Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

robinph

The amendment to include a peoples vote will now get submitted, which would be a significant change to allow Bercow to permit the vote. Could he refuse the 3rd vote though in the event of the amendment to it not getting passed in the half hour beforehand?

briany

If I were Tusk, I'd be half-tempted to reply with,

" Dear Theresa,

U on drugz? (crying laughing emoji)

Regards"

---

I don't know what May is thinking to ask for an extension for a 3rd MV. The first question the EU has to ask on the matter is how confident is May that the deal would pass, and what happens if it doesn't?

She'd be just as well asking for a mercy extension just to pass some laws that would insulate the UK from the worst effects of a no-deal Brexit.

BonnieSituation

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Here we go...
Request made it seems

Seems it has not and I misread. Carry on.

And we're on.

End of June it seems is the request. But why?

Theresa May asks EU for Brexit extension until June 30th (via @IrishTimes) https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/europe/theresa-may-asks-eu-for-brexit-extension-until-june-30th-1.3832384

josip

At least the EU won't need very long to consider and reply to this request.
Which will give the UK ample time to come to a decision before the 29th :rolleyes:

Hurrache

Reuters saying it's not looking good
https://twitter.com/SamCoatesTimes/status/1108339086174101504

robinph

josip wrote: »

At least the EU won't need very long to consider and reply to this request.
Which will give the UK ample time to come to a decision before the 29th :rolleyes:

Hoping for a tweet from the EU before the end of PMQ's so we can hurry things along quickly.

Seth Brundle

Her word doesn't mean much but:
"The idea that three years after voting to leave the EU, the people of this country should be asked to elect a new set of MEPs is, I believe, unacceptable. It would be a failure to deliver on the referendum decision that this house said it would honour."
"As Prime Minister, I am not prepared to delay Brexit any further than the 30th June"

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1108340552435589121

Enzokk

I don't see anything new today other than the PM doing what is right for her and her party. She doesn't care about the people she is supposed to represent and she doesn't care for those that her decisions will affect either.

If she gets her extension what she has done is to take remain off the table as the UK will not participate in the EU elections and thus it will be her deal or no Brexit. There will be no more extensions after that and she will force MPs to decide on disaster or her deal. That is low in my opinion and making people vote for your deal through fear will not end well. She will be removed soon after that and a new PM will not want her deal around their neck. She is causing more damage than is really necessary because she is stubborn and cares only for her party.

The EU should do the best thing for the UK and the EU and not grant an extension and prepare for no-deal. She will be gone soon after and either new elections or a new referendum will follow. We cannot continue with May in charge as she is hated on both sides in the House of Commons and anything she does will be undermined as soon as she is gone.

I am with Stella Creasy in hitting my head on the table every morning. This is a shambles and I wish we were done with this already. Another extension for even just a few months is just torture and to be honest there are more important things politicians in all countries need to focus on other than the Tory infighting about the EU.

Blowfish

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Her word doesn't mean much but:
"The idea that three years after voting to leave the EU, the people of this country should be asked to elect a new set of MEPs is, I believe, unacceptable. It would be a failure to deliver on the referendum decision that this house said it would honour."
"As Prime Minister, I am not prepared to delay Brexit any further than the 30th June"

So, she says they shouldn't have to elect new MEP's, then asks for an extension which goes beyond the date to where electing MEP's are required?

Seriously, wtf is she thinking?

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta

robinph wrote: »

Hoping for a tweet from the EU before the end of PMQ's so we can hurry things along quickly.

A minister just said on her feet that they EU has said either 28 May or end of 2019 but I can't see where that info is from.

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta

Blowfish wrote: »

So, she says they shouldn't have to elect new MEP's, then asks for an extension which goes beyond the date to where electing MEP's are required?

Seriously, wtf is she thinking?

But we already know they don't have to elect MEPs, as they can send other delegates to fill the seats until they either leave or remain (and hold an election).

An Ciarraioch

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta wrote: »

A minister just said on her feet that they EU has said either 28 May or end of 2019 but I can't see where that info is from.

Reuters tweet on previous page.

Seth Brundle

Seth Brundle wrote: »

Her word doesn't mean much but:
"The idea that three years after voting to leave the EU, the people of this country should be asked to elect a new set of MEPs is, I believe, unacceptable. It would be a failure to deliver on the referendum decision that this house said it would honour."
"As Prime Minister, I am not prepared to delay Brexit any further than the 30th June"

https://twitter.com/BBCPolitics/status/1108340552435589121

What do they think is going to happen between the end of May and the end of June regarding their MEP's?

This is truly one of the more baffling aspects of what's been happening recently

briany

Enzokk wrote: »

The EU should do the best thing for the UK and the EU and not grant an extension and prepare for no-deal. She will be gone soon after and either new elections or a new referendum will follow. We cannot continue with May in charge as she is hated on both sides in the House of Commons and anything she does will be undermined as soon as she is gone.

A new referendum on what?

ShooterSF

micosoft wrote: »

The Irish Government did plan. What they didn't do is fall into the trap of publicly stating they had a plan which the DUP, Brexiteers and UK Government would have immediately landed on the Irish Government as an act of bad faith and that "The Irish Government". The Irish Govt. line has always been we do not want a border and therefore should not publicly plan for it.

In the real word the adage is that those who publicly prepare for brexit will be deliberately mid represented by the Brexit Ultra's.

Peregrinus wrote: »

Micosoft had it. The Irish government had a plan; it would just have been a very bad idea to say so publicly, since it would mean Ireland did not believe UK assurances that, even in in a no-deal situation, it would honour its no-hard-border commitment. Ireland in fact didn't believe those assurances, but it would have been a very bad idea to say so openly, since it would inflame things and make it easier for the UK to walk away from its assurances, and how would this be of any possible advantage to Ireland?

If that's the case we're all ok with our government apparently telling it's constituents barefaced lies then? To me that's what leads to the political landscape we have where people lose faith in our politicians. I'm not ok with being lied to because the government want to play games. Come out and say that you have no desire for a hard border but that one can't be completely ruled out in these bizarre circumstances and as rational adults we need to prepare for all outcomes. This is probably getting off topic though. Sorry.

RobertKK

The best option for the EU may be to cut the UK loose next week, let the crisis in the UK worsen to a point they have to come back to the EU with a deal done that is acceptable to the EU, have the UK get some sense which will be needed to solve the current impasse.

The EU can't allow this current drawn out crisis to simply continue by kicking a rusty can down the road.
Politics in the UK is broken to an extent that the EU needs to get rid of this toxic member of the EU.
Let the No deal "We love WTO" people own this. They have a deal that goes with the UK red lines and they refused to accept it. Nothing more the EU can do if the UK wants to act retarded.

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta

RobertKK wrote: »

The best option for the EU may be to cut the UK loose next week, let the crisis in the UK worsen to a point they have to come back to the EU with a deal done that is acceptable to the EU, have the UK get some sense which will be needed to solve the current impasse.

The EU can't allow this current drawn out crisis to simply continue by kicking a rusty can down the road.
Politics in the UK is broken to an extent that the EU needs to get rid of this toxic member of the EU.
Let the No deal "We love WTO" people own this. They have a deal that goes with the UK red lines and they refused to accept it. Nothing more the EU can do if the UK wants to act retarded.

The problem with this is that no deal means no transition period, so the UK can't really come back after no deal with a deal (if that makes sense).

Dyr

To Paraphrase St Paul: “If your enemy is hungry, give him food to eat; if he is thirsty, give him water to drink. he wants a no deal brexit let him crash out, In doing this, you will heap burning coals on his head"


Give them what they want, refuse an extension and let them burn. Any other option will give them an excuse for why it all went pear shaped

They still have to negotiate the future relationship so they may do that while their economy is a the bottom of a cliff and the brexiteers are being held accountable for their promises.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

What do they think is going to happen between the end of May and the end of June regarding their MEP's?

This is truly one of the more baffling aspects of what's been happening recently

A general election or a new Conservative leader I guess.

Enzokk

briany wrote: »

A new referendum on what?

Whether to rejoin the EU. This will not happen immediately though, the most likely action is a new general election and then a few years of stumbling around before they get to that realisation.

Leroy42

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta wrote: »

But we already know they don't have to elect MEPs, as they can send other delegates to fill the seats until they either leave or remain (and hold an election).

What, so TM could just select anyone she wants?

Hardly taking back control and dealing with the anti-democratic EU now is it?

Could she send over whomever she likes, Olly Robbins for Eg?

Where is the basis for this ability for countries to simply ignore the democratic requirements?

Infini

Blowfish wrote: »

So, she says they shouldn't have to elect new MEP's, then asks for an extension which goes beyond the date to where electing MEP's are required?

Seriously, wtf is she thinking?

She's not thinking she's being arrogant and thick about things. EU should just pull the rug from under her feet: Leave or Stay. Pick your choice and live with it. No more games. They're not interested in a deal only bluster and pig ignorant arrogance and they wont listen to reason unless its under the threat of economic meltdown.

Seth Brundle

Blowfish wrote: »

So, she says they shouldn't have to elect new MEP's, then asks for an extension which goes beyond the date to where electing MEP's are required?

Seriously, wtf is she thinking?

Deleted User wrote: »

What do they think is going to happen between the end of May and the end of June regarding their MEP's?

This is truly one of the more baffling aspects of what's been happening recently

Just for clarification: the European Parliament elections will be held between 23 and 26 May 2019 and the newly elected MEPs will take their seats on 1 July 2019.
However, the allocation or redistribution of the UKs existing seats will add complications to the elections as they may decide to revoke Art 50 or could decide to crash out.

Could they refuse an extension, which would remove the UK from membership on Mar 29th, and we are in effect, in the position of a no deal exit.
But reach out an offer an optional re-entry (on EU terms) back into the fold, if it all goes t*ts up? And limit that option to two years?

In the absence of a referendum on deal/remain I can see that passing HOC with the usual hardliners voting against it.

ShooterSF

Surely the EU needs to come back with May 22nd or agree that you can't revoke article 50 past that date if you want an extension till the end of June due to not electing MEPs. She might even be able to pass a meaningful vote then in June

Blowfish

Schnitzler Hiyori Geta wrote: »

But we already know they don't have to elect MEPs, as they can send other delegates to fill the seats until they either leave or remain (and hold an election).

My understanding is that there's legislation around appointing MEP's and it must be through an elected PR process.

That's aside from the obvious in that some of their seats have been 'handed out' to other countries, Ireland are gaining 2. What's supposed to happen there? Do they also expect the EU to be happy with them 'wasting' the seats by them being appointed/elected but not actually being around long enough for the first euro parliament sitting?

[edit] Partially beaten to it, thread moves fast.

Laois_Man

I'm flabbergasted!

This has to be rejected and there's no need to delay the rejection of it. Let her come to the summit and make a fool of herself tomorrow, then reject the request within an hour. It's out of the question that this request can be accommodated. No EU elections in the UK on May 23rd and then they possibly revoke article 50 on June 23rd = absolute chaos in the EU.

It's out of the question!

Enzokk

PMQs is infuriating. May has stated a few times that parliament had the chance to take control of the process but they voted against it. I am happy to be corrected but didn't she whip against those motions like the Benn amendment that would have set aside time for MPs to debate those options?

It takes some courage to claim the house had a chance to do something when you, with your majority, stopped that very thing from happening. She is a liar and is not to be trusted.

Laois_Man

ShooterSF wrote: »

Surely the EU needs to come back with May 22nd or agree that you can't revoke article 50 past that date if you want an extension till the end of June due to not electing MEPs. She might even be able to pass a meaningful vote then in June

May 22nd is no good either.
The EU could effectively be in a position where the UK revokes article 50 at 10:30pm on May 22nd with them having no elections the next day and every other EU country running elections where the allocation of seats has just become incorrect.

Let them crash out next week.

I am worried about our farmers and fishermen in particular in such an eventuality but there's no other way!

Infini

Deleted User wrote: »

Could they refuse an extension, which would remove the UK from membership on Mar 29th, and we are in effect, in the position of a no deal exit.
But reach out an offer an optional re-entry (on EU terms) back into the fold, if it all goes t*ts up? And limit that option to two years?

In the absence of a referendum on deal/remain I can see that passing HOC with the usual hardliners voting against it.

It's likely that they'd let Britain rejoin down the line once it get's its head out of its arse and get's its house in order. Conservatives and May need to go though they're dangerously incompetent and irredemably arrogant. Britain needs a significant amount of time to get its house in order and likely there wont be any point in rejoining before this happens. Likely though Scotland will go independent and NI will reunify with the south during that time though.

I honestly think the EU should just reject the application for an extention this week so as to give the UK enough time to seriously decide what it wants: In or Out. Make your choice but no more delaying or games. Decide. Because all they'll do is stall, delay and evade any decision unless they're forced to choose to be honest.