Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

WomanSkirtFan8

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

April 10th, anniversary of the sinking of RMS Titanic
April 12th, anniversary of the sinking of HMG Brexit

Actually the Titanic sank on April 15th 1912 but yeah the irony is indane.

eire4

boggerman1 wrote: »

Dup going to vote no again.and in other breaking news a bear took a pooh in the woods.

I just do not see them getting the votes to overturn a 149 vote deficit from the last vote. As much as I do not want to see a no deal exit for them I am glad the EU made the extension be such a short one as they simply have not and will not get their act together. We cannot have this just drag on and on.

seamus

Inquitus wrote: »

DUP not playing ball, full statement at the bottom of quoted section.

The question now is, after deriding her for kicking the can two weeks down the road, will they support the extension agreement in the HoC?

Joe_ Public

That’s fine for the dup but if they’re not going to get their obviously preferred option of a no deal, where does that leave them going forward? If parliament takes over from next week what cards have they left to play?

ToBeFrank123

The DUP have May over a barrel as the Conservatives need them to stay in power.

I think a Hard Brexit is inevitable with the DUP holding the balance of power.

If NI voters continue to vote for the DUP after this, there is something seriously wrong with them. Ditto those who continue to vote for Rees-Mogg and the ERG.

Northern Ireland voters are so badly represented by their politicians. In fact they aren't represented at all. Taxation without representation.

Shelga

Skelet0n wrote: »

The guardian did a piece from Wigan, the needle has barely moved. The disabled man living on £10 a month who can’t get a job and would still vote leave at 7:00 is particularly sad.
https://youtu.be/y4uIC0AwD68

Yeah, even as I was typing it I knew that a 55% result for Remain is wishful thinking. The only way it’s going to happen is if it’s May’s deal vs Remain as the only two options.

Why, why are they doing this to themselves and to us. Why.

Sue de Nimes

fash wrote: »

the most recent example of "when found out, keep lying anyway" (and towards the most blatant end) being Daniel " (fake) double first" Hannan's history of Ireland:
https://twitter.com/DanielJHannan/status/1107976482675150848

(Inter alia, Oxford doesn't issue double firsts)

The term "double first" is informally used by Oxford graduates. The usage is widespread enough for Wikipedia to include it

"A "double first" at Oxford usually informally refers to first-class honours in both components of an undergraduate degree, i.e. Moderations/Prelims and the Final Honour School, or in both the bachelor's and master's components of an integrated master's degree."

Rather than Hannan being wrong, he was simply using an informal term that is widely used.

Roanmore

Inquitus wrote: »

Boards Friendly link below That ages spectacularly badly, its comical in retrospect, in some ways I think it's only in the past few weeks that the blinkers have come off, and the reality is dawning.

https://twitter.com/PropertySpot/status/1108155476011900928

Three years later and Peter Casey was on TV3 last night basically saying the same thing and neither of the 2 hosts or the other 4 panel members challenged him.

Junkyard Tom

One of the major mistakes was treating such a narrow win like a football match. 'We won, you lost, get over it'. That's majoritarian absolutism not democracy. Democracy would consider the views of those who 'lost' especially when it was so close.

Nobody in Ireland thinks that a majority vote for a United Ireland would mean that the views of Unionists could be disregarded - quite the opposite - they'd have to be incorporated into all future decisions.

Roanmore

Eod100 wrote: »

There's an irony in him being so anti-EU when it was the only place he could be elected to in his political career..

Would Farage get elected now though.

He wasn't directly elected technically as England use a list system for the Euro elections. UKIP got the biggest vote last time out but he is no longer a member and he's having trouble getting the Brexit Party off the ground.

gooch2k9

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The DUP have May over a barrel as the Conservatives need them to stay in power.

I think a Hard Brexit is inevitable with the DUP holding the balance of power.

If NI voters continue to vote for the DUP after this, there is something seriously wrong with them. Ditto those who continue to vote for Rees-Mogg and the ERG.

Northern Ireland voters are so badly represented by their politicians. In fact they aren't represented at all. Taxation without representation.

Ni voters will continue to vote as they do. Five years living here has shown that no matter how reasonable a person may be day to day once politics comes into question that all goes out the door. Until the "constitutional question" is answered for good politics will remain as is in NI.

judeboy101

Joe_ Public wrote: »

That’s fine for the dup but if they’re not going to get their obviously preferred option of a no deal, where does that leave them going forward? If parliament takes over from next week what cards have they left to play?

Their deal is with tories, not TM. They'll tell tories get rid or we walk. DUP still have their wee bit of the Empire north of the border and have a veto over all changes devolved. They will all be reelected next time.

Zubeneschamali

Shelga wrote: »

I know it’s a very complex issue and each country’s requirements and desires will differ, but those countries obviously think full EU membership isn’t the way to go either.

The reasons are the same as the real reasons for Brexit: sovereignty, control, independence.

If the Brexiteers had stuck to the reasons the Swiss and Norwegians had for stalling their membership, I would say it was silly but not crazy.

But they persist in talking nonsense about being better off outside the EU, and also the anti immigrant stuff, meaning they must leave the single market. Mad. They will never, ever get back the absolute fortune this will cost them.

Hurrache

seamus wrote: »

The question now is, after deriding her for kicking the can two weeks down the road, will they support the extension agreement in the HoC?

I don't think it needs support, it'll be an executive decision via a statutory instrument.

Frank Bullitt

https://twitter.com/SkyNewsBreak/status/1109122261242519553

Well, thats that so.

Shelga

Why does no one ever ask the DUP- "ok, you advocated a Leave vote, what is your solution?" They get away with sniping from the sidelines, day after day after day. I'm so sick of listening to them.

They are just as culpable for this mess as they like to say May and her government are, and they need to be treated as such by the media.

Amirani

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

If NI voters continue to vote for the DUP after this, there is something seriously wrong with them. Ditto those who continue to vote for Rees-Mogg and the ERG.

Northern Ireland voters are so badly represented by their politicians. In fact they aren't represented at all. Taxation without representation.

Agreed. But same goes for those who vote for Sinn Fein in British Parliamentary Elections. Essentially spoiling your vote.

If the people of Northern Ireland had any cop on after this debacle they'd move away from voting for these 2 basket cases.

ancapailldorcha

Low quality post deleted.

Frank Bullitt

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1109123555474714624

The importance of the peace process for future trade deals.

VinLieger

Gintonious wrote: »

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1109123555474714624

The importance of the peace process for future trade deals.

Slightly ironic considering its very likely the terms of a US trade deal and having a fully open border are incompatible due to what the US will demand from the UK

Dubh Geannain

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

The DUP have May over a barrel as the Conservatives need them to stay in power.

I think a Hard Brexit is inevitable with the DUP holding the balance of power.

If NI voters continue to vote for the DUP after this, there is something seriously wrong with them. Ditto those who continue to vote for Rees-Mogg and the ERG.

Northern Ireland voters are so badly represented by their politicians. In fact they aren't represented at all. Taxation without representation.

It's about being married to Patriotism or Unionism over logic or economic arguments. There's nothing wrong with them. They are what they are. Most people are victims of one ideology or another; be it religious, vegan etc.

Look at the polls. There's still a large contingent want to crash out without a deal.

BobbyBobberson

I really do think, and there are a lot of them, the biggest hypocrisy amongst the Brexiteers is that according to them "You cannot ignore the vote of 17.4 million people" but in the same breath we can ignore that of 16.1 million.

Also whatever about voting Leave and assuming it would be fine, the amount of people that have no idea what No Deal actually entails is scary. I have never witnessed such an flat out shunning of fact. Its scary.

devnull

As absurd as it might sound, a no confidence motion backed by the DUP that results to the ousting of May is the worst thing that can happen now because the person that will replace her is most likely going to be a hard Brexiteer who will go for No Deal without any doubt as they'll win against the remainer.

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1109120930289205248

If that is the case and it works out like that, then it may be beneficial for Labour MPs to vote confidence in the government in order to prevent no deal from happening. However you can bet your life that the likes of Jeremy Corbyn won't figure out that voting no confidence may be a trap to make no deal more likely, since he'll be more focused on an election.

jochenstacker

Dubh Geannain wrote: »

It's about being married to Patriotism or Unionism over logic or economic arguments. There's nothing wrong with them. They are what they are. Most people are victims of one ideology or another; be it religious, vegan etc.

Look at the polls. There's still a large contingent want to crash out without a deal.

I think that people who will choose an ideology over sense, reason and evidence do have something inherently wrong with them. If we could eliminate this unfortunate human trend, earth would be a much better place.

Seth Brundle

seamus wrote: »

The question now is, after deriding her for kicking the can two weeks down the road, will they support the extension agreement in the HoC?

I reckon they will be content with the crash out so don't care if there's an extension or not as long as they get the exit. A crash out brings them (in their funny little world) closer to the UK and further from the Irish Republic.

ToBeFrank123 wrote: »

If NI voters continue to vote for the DUP after this, there is something seriously wrong with them. Ditto those who continue to vote for Rees-Mogg and the ERG.

Northern Ireland voters are so badly represented by their politicians. In fact they aren't represented at all. Taxation without representation.

DUP voters vote for the DUP because they have similar narrow minded beliefs. I don't think this portion of the electorate will be swayed too much.
As for the representation, definitley not within Westminster. In theory, they should be represented more accurately within Stormont but neither side seem prepared to sit with the other unconditionally.

ToBeFrank123

Amirani wrote: »

Agreed. But same goes for those who vote for Sinn Fein in British Parliamentary Elections. Essentially spoiling your vote.

If the people of Northern Ireland had any cop on after this debacle they'd move away from voting for these 2 basket cases.

Both parties are essentially abstentionist, and sit on the sidelines parties, but also very reactionary. They wait for someone to do something and react virulently against it, particularly the DUP. And this is probably why they are loved by their voters, but surely even they can see through them at this stage.

ToBeFrank123

Dubh Geannain wrote: »

It's about being married to Patriotism or Unionism over logic or economic arguments. There's nothing wrong with them. They are what they are. Most people are victims of one ideology or another; be it religious, vegan etc.

Look at the polls. There's still a large contingent want to crash out without a deal.

But how many DUP supporters work in places like Bombardier for example?

And how many depend on cross border trade with the south?

How great will it be to be closer to the union, but unemployed with no prospects for you or your children?

Anteayer

To be quite honest when you're dealing with a party like the DUP or some of the aspects of UKIP and the ERG, you might as well forget trying to argue logic and economics. That isn't what their arguments are based on.

It's purely an emotional feeling and identity politics. Many of them would seemingly rather destroy the economy than compromise on any of those.

weemcd

jochenstacker wrote: »

I think that people who will choose an ideology over sense, reason and evidence do have something inherently wrong with them. If we could eliminate this unfortunate human trend, earth would be a much better place.

IMO, this is the most worrying trend worldwide at the moment. People have absolutely no ability for critical thought, they simply have sides or teams, whatever you want to call it and blindly follow a pre-set ideology. And it's getting worse, more entrenched.

Anteayer

weemcd wrote: »

IMO, this is the most worrying trend worldwide at the moment. People have absolutely no ability for critical thought, they simply have sides or teams, whatever you want to call it and blindly follow a pre-set ideology. And it's getting worse, more entrenched.

You've also got a generation of politicians in the UK and US who've discovered that if you just throw any old nonsense into the ether that it will probably go unchallenged or enough people will believe it to get what you want anyway. If anyone criticises you just shout fake news or project fear. Or, you just say [opinion goes here] FACT! and somehow that also works.