CptMackey wrote: »

I don't know if people spend much time browsing Twitter today but the more I read about Brexit the more I think that a we need a no deal to happen.

I just cant see any of the problems in the UK being sorted without some serious pain. This will hurt here obviously but the vitriol on Twitter is scary. People calling remain voters traitors.

The country is tearing its self apart. The Brexit party seem to want to negotiate with the EU even.

The thing is that the politics of Brexit right now is one of betrayal. Whatever Brexit will be delivered will be blamed on someone else. If there is no Brexit, betrayal of the vote. If May's deal, not really leaving. If no-deal it will be because they weren't given what is theirs to take. I see the problem with this being that Labour has Corbyn in charge who has neither brains or courage to stand against this as his own views on the EU is apparent and he sees a promised land outside the EU.

So even if you think having PM Farage will make him accept responsibility and force those looking for Brexit to open their eyes, it is not going to happen. I think one of the ways to temper this is to have a change of government to a remain party and to not leave the EU. There will be a few years of moaning, but people will move on quickly if they see their lives improving. But with the falling wages and living standards the UK is on a powder keg and there is a match in the vicinity being branded by the likes of Farage and Yaxley Lennon.

dublinman1990

The news of the EU Citizens being denied their vote in the UK Euro Elections is outrageous & extremely damaging for the credibility of the current Tory Government. To be denied your vote with becoming a EU Citizen in another country despite being registered to vote in the first place, despite having all of the relevant documentation filled out & approved by the UK's main electoral authority, is disgraceful. It does deflate peoples confidence in the political system in not being allowed to take part in their only chance of a election vote while living in another EU member state.

The various EU governments own citizens affected by this error in the UK will have a lot of questions to ask to the Tories & the Electoral Commission as to why this process of not allowing their Euro votes through in the UK was allowed. I suspect there will be a lot of anger & outrage coming in from the European Commission & the European Union about this development from the UK too. I mean we don't really know about the number of citizens from various EU countries who are affected by this decision in the UK either. I would presume that Irish citizens were not affected by this error from the UK earlier because they are allowed to vote in the EU Elections in the UK if they have a current UK address.

I've also seen some of the UK papers on the BBC News Channel earlier which said that both the British Home Secretary, Sajid Javid & British Foreign Secretary Jeremy Hunt are to become Brexiteers by staging a leadership challenge in TM's government which is very worrying if it becomes true. At Jeremy Hunt's press conference today at the Foreign Office; he basically denied questions from the media about his potential leadership challenge which will put a significant rift against TM's own position as British PM. He still said that TM will be PM when US President Donald Trump will visit the UK in over a weeks time.

murphaph

I'd be incensed if I was an EU citizen denied my vote in the UK yesterday. I received a letter months ago from my commune here in Germany which I needed to fill out so they could contact the Irish authorities and ensure my vote there was nullified so I could receive a polling card here, which I did weeks ago. I will be able to vote on Sunday (votes are always on Sunday here so the most people can participate) unlike many of my fellow EU citizens in the UK yesterday. It's really disgraceful and will really get the backs up of many MEPs who still need to sign off on any deal the UK might ever make with the EU.

S.M.B.

devnull wrote: »

I know 4 non UK citizens who were not able to vote in the UK today. Their vote was denied at the polling station despite the fact that they had all required paperwork filled in, present and were registered in time.

It seems there were many EU citizens affected:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/23/eu-citizens-denied-vote-european-election-polling-booths-admin-errors?fbclid=IwAR3mJCfxX6YSR1qdGfiulaue6tpJwJeIbZEH9gWZZinhZqhC7Zq8UVqkfXs

Just when you think it can't become any worse in the UK as well.

My wife who's an EU citizen wasn't able to vote. Wasn't mentioned on the BBC News last night but on their dedicated news channel they sprinkled in a lovely comment about how it's possibly down to voter human error. While that may be the case for some instances, plenty of people including my wife, did everything they were asked of on time and still didn't get added in time.