Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

Water John

Hopefully the latest visit to her compatriots in Brussels has been an eye opener for her.

Spanish Eyes

dresden8 wrote: »

It has an air of an Enabling Act about it all right.

Maybe that was the plan all along by the nameless faceless suits.

Sorry it is Friday, time for a large drink now. I might see things a bit clearer after that. :P But there will still be no sense made of this debacle will there?

cml387

MrMusician18 wrote: »

When I had a look at it, I thought it sounded a lot like preparation for war.
Now I'm not suggesting that at all, but it seems they expect that this event could seemingly do war like damage to their economy.

Oftentimes when something historic is happening it's not obvious to those living through it and only with time do we recognise the significance of events. Not with this, we are truly witnessing something that historians will ponder over for years.

I'm of an age when I remember various British government crises.
During the 1970's it was a genuinely held fear by many senior civil servants, and senior Bank Of England officials, that a collapse of the economy and the failure civil power was only weeks away, with an inflation rate of over 20% and a hideous government deficit.
Mainly it was solved by strong leadership by some key figures who were, in the that cliched term, statesmen, the likes of Dennis Healy and Jim Callaghan.

What I don't remember ever happening is the complete failure of the party in power to maintain any semblance of control over itself.
There is a giant black hole at the centre of government in the UK. Ministers are now making up policy on the hoof and the prime minister doesn't even have the support of the chief whip.

Enzokk

Inquitus wrote: »

May's letter to MP's of this evening, worth a read, won't bother with MV3 if it has no chance of passing:

https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1109168282249109504

No apology for her speech on Wednesday, only an acknowledgement that she never intended to make their jobs more difficult. So she still blames them for the inaction though.

We will have interviews with May in a few years time where she steadfastly says into a camera that her deal would have worked had MPs just voted for it and will deny any personal responsibility for the chaos caused. You will then feel sorry for her that she is that delusional and obviously not in touch with reality.

Joe_ Public

Enzokk wrote: »

No apology for her speech on Wednesday, only an acknowledgement that she never intended to make their jobs more difficult. So she still blames them for the inaction though.

We will have interviews with May in a few years time where she steadfastly says into a camera that her deal would have worked had MPs just voted for it and will deny any personal responsibility for the chaos caused. You will then feel sorry for her that she is that delusional and obviously not in touch with reality.

There was a reporter on the bbc this morning saying that apparently TM's spin doctors and speech writers were strutting around the commons bars on wednesday night, proud as peacocks, thinking they'd just pulled off a savvy and ingenious political stunt. The mind boggles as to what is going on inside these peoples heads. Delusional hardly beings to cover it.

Inquitus

Joe_ Public wrote: »

There was a reporter on the bbc this morning saying that apparently TM's spin doctors and speech writers were strutting around the commons bars on wednesday night, proud as peacocks, thinking they'd just pulled off a savvy and ingenious political stunt. The mind boggles as to what is going on inside these peoples heads. Delusional hardly beings to cover it.

Aye its crazy, most people on here immediately called it out as a dreadful speech, that was tone deaf, and likely to have repercussions, and we are just Irish internet folks with an interest in politics, not supposed experts with our finger on the pulse of the nation and its MPs!

cml387

Inquitus wrote: »

Aye its crazy, most people on here immediately called it out as a dreadful speech, that was tone deaf, and likely to have repercussions, and we are just Irish internet folks with an interest in politics, not supposed experts with our finger on the pulse of the nation and its MPs!

I can also imagine the atmosphere in No 10 this evening, with those spin doctors being assailed by all sides other spin doctors who argued passionately against the speech and are now loudly proclaiming "I told you so" at the top of their voices, adding to the general sense of chaos.

The absence of Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill from Teresa May's entourage is a major factor in her meltdown I think.They were purged in the aftermath of the election.

Spanish Eyes

Inquitus wrote: »

May's letter to MP's of this evening, worth a read, won't bother with MV3 if it has no chance of passing:

https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1109168282249109504

So there we are now. It was inevitable once DUP said no.

But Parliament now must take control surely since NO DEAL has been rejected by them, albeit in a non binding vote, but still.

Joe_ Public

cml387 wrote: »

I can also imagine the atmosphere in No 10 this evening, with those spin doctors being assailed by all sides other spin doctors who argued passionately against the speech and are now loudly proclaiming "I told you so" at the top of their voices, adding to the general sense of chaos.

The absence of Nick Timothy and Fiona Hill from Teresa May's entourage is a major factor in her meltdown I think.They were purged in the aftermath of the election.

They might have helped in some areas but Timothy and Hill seemed toxic, Hill was directly responsible for the "trousergate" debacle, maybe not a huge thing in the overall scheme of things, but it showed her chronic inability to grasp the key details. My overriding impression is that May is unmanageable, unable to take counsel and stubbornly determined not to accept responsibility for her most egregious of cock-ups. Finding it hard to see very many redeeming qualities in her, doesn't even seem to be a very nice person when it comes down to it by most accounts.

Enzokk

Joe_ Public wrote: »

There was a reporter on the bbc this morning saying that apparently TM's spin doctors and speech writers were strutting around the commons bars on wednesday night, proud as peacocks, thinking they'd just pulled off a savvy and ingenious political stunt. The mind boggles as to what is going on inside these peoples heads. Delusional hardly beings to cover it.

Inquitus wrote: »

Aye its crazy, most people on here immediately called it out as a dreadful speech, that was tone deaf, and likely to have repercussions, and we are just Irish internet folks with an interest in politics, not supposed experts with our finger on the pulse of the nation and its MPs!

It is easy pickings to show her shortcomings as there are many and they are easy to spot. If you look at her team that she relies on she is very much like Thatcher was, while a woman in the top job she is not a beacon for woman's empowerment in the workplace. Of the 15 or so places in her team only 3 is taken up by woman and none by a minority. That is white pale and male in the main.

She also hired the journalist from the Daily Mail that wrote the "Enemies of the People" headline. She sees him fit for a job at No.10?

RobertKK

Elmar Brok MEP thinks the UK are highly likely to leave with no deal, on LBC saying the UK had no plan and has no plan.

Scarinae

Uri Geller (the fella who claims to bend spoons with his mind) has published an open letter to Theresa May saying he's going to telepathically stop Brexit:

My Dear Theresa,
We have known each other for over 21 years since you became our MP. You visited my home in Sonning, where you also lived. Three years before you became Prime Minister, I predicted your victory when I showed you Winston Churchill's spoon on my Cadillac, which I asked you to touch.

Despite popular public opinion, I also predicted that Donald Trump would become the 45th President of the United States.

As you might have read, I am ensuring that Jeremy Corbyn never gets the keys to Number 10 Downing Street, with the power of my mind which I have proved over and again.

I will ensure that they bend out of all proportion to ensure that he never takes up residence there.

My power has been validated by the CIA, MI5 and Mossad.

The CIA concluded: "As a result of Geller's success in this experimental period, we consider that he has demonstrated his paranormal perceptual ability in a convincing and unambiguous manner."

It is easily verifiable. Just look at the official CIA website.

I have influenced many high ranking officials around the world.

On one occasion, Senator Clayborne Pell, then the chair of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, directed me to bombard the mind of Yuli Vorontsov, the Soviet Union’s chief nuclear negotiator, to influence him telepathically to sign the Nuclear Arms Reduction treaty, which I did successfully.

Now to the point of my open letter to you.

I feel psychically and very strongly that most British people do not want Brexit.
I love you very much but I will not allow you to lead Britain into Brexit.

As much as I admire you, I will stop you telepathically from doing this - and believe me I am capable of executing it.

Before I take this drastic course of action, I appeal to you to stop the process immediately while you still have a chance.

Although I currently live in Israel I am still a British citizen and feel very passionately about the country and the people I came to love.

Much energy and love

Uri

ancapailldorcha

Mod: Serious posts only please.

brickster69

Inquitus wrote: »

May's letter to MP's of this evening, worth a read, won't bother with MV3 if it has no chance of passing:

https://twitter.com/nickeardleybbc/status/1109168282249109504

Parliament is shut on Friday this week i think.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2019-03-22/what-parliament-needs-to-do-to-change-brexit-date-from-march-29

An Ciarraioch

Jeffrey Donaldson attending the FG Árd Fheis tomorrow (why are they having another one now, by the way, when the last one was in November?)

http://twitter.com/oconnellhugh/status/1109169211979509761

weemcd

naughtb4 wrote: »

Has this not always been the case?

I can't help but think now online people can tap into these groups so much easier and become indoctrinated faster. There are so many tools to do so, with Facebook, Twitter, YouTube etc and the use of analytics to target exactly the right people. A huge collective cognitive dissonance.

LeinsterDub

The EU increasingly believes a no-deal Brexit on 12 April is the most likely outcome, senior EU officials have said, prompting Emmanuel Macron to privately ask the Irish prime minister if his country could cope

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/22/brexit-uk-has-chance-to-rethink-the-whole-thing-say-eu-leaders

And yet we still have those on here suggesting we'll be pushed under the bus

L1011

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

(why are they having another one now, by the way, when the last one was in November?)

As far as I know TV time rules are one per calendar year and its not televised if its approaching an election. Think only FF, FG, SF, Labour get coverage anyway, that having been the case for donkeys years. Could be >5% consistent votes or something.

FG are clearly expecting an election Quite Soon and want the TV time. They'll probably still use the daytime bits for droning motion discussion as is the norm. There's been some odd timing from other parties before, Labour in 2016 comes to mind - conference with no motions and only one day to ensure it got done before the election was actually called.

Capt'n Midnight

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

April 10th, anniversary of the sinking of RMS Titanic
April 12th, anniversary of the sinking of HMG Brexit

You have to remember the UK is playing chess with an opponent that is about four moves ahead of them.


May 22 is the anniversary of the referendums on the Good Friday Agreement.

Imreoir2

Water John wrote: »

Brexiteers describing indicitive votes as a 'national humiliation' and 'ludicrous'.
So asking MPs what they think is best, isn't democratic?

Of course it's not democratic! You don't ask MP's what they think is best, you tell them what to think and threathen them with loosing their job if they disagree. That's democracy.

hotmail.com

The next big event is tomorrow's protest. They are expecting a million people. Will it make any difference?

ancapailldorcha

No more memes please. Post deleted.

LeinsterDub

hotmail.com wrote: »

The next big event is tomorrow's protest. They are expecting a million people. Will it make any difference?

Not in the slightest. The hardliners will just keep driving for no deal

Capt'n Midnight

Imreoir2 wrote: »

Of course it's not democratic! You don't ask MP's what they think is best, you tell them what to think and threathen them with loosing their job if they disagree. That's democracy.

Unlike Ireland with multi-seat constituencies AND a transferable vote, nearly 60% of UK elections take place in safe seats where the selection committee effectively decides who gets elected.


In an Irish election your greatest threats are your running mates. It's not first past the post on the first count. It's Devil take the hindmost on each of multiple counts.

An Ciarraioch

Useful chart from David Henig on the implications of the indicative vote options:

http://twitter.com/DavidHenigUK/status/1109093283970596869

Irish Praetorian

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

April 10th, anniversary of the sinking of RMS Titanic
April 12th, anniversary of the sinking of HMG Brexit

Just for the benefit of both, the Titanic sank on April the 15th, having being hit by the Iceberg on April 14th and beginning her voyage on April 10th.

Capt'n Midnight

Gintonious wrote: »

https://twitter.com/DarranMarshall/status/1109123555474714624

The importance of the peace process for future trade deals.

About that.
US to prioritise trade deal with EU over UK post-Brexit

He said that he was "skeptical" that any trade deal with the UK would ever happen, pointing out that there was not enough time to negotiate and pass a deal before the end of President Trump's first term in office and the current Congressional session.

ThePanjandrum

hotmail.com wrote: »

The next big event is tomorrow's protest. They are expecting a million people. Will it make any difference?

That means 250,000 tops. Organisers grossly overestimate the crowds, often they say its around three times as large as it really is, The Losers' Vote campaign is prone to greater greater exaggeration than normal.

FrancieBrady

hotmail.com wrote: »

The next big event is tomorrow's protest. They are expecting a million people. Will it make any difference?

A million wont make any difference sadly.

LeinsterDub

ThePanjandrum wrote: »

That means 250,000 tops. Organisers grossly overestimate the crowds, often they say its around three times as large as it really is, The Losers' Vote campaign is prone to greater greater exaggeration than normal.

https://fullfact.org/news/did-670000-march-peoples-vote-brexit/

Well it's easy enough to get accurate numbers on the pro brexit march organised by Nigel