Discovery 2x09 'Project Daedalus' [** SPOILERS WITHIN **]

OldMrBrennan83

corkie wrote: »

Most people who get to see it, are probably watching streams from CBS?

Don't use Netflix, myself , but is there away to turn off autoplay of next content in settings of the app.



If you want to see it? Spoilers (especially with title on the next episode): -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BzcybLucSyw

Cheers.


Good episode again, but Tilly needs reined back or removed. The character is a joke.

The Megaphone

I like this show, but the overall story arc is killing character development. Every now and then you need a stray episode to build out one of the bridge crew - more on Airiam's accident and rehabilitation would have good.

Feels like they are trying to move away from the standard Red Shirt Deaths by teasing a bit more personal info on the random people in the background whose names we can't really remember (right before they are killed off!)

GSPfan

I really liked this episode and the loss of Airiam was done really well for a character with no established connection with us as an audience.

I’ve said in the past I really like Tilly but having her run around the bridge blurting out stuff in an eratic fashion makes a mockery of what would be considered normal in any formal setting, let alone a Starfleet bridge.

I could do with this show killing off Burnham because if it’s going to revolve around her for its entire run then I’m never going to be able to fully enjoy it. I don’t think she’s a good enough actor or likeable enough character to be pinning your whole show on.

Slydice

Good episode. Cornwell always a win.

Looks like AI is the enemy and this might lead to the changes starfleet/federation needs
Now just to figure out who this time traveller is.

Not sure why but I thought they handled Spock very well. I think it was how he held his own without going overboard.

pixelburp

Cornwall was a bit of a minus for me, given in season 1 she was keen enough to jump at a genocidal solution to the Klingon war. Didn't quite buy her sudden conscience.

Goodshape

Slydice wrote: »

Not sure why but I thought they handled Spock very well. I think it was how he held his own without going overboard.

Yeah, thought he was great

Johnny Storm

Good, steady ep IMHO

- I thought the fight scenes were pretty hokey, especially as some of the earlier fight scenes were really kick-ass especially when the Empress was involved. Personally I blame director Frakes for this - some of the action scenes in First Contact were pretty ropey too, in particular the deflector dish scene :rolleyes:

- does anyone think the Security chief will be the Red Angel? Her spacesuit is conveniently red ? :pac:

Stark

Michelle Yeoh's been in a lot of martial arts action films in her career so that would have helped.

AMKC

AMKC wrote: »

I really liked that episode.

I thought it was a good way of giving each character a chance to get seen and known. Its the kind of episode we could have done with on season 1 before the Klingon war started.

I liked that Micheal was not the A plot in this but I also do not get all the hate for her.

I like her and think that this episode showed her human side. You could say this was her having a bad day in the office as she did. It was not her day at all.

I thought we might lose the the Commander after Airiam pulled her breathing apparatus off.

I was surprised that Discovery did not try to beam them back off the station when Airium went AWOL or even her off it.

Overall do I thought this was a good episode and we get to find out why Spock was on the run and how it was done which was very good and as said above the explantion for Enterprise not been in the war was good too.

Monotype wrote: »

I was wondering this all through the scene. They literally said "Standing by to beam you out" after they beamed on. Did the transporter chief take a break?

I was also wondering why they never bothered to try. Transporter chief must have been asleep. Not one you would want to count on to save your life.

Quote; I was surprised that Discovery did not try to beam them back off the station when Airium went AWOL or even her off it.

Its in my post above.


Also, the crew and Michael don't take any time to check if the Commander Nahn is okay during moments when she's almost gasping for her dying breath. Pike clearly doesn't give a damn about his Enterprise crew and neither does Michael.

Yes I thought Micheal could have checked alright and then though maybe she that is Commander Nahn has died but we then she she is ok. Micheal still could have checked and Pike should have been asking her is she ok.

PhiloCypher

Enjoyed that. Especially the Burnham Spock argument and his point about how she makes everything about herself, very Meta. The Airiam stuff was well handled, it's just a shame, as others have said, that they didn't sprinkle a few more details about her in previous episodes to add additional pathos. Nothing drastic just the odd canteen scene like we saw in the flash back or a scene of them playing whatever game they were talking about.

Baffled as to the big deal people are making about Burnham not checking on Nahn. Airiam was about to evolve an already melevolent AI to all sentient life in the galaxy threatening levels. But nope she's supposed to ignore that galaxy wide threat and check on Nahn.

Rawr

GSPfan wrote: »

I really liked this episode and the loss of Airiam was done really well for a character with no established connection with us as an audience.

I’ve said in the past I really like Tilly but having her run around the bridge blurting out stuff in an eratic fashion makes a mockery of what would be considered normal in any formal setting, let alone a Starfleet bridge.

I could do with this show killing off Burnham because if it’s going to revolve around her for its entire run then I’m never going to be able to fully enjoy it. I don’t think she’s a good enough actor or likeable enough character to be pinning your whole show on.

I think you summed up a lot of my feelings of this show rather elegantly there

Totally agree with Tilly. It's such a pity, since I did like her in S1...but they seem hell bent on making her "The Zany One" on the bridge. Rather than endearing, it just comes across as jarring and out of place.

I also feel that ending Burnham's arc would improve the show immensely. However my gut tells me that either due to design or due to some kind of clause in Martin-Green's contract...this is show is essentially "Star Trek: Micheal". If she leaves, it'll probably be with the show's finale.

In the grand scale of Trek shows this is still early days, but I don't know if I would last the traditional 7 seasons of Star Trek: Micheal. Makes me wonder if an end for Discovery is planned before that stage, or will it be shut down when Picard's show starts up?

In a burst of madness, I wouldn't actually mind a show following Pike & Co going back to the Enterprise (maybe they can somehow retcon the ship back into it's original form). I'd be afraid they'd have a load more chances to break canon though...

alchemist33

Couldn't have cared less about Airiam in the airlock. If they wanted me to care about her they should have humanised her long ago instead of just before she died. I thought that was really shoddy writing.

I also thought Spock was coming across as a bit of a d1ck; that is until he told Burnham the world didn't revolve around her. I almost cheered at that.

Stark

TBH, the transporter is a bit of a weird plot device in Star trek in general. So many situations across the shows that could have been resolved 2 mins into the episode through the use of the transporter and they've had to invent various excuses for not being able to use it.

helimachoptor

alchemist33 wrote: »

Couldn't have cared less about Airiam in the airlock. If they wanted me to care about her they should have humanised her long ago instead of just before she died. I thought that was really shoddy writing.

I also thought Spock was coming across as a bit of a d1ck; that is until he told Burnham the world didn't revolve around her. I almost cheered at that.

Agree she's been a nobody til this ep.

Spock is very likeable.

But again as said, hopefully its not "Michael you are the centre of the universe blah blah blah"

pixelburp

The funny thing is at least Discovery gave Airium much of the episide so we got some semblance of who she was; it was better than Tasha Yar, who was basically a nobody in TNG, then got a clumsy retroactive hologram saying goodbye to all her supposed best chums. I knew Crosbie famously left early on but was surprised just how clumsily her departure was handled on-screen

Rawr

pixelburp wrote: »

The funny thing is at least Discovery gave Airium much of the episide so we got some semblance of who she was; it was better than Tasha Yar, who was basically a nobody in TNG, then got a clumsy retroactive hologram saying goodbye to all her supposed best chums. I knew Crosbie famously left early on but was surprised just how clumsily her departure was handled on-screen

Holo-Tasha: Goodbye dear friends, and while you wait around on this generic grave-hill, here are some nonsense details about each of you that I somehow had enough time to learn in the last couple of months and then recorded in case of my death.

-Captain, you were my Captain.
-Wesley, you are boy....but that will stop eventually...
-And Data....We F***ed...and that was cool...


(PS. Back in the day I somehow got the impression that they sort of "buried" her on the holodeck. As a kid I wondered how they hell that worked...and also didn't envy the next user of the holodeck suddenly coming across a coffin left in the middle of the holodeck.)

seamus

I enjoyed that. In many ways a nice bit of slowed-down pace compared to some earlier episodes. We got decent decent character building around the bridge crew, and we also had several questions answered, some of which had been hanging around since S1.

Ariam was an augment after an accident (which I believe I predicted ), and several other bridge crew consider themselves "augments". Ariam's incident may explain why augmentation is so less prevalent later on - Starfleet likely banning anything beyond the absolute necessity so as to avoid another compromise. (Even though LaForge was later compromised through his augmentation).

Someone else here was wolf-eared enough to catch the mention of the Control AI last episode. I hadn't and clearly loads of other hadn't either. And it was predicted that Control was the future AI that the red angel was fighting. It's a pretty standard trope. A "Risk analysis" AI calculates that the greatest threat to the galaxy is biological life itself and so goes rogue with the intent of eliminating the threat. Not gonna whinge though, you'd be hard pressed to find a unique storyline, especially when you're still confined to the Star Trek universe.

The mention of Project Daedalus indicates that there's a clear link with the red angel. Which is kind of nice; it suggests that the battle being fought here is not advanced beings coming back hundreds of years to change time, but relatively contemporary technology being used to jump back a few years or decades. I dislike the former; it's a cheap way of being able to write in super-advanced (i.e. magic) technology without any real explanation. If the tech is in development, then that also lends fuel to the idea that Stamets is the Red Angel.

Johnny Storm

Am I missing something? the Red Angel appears to be clearly female?

The spock projection was fairly ambiguous or male i think. Plus they're in a suit
I had a Google there and guesses are floating about both genders
Some article suggested lorca!

jasonb

Johnny Storm wrote: »

Am I missing something? the Red Angel appears to be clearly female?

The first proper image we saw, with Saru's enhanced vision, was clearly female I think. However, as bluewolf says, the one on the screen that Spock was looking at was a lot more ambiguous.

TheValeyard

seamus wrote: »

A "Risk analysis" AI calculates that the greatest threat to the galaxy is biological life itself and so goes rogue with the intent of eliminating the threat. Not gonna whinge though, you'd be hard pressed to find a unique storyline, especially when you're still confined to the Star Trek universe..

seamus

To be fair, Skynet didn't decide humanity was the target because of an overaggressive heuristic loop, it was just trying to protect itself from being shut off.

I, Robot (the movie) would be more similar.

Johnny Storm

bluewolf wrote: »

The spock projection was fairly ambiguous or male i think. Plus they're in a suit
I had a Google there and guesses are floating about both genders
Some article suggested lorca!

This one is fairly reasonable - https://trekmovie.com/2019/03/18/assessing-the-suspects-for-the-red-angel-on-star-trek-discovery/

Witcher

I love Pike, 'hit it' has to be the best way to order a jump to warp.

Tilly is a pain in the balls, the manner they have given her is so far away from how she should act. Look at how Pike/Michael/Saru act, they don't get flustered and blurt sh1t out, I know she's young/inexperienced etc. But she should be even more deferential to senior officers in that case, 'Go Ops' the other week...fcuk me :pac: I know she's in the mould of a wunderkind Wesley Crusher type with a touch of 'everyday' person that we can all connect with on a supposed easier level but it's too much. I want to see characters with a professionalism that befits their station, maybe I'm wrong.

helimachoptor

Witcher wrote: »

I love Pike, 'hit it' has to be the best way to order a jump to warp.

Tilly is a pain in the balls, the manner they have given her is so far away from how she should act. Look at how Pike/Michael/Saru act, they don't get flustered and blurt sh1t out, I know she's young/inexperienced etc. But she should be even more deferential to senior officers in that case, 'Go Ops' the other week...fcuk me :pac: I know she's in the mould of a wunderkind Wesley Crusher type with a touch of 'everyday' person that we can all connect with on a supposed easier level but it's too much. I want to see characters with a professionalism that befits their station, maybe I'm wrong.

yeah agree, the character just jars with everything star trek is imho.

Stark

For all Wesley's annoyances, he generally conducted himself with decorum from what I recall.

Sad Professor

Tilly as a character is fine. The issue is the failure of the characters around her to acknowledge that she's too much. Even if there was just one character who disliked her and consistently gave her a hard time, it would build sympathy in the audience for her.

This is a problem with Burnham as well, especially this season where everyone (with the exception of Spock) seems to be constantly in awe of her brilliance and just lets her do what she wants.

Goodshape

Could do with a "Lieutenant Broccoli" moment alright.

pixelburp

Tilly's manner seems to vacillate from episode to episode, to the point where I think the fundamental issue is not the character, but the writing. Her small scene with Admiral Cornwall was terrible, but it jarred because it felt more like the 'idea' of Tilly - hyperactive, starry eyed cadet with poor social skills - than the more robust versions of the character we've got in other episodes. I think the fault was the writer, who couldn't pitch her behaviour as deftly as others, so you get this constantly shifting scale of 'Tilly'ness

Rawr

jasonb wrote: »

The first proper image we saw, with Saru's enhanced vision, was clearly female I think. However, as bluewolf says, the one on the screen that Spock was looking at was a lot more ambiguous.

Hmmm....maybe they are not all the same person? Just thinking about that now....