Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

trashcan

devnull wrote: »

I'm reading that article and I have to say that at first I thought it was a parody or some sarcasm, especially when they mentioned the dog, someone not being out in the evening for a while and going to Greece.

I'm still not sure if it's satire or not?

The bit at the end about advising her kids to go to Greece was priceless.

devnull

David Lidington has now ruled himself out as a candidate to succeed Theresa May.

Gove, Johnson, Hunt and Raab now said to be clear front runners according to the bookies. This was my fear, getting rid of May could easily make a No Deal more likely, since anyone who would stop such outcome doesn't want the job or doesn't have the support that they need.

Meanwhile Stephen Barclay says that there is now a crisis because Parliament is trying to over-ride the government. Those are the words that send shivers up my spine. He's essentially saying that the government should be allowed to dictate what happens and parliament should not have a say.

Parliamentary democracy in the UK has always been by putting things to a vote of all elected representatives, not saying that what the government wants the government gets and nobody has a say in it. That's not democracy.

Dyr

devnull wrote: »

David Lidington has now ruled himself out as a candidate to succeed Theresa May.

Gove, Johnson, Hunt and Raab now said to be clear front runners according to the bookies. This was my fear, getting rid of May could easily make a No Deal more likely, since anyone who would stop such outcome doesn't want the job or doesn't have the support that they need.

Meanwhile Stephen Barclay says that there is now a crisis because Parliament is trying to over-ride the government. Those are the words that send shivers up my spine. He's essentially saying that the government should be allowed to dictate what happens and parliament should not have a say.

Parliamentary democracy in the UK has always been by putting things to a vote of all elected representatives, not saying that what the government wants the government gets and nobody has a say in it. That's not democracy.

You're forgetting that the parliament has refused to pass government legislation but is also refusing to withdraw confidence in the government. The Parliament has essentially abdicated from it's own responsibility and the government has refused to admit it cannot govern. You now have a crisis.

devnull

Bambi wrote: »

You're forgetting that the parliament has refused to pass government legislation but is also refusing to withdraw confidence in the government. The Parliament has essentially abdicated from it's own responsibility and the government has refused to admit it cannot govern. You now have a crisis.

The problem is also that everyone is being given a three line whip when they are voting on everything when they should be allowed to vote freely. The fact that the whips have been so busy recently hasn't helped things, as people who might otherwise vote a certain way are not doing so because of this.

There's another discussion to be had on the use of the whip in politics and it's drawbacks which lead to people abstaining or voting for something that they don't really agree with out of fear, but that's for another thread.

marno21

Perhaps the need for Brexit may be mitigated by the Express, may as well remain if these look as real as having an actual blue passport

https://twitter.com/darranmarshall/status/1109543295439507456

devnull

marno21 wrote: »

Perhaps the need for Brexit may be mitigated by the Express, may as well remain if these look as real as having an actual blue passport

https://twitter.com/darranmarshall/status/1109543295439507456

A cheque? In this day and age? That just screams what the Daily Express target audience is doesn't it? Also interesting that they exclude NI. Do the DUP know about that? Sammy will be having a fit!

Joe_ Public

MrFresh wrote: »

Corbyn not attending the march for a vote is either the nail in the coffin for his leadership, the Labour party or the campaign for a second referendum, depending how his fellow Labour MP's respond. All three can't survive that act.

I might be alone on this, but for me the way forward should be clear and Corbyn is all but irrelevant to it.

Put simply, labour have to get behind the WA and ensure it passes. This is not just the most obvious path to a second vote, but one on a remain v Mays deal basis. What committed remainer shouldn’t be delighted with that?

All it takes is for the likes of Tom Watson and Keir Starmer to push Corbyn aside and ensure he stays out of it. Let him go off and worry about his precious elections while the grown ups stay behind and worry about brexit.

So labour politicians will hate the fact they are helping an unpopular Tory deal pass the house. So what? As it is they are standing with the erg and dup. How great does that feel?

Maybe they still think Norway + or other options are achievable, but that’s not certain. What i think is certain is that by passing Mays deal they get a people’s vote along very favorable remainer lines and would be stupid not to go for it.

Rjd2

bilston wrote: »

So the BBC reckon that if May goes senior Tories will back her deal.

I don't understand that. You either think the deal is good or you don't. Changing PM isn't going to change the deal, so why should that impact on whether you vote for it or not. If this is the case it is another example of party before country. Shameful

The ERG want an excuse to vote for Mays deal so May going is a nice piece of revenge for them. Simple as that.

A Dub in Glasgo

marno21 wrote: »

Perhaps the need for Brexit may be mitigated by the Express, may as well remain if these look as real as having an actual blue passport

https://twitter.com/darranmarshall/status/1109543295439507456

The Express have their own NI backstop :pac:

Fantastic showing yesterday in London, well done to anyone on this thread who made it

Capt'n Midnight

robindch wrote: »

Not the only pro-Brexit meeting which turned into a bit of a damp squib. Here's a report from Plymouth, including video goodness:

https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/local-news/brexit-ferry-protest-plymouth-no-2677855

Despite the support from ferry passengers, Mrs Gadd admitted she was disappointed with the turn out.

"People on Facebook were saying they're coming - they but haven't turned up. I feel sorry for people having to to grow up in this country. I'm advising my kids to leave the country - to go to Greece or somewhere."

And just how exactly will they able to go to Greece once Free Movement ends ?


Brexit continues to be beyond parody.

Laois_Man

There’s a crisis meeting of May with senior Tory’s including key ERG members taking place at Chequers this afternoon!

Capt'n Midnight

bilston wrote: »

So the BBC reckon that if May goes senior Tories will back her deal.

I don't understand that. You either think the deal is good or you don't. Changing PM isn't going to change the deal, so why should that impact on whether you vote for it or not. If this is the case it is another example of party before country. Shameful

And what makes anyone think they'd keep their word ?

Many of the ones have voted for her have also voted against her at times.

And the DUP are still saying NO.

And Labour are only about an election.

And the other parties want to Revoke Article 50.


So getting the full party to vote for her deal still don't mean much.

DrumSteve

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

And what makes anyone think they'd keep their word ?

Many of the ones have voted for her have also voted against her at times.

And the DUP are still saying NO.

And Labour are only about an election.

And the other parties want to Revoke Article 50.


So getting the full party to vote for her deal still don't mean much.

I reckon there are a lot of backbenchers plotting their revenge on the DUP regardless of outcome at this stage

robindch

devnull wrote: »

I'm reading that article and I have to say that at first I thought it was a parody or some sarcasm, especially when they mentioned the dog, someone not being out in the evening for a while and going to Greece.
I'm still not sure if it's satire or not?

You're looking at Poe's Law right there.

If there wasn't a video of it, I'd have said it was satire, plus the Plymouth Herald seems to be a straight enough news outlet, so I'm going with "wtf, but true".

Favourite bit is about the protesters swelling "from a crowd of eight to a throng of around a dozen".

BobbyBobberson

They cant even self destruct properly

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1109814744737857536

devnull

BobbyBobberson wrote: »

They cant even self destruct properly

https://twitter.com/tnewtondunn/status/1109814744737857536

If Michael Gove has denied that he has been involved in it, then it's pretty much certain he was, with his track record.

robindch

BobbyBobberson wrote: »

They cant even self destruct properly

They're doing a good enough job of self-destructing the country.

WhiteMan32

Laois_Man wrote: »

There’s a crisis meeting of May with senior Tory’s including key ERG members taking place at Chequers this afternoon!

After what the Chancellor Philip Hammond said during interview on Sky News this morning that a second referendum is a "perfectly coherent proposition" and "deserves to be considered" by the House of Commons, will some MPs present at this crisis meeting demand that TM issues this Cabinet member with a yellow card?

PropJoe10

devnull wrote: »

If Michael Gove has denied it, with his track record, it must be true.

I wouldn't trust Gove as far as I could throw him. He'd be an awful replacement for May - to be honest, there's nothing to gain from removing May at the moment, which they seem to be realising. The pantomime performance continues! :rolleyes:

Kermit.de.frog

None of them want the job at this particular time.

They'd rather let May take the inevitable fall before taking over themselves.

robindch

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

None of them want the job at this particular time.

Was it Mark Rutte, the Dutch PM, who said during the last Tory putsch in December, that frankly, the UK Government was in a runaway car, heading towards a cliff and the Cabinet were arguing about who should hold the steering wheel?

BobbyBobberson

All this talk of the petition is doing my head in. And I say that as someone who voted remain.

Capt'n Midnight

DrumSteve wrote: »

I reckon there are a lot of backbenchers plotting their revenge on the DUP regardless of outcome at this stage

From day one , everyone else expected the DUP to get shafted the minute the Tories no longer needed them. They have form on this.


It's like a repeat of Edward Carson almost 100 years ago
"What a fool I was! I was only a puppet, and so was Ulster, and so was Ireland, in the political game that was to get the Conservative Party into Power"

bilston

BobbyBobberson wrote: »

All this talk of the petition is doing my head in. And I say that as someone who voted remain.

Why is it doing your head in?

BobbyBobberson

bilston wrote: »

Why is it doing your head in?

Just feels utterly pointless, it is not going to change anything.

Laois_Man

BobbyBobberson wrote: »

Just feels utterly pointless, it is not going to change anything.

More dangerous than pointless....the elderly lady who started the petition has received death threats

WhiteMan32

The Revoke Article 50 petition has now passed 5 million signatures: -

https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/241584

Capt'n Midnight

bilston wrote: »

Why is it doing your head in?

But so far the UK government and Labour have been totally ignoring the 16,141,241 people who actually went out and voted Remain.

The petition has just got past 5 million so it'll be ignored too.
It's only merit is that it may put paid to "the will of the people" guff.


The 129,22,659 who didn't vote are another story.

BobbyBobberson

Laois_Man wrote: »

More dangerous than pointless....the elderly lady who started the petition has received death threats

Yeah I seen that, via her phone too which is utterly crazy. She has deleted her social media after the below was printed.

https://order-order.com/2019/03/22/revoke-article-50-petition-creator-threatened-may-discussed-buy-legal-guns-take-commons/

BobbyBobberson

Capt'n Midnight wrote: »

But so far the UK government and Labour have been totally ignoring the 16,141,241 people who actually went out and voted Remain.

The petition has just got past 5 million so it'll be ignored too.
It's only merit is that it may put paid to "the will of the people" guff.


The 129,22,659 who didn't vote are another story.

Yup, absolutely. Taking the decision of 17 million people into account but not 16 million is ridiculous and has led to this utter mess.