Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

MikeSoys

if there is a no-deal:
a portion of irish beef farmers will be decimated where if they were able to get 3.85/kg this will be around 3.11/kg (under WTO rules) which will be close to the purchase cost excluding winter feeding etc.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/temporary-rates-of-customs-duty-on-imports-after-eu-exit/mfn-and-tariff-quota-rates-of-customs-duty-on-imports-if-the-uk-leaves-the-eu-with-no-deal#bovine-meat-beef

FrancieBrady

Headshot wrote: »

Sigh that Nolan show was crap, barely any time to Brexit

Nelson McCausland blaming everybody else for the mess.

devnull

I don't think I can hold back on my views on TM anymore, it's ridiculous now, a right farce.

There's a very good article from Lewis Goodall of Sky News here
https://news.sky.com/story/the-pms-conduct-puts-parliaments-long-term-vitality-in-peril-11671146

It says what we already know really, that she is playing very dangerous games with the future of the United Kingdom. It's one of several articles where the media are really starting to become very critical of her, even more than in the past and it feels like tonight was the night when her incompetence went to another level.

It feels profoundly like she is entering the last chance saloon now. We've said that time and time before but what she has done was irresponsible and shows signs of delusions and being wrapped up in her own bubble and she has completely lost touch with reality and is not fit to stay in her position in my opinion. She acts like she is a leader of a majority government and can influence them but she has no power at all.

That being said I don't see what her going at this stage will do other than making a No Deal Brexit more likely. She is totally unfit for office now, she's completely lost situational awareness, she frequently breaks her word, she doesn't want to bide by the rules of commons procedures, she refuses to listen to anyone, she respects nobody and carries on dictating how it will be regardless of how Parliament votes or what they say.

She's completely deranged at this point and is a danger to the country that she is the leader of. Her statements put the democratic Parliament of the UK in danger, her aggression towards MPs puts MPs, apparently some of which who have been given death threats, in danger, her high stake irresponsible games puts the livelihoods of millions in danger. Yet she still carries on regardless. She is callous and wilfully derliciting her duties as PM.

There's no doubt she'll go down as the worst Prime Minister the UK has ever had to date, when the dust settle, but the damage that she has done to a country which I called home in the past, could last for decades and it will all be her fault and her legacy will be damage to peoples futures, democracy and the political system as a whole.

Sadly, most of the above could have been a moot point if 'Her Majesty's Opposition' bothered to show up, instead they have sat by and allowed it to happen, whilst conducting internal fights playing childish games and party politics whilst also, not giving two hoots about the national interest.

Water John

Peston also had Farage on. Peston got very defensive when another panelist later attacked Farage and what he stood for.

Larbre34

Lads, passing references to the British border in Ireland in UK media are merely reflective of the typical knowledge and priority given to that topic by voters in mainland Britain.

Akrasia

Headshot wrote: »

But that's the BBC these days, it's fallen so much

They also had a whiteboard with all the potential outcomes but not a single mention of withdrawing A50 even though its one of only 3 potential outcomes (with or without a 2nd referendum)

MikeSoys

how will the E.U help Ireland in a no-deal? Will they (for say 2year period) pick up the tab for typical trades with uk ie agriculture?

The Rape of Lucretia

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

More storms in a teacup , a week is long time in politics, and there's just over a week to go.


"Theresa May is facing a furious backlash from her own backbenchers and calls for her resignation after she blamed squabbling MPs for delaying Brexit"

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/20/acting-like-trump-theresa-may-sparks-mps-brexit-fury

Its a bit rum, MPs getting uppity because she call them out for delaying the Brexit - many of them are very vocal and personal in their criticising of her to any media outlet that will listen to them. Sauce for the goose etc.

boggerman1

Is there a speech in history that has ever backfired as badly as that from the M bot tonight.time for the EU to say enough is enough and leave on Friday week

Harry Palmr

Shelga wrote: »

Kirsty Wark: "What will happen with the border in Ireland?"

Suzanne Evans: "Nothing, that's a red herring, we will just carry on as we are" *shrugs*

Kirsty Wark: moves on to next item

Staggeringly awful 'journalism' from the BBC, as usual. Lather rinse repeat.

Not so much awful journalism as clever politicing - anyone who works as an advisor will tell the politician to lob the grenade or posit the most contentious opinion right at the end - live media has a fantastically tight schedule so a host or another guest will simply not have the chance to challenge - they have to go to a break, the next item on a pre-set running order (each segment of which will have been timed during the production meeting) or end the programme (and woe betide anyone who tries to let the programme run over).

Hurrache

Andrew Pierce still ****ing on that the EU are terrible horrible people making it difficult for the UK during negotiations on the Sky News paper review.

strawdog

Sparko wrote: »

I'm honestly amazed she came out and gave that speech, really can't see how she thought it was a good idea. Her advisers are sabotaging her.

Can't really say I'm surprised. She seems, against all evidence, to fancy herself as a political gambler. Her only win was when she got PM by default, but that was after backing the wrong horse. She then gambled on a snap election to strengthen her hand and made herself weak and dependent on DUP. She gambled on a deal based on those hard red lines with no consensus on the basis it would be grudgingly passed as the only non-catastrophic option for Brexit. And now she's gambling on turning the public anger/disaffection/boredom yada yada against MPs to pressure them to pass it after two heavy losses. Like the worst kind of gambler, she is in a deep hole and trying to gamble her way out of it.

MikeSoys

.sky observer.. implying DUP will accept T May deal (as dup have had lenghty meeting with treasury) ... imigine with 1B could do for n ireland ðŸ˜

Eod100

MikeSoys wrote: »

.sky observer.. implying DUP will accept T May deal (as dup have had lenghty meeting with treasury) ... imigine with 1B could do for n ireland ðŸ˜

Why are DUP so important when May can't get her own party on side? Not like ERG will automatically do what DUP do..

Joe_ Public

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Not so much awful journalism as clever politicing - anyone who works as an advisor will tell the politician to lob the grenade or posit the most contentious opinion right at the end - live media has a fantastically tight schedule so a host or another guest will simply not have the chance to challenge - they have to go to a break, the next item on a pre-set running order (each segment of which will have been timed during the production meeting) or end the programme (and woe betide anyone who tries to let the programme run over).

Watching it, it felt in the territory of being so monumentally dumb that it throws you, you don’t know what to say to it so merciful thing is to move on. Evans is so clueless she had no business being there in the first place. I know they’re in short supply but they could find leavers outside parliament who actually have a coherent thought in their head.

Itssoeasy

boggerman1 wrote: »

Is there a speech in history that has ever backfired as badly as that from the M bot tonight.time for the EU to say enough is enough and leave on Friday week

Neville chamberlain after the Munich conference ?

bobmalooka

MikeSoys wrote: »

.sky observer.. implying DUP will accept T May deal (as dup have had lenghty meeting with treasury) ... imigine with 1B could do for n ireland ðŸ˜

Answer: The biggest bonfire you’ve ever seen

I think DUP will hold their position after seeing the backlash against May, if history tells us something (GFA) it’s that they’ll only climb on board when they know it’s a sure thing

Joe_ Public

Eod100 wrote: »

Why are DUP so important when May can't get her own party on side? Not like ERG will automatically do what DUP do..

Fair question which i couldn’t answer. The whole dynamic between the erg and dup is one that mystifies me. Maybe someone can explain it, i certainly can’t.

Hurrache

Eod100 wrote: »

Why are DUP so important when May can't get her own party on side? Not like ERG will automatically do what DUP do..

The odd thing is that they have been taking their cue from the DUP, even to the point of saying so.

Anteayer

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Fair question which i couldn’t answer. The whole dynamic between the erg and dup is one that mystifies me. Maybe someone can explain it, i certainly can’t.

They both feed off a notion of British supremacy and exceptionalism. They're coming from different places but they basically feed into eachother's narratives and tend to fire each other up.

You'll find English nationalists and right wingers who see the NI peace process as appeasing the IRA or ceding territory too. They're unlikely to be very positive about the GFA either.

Eod100

Hurrache wrote: »

The odd thing is that they have been taking their cue from the DUP, even to the point of saying so.

Yeah think that's a bit of a flag of convenience to deflect flack from them. Basically saying unless DUP are happy, motions won't go through even if the ERG is on side. They're presenting it as this principled stance to back DUP but they have their own motives.

recedite

MrMusician18 wrote: »

There is no plans to change the rules of parliament or override him. The idea is that the European Council will endorse the "Strasbourg Agreement" tomorrow, which will constitute a change in the proposition, therefore there will be no impediment to bringing the bill before parliament again. Now this excuse is paper thin and is really only cover for Bercow, who will be under enormous pressure to allow the vote.

The vote will definitely go ahead if there is a feeling that it will be close.

They already voted on the "Strasbourg Agreement".
If they vote on it again, Bercow will be doing a u-turn, which is quite possible (because he is an idiot).

BonnieSituation

recedite wrote: »

They already voted on the "Strasbourg Agreement".
If they vote on it again, Bercow will be doing a u-turn, which is quite possible (because he is an idiot).

Do tell us why he is an idiot?

Your contributions have been illuminating so far so this should be interesting.

josip

recedite wrote: »

...
If they vote on it again, Bercow will be doing a u-turn, which is quite possible (because he is an idiot).

If that is the case, then would that there were more idiots like him in the HOC asylum.

Joe_ Public

Eod100 wrote: »

Yeah think that's a bit of a flag of convenience to deflect flack from them. Basically saying unless DUP are happy, motions won't go through even if the ERG is on side. They're presenting it as this principled stance to back DUP but they have their own motives.

Yeah that does make some sense alright. The only thing I’d be certain about is that when JRM talks about the dup it’s very likely not out of any empathetic loyalty he feels for them or even any concern for the backstop. Deeper motives underlying all of it.

recedite

He wastes parliamentary time rambling on about boring personal anecdotes, he makes contradictory rulings (hence he will likely have to make a U-turn), he walks to HoC dressed like an old hobo, and worst of all he is blatantly a partisan Remainer while sitting in the office of one who should be impeccably neutral.

Joe_ Public

recedite wrote: »

He wastes parliamentary time rambling on about boring personal anecdotes, he makes contradictory rulings (hence he will likely have to make a U-turn), he walks to HoC dressed like an old hobo, and worst of all he is blatantly a partisan Remainer while sitting in the office of one who should be impeccably neutral.

No u turns will have to be made.

Imreoir2

recedite wrote: »

He wastes parliamentary time rambling on about boring personal anecdotes, he makes contradictory rulings (hence he will likely have to make a U-turn), he walks to HoC dressed like an old hobo, and worst of all he is blatantly a partisan Remainer while sitting in the office of one who should be impeccably neutral.

Perhaps you can show us where he has made an error in judgement on the issue of the permisibility of holding multiple votes on the same motion.

WhiteMan32

Headshot wrote: »

Sigh that Nolan show was crap, barely any time to Brexit

BBC1 Question Time this Thursday evening comes from Belfast!

Headshot

WhiteMan32 wrote: »

BBC1 Question Time this Thursday evening comes from Belfast!

That should be fascinating

The panel will be Tobias Ellwood MP, Nick Thomas-Symonds MP, Jeffrey Donaldson MP, John O’Dowd MLA and Polly MacKenzie.