Bloody Sunday soldier to be charged with murder

Plumbthedepths

janfebmar wrote:

So it was ok to kill his companion?

Putting yourself in a vehicle with a known terrorist whom is wanted by the authorities may not be the best if ideas.
But your referencing this event is not for your concern of O'Hares companion. You have already tried to suggest the victims of the Paras on Bloody Sunday had nail bombs. You are a pathetic individual and your behaviour here is abhorrent.

Plumbthedepths

janfebmar wrote:

And yet if a soldier kills an unknown person in a speeding car that breaks through a checkpoint in N. Ireland, I thought I read that the soldier responsible there spent years in prison. Maybe I was wrong.

You have been wrong multiple times, so no change there. You seem intent on justifying murder by the security services though.

janfebmar

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Putting yourself in a vehicle with a known terrorist whom is wanted by the authorities may not be the best if ideas.

If you are in a speeding car it is probably difficult for the authorities to know exactly who is in the car.

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You have already tried to suggest the victims of the Paras on Bloody Sunday had nail bombs.

No I did not, I said they were innocent and should not have been shot. Get your facts right. Read the Saville report. In actual fact Saville concludes the nail bombs found on someone were on him, and were not planted, when he was shot. I said they were probably planted, because you could not trust the British at the time. Either way, there was no justification for justifying shooting those shot on Bloody Sunday. They were innocent and certainly no danger to the army when they were shot.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/the-bloody-sunday-victims-their-stories-and-what-the-2010-saville-report-said-about-them-1.3825842

Plumbthedepths

janfebmar wrote:

I cannot remember much of the English riots in 2011 - had people in the English riots nail bombs / petrol bombs and killed previously?

janfebmar wrote:

No I did not, I said they were innocent and should not have been shot. Get your facts right. Read the Saville report. In actual fact Saville concludes the nail bombs found on someone were on him, and were not planted, when he was shot. I said they were probably planted, because you could not trust the British at the time. Either way, there was no justification for justifying shooting those shot on Bloody Sunday. They were innocent and certainly no danger to the army when they were shot.

I'm finished replying to the likes of you.

janfebmar

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

You seem intent on justifying murder by the security services though.

No actually, I asked was " it was ok to kill his companion?" Just beause he was travelling in the car with Dessie O'Hare did he deserve to be shot dead? Perhaps the security services could have used a stinger or spike strip across the road instead some distance ahead? I did not justify murder by the security services.

tara73

this is just insane stuff, all about Bloody Sunday and everything about the British suppression of the irish.

Honest question, has one british government ever apologised to the irish? I never heard they did. If not, why not and an absolute disgrace.

Timberrrrrrrr

janfebmar wrote: »

A car broke through a checkpoint and Irish security forces fired on it, killing an occupant and wounding another. Shortly afterwards Taoiseach Charles Haughey congratulated the Gardai and army and said the Irish people owed them 'a great debt of gratitude.'

And he was right!

Odhinn

janfebmar wrote: »

So it was ok to kill his companion? And to get commended by the Taoiseach for doing so.

And yet if a soldier kills an unknown person in a speeding car that breaks through a checkpoint in N. Ireland, I thought I read that the soldier responsible there spent years in prison. Maybe I was wrong.

I linked it a few pages back, so cut the crap please. The para shot into a speeding car at a pair of teenagers.

Edgware

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

I'm finished replying to the likes of you.

Ah dont go. You're great craic

Plumbthedepths

Edgware wrote:

Ah dont go. You're great craic

Didn't say i was going, just not engaging any further with an apologist for murderers.

janfebmar

Plumbthedepths wrote: »

Didn't say i was going, just not engaging any further with an apologist for murderers.

It was Taoiseach Charles Haughey at the time who congratulated the Gardai and army. He said the Irish people owed them 'a great debt of gratitude." I did not say that.

I wrote" Just beause he was travelling in the car with Dessie O'Hare did he deserve to be shot dead? Perhaps the security services could have used a stinger or spike strip across the road instead some distance ahead? I did not justify murder by the security services." So do not call me an apologist for murderers. If you fell that strongly about punishing a soldier who shot and killed someone who tried to speed through a roadblock, maybe you think the Republic should have followed the Norths lead, where a Para was jailed for killing someone who sped through a roadblock? Is that what your point is?

In the States you definitely do stop at roadblocks, I always did anyway when I lived there for some years. Did you know police in the U.S. kill on average more than 1,000 men per year, or about three men per day? I know it is a big country, but still. I'm sure some of those were innocent too. Certainly not all deserved to die.

Odhinn

janfebmar wrote: »

It was Taoiseach(...............) to die.

Do you understand the difference between "teenager" and "armed criminal"?

blackwhite

RobMc59 wrote: »

And so it begins-raking up the past going to cause more trouble.
https://www.derrynow.com/news/republicans-say-will-radically-confront-proposed-british-army-veterans-rally-derry/271313

One or two debt collection agencies might also be planning to disrupt that rally given who is involved in organising it ........

RobMc59

blackwhite wrote: »

One or two debt collection agencies might also be planning to disrupt that rally given who is involved in organising it ........

Not sure what you mean but I'm relieved the rally has been cancelled.

dermo888

Over the years, I've tried to understand all sides. I'd an English friend from Norwich who served in the British Armed Forces. Since he's dead now, I might as well give his opinion. While alive, I could never talk. I would'nt. Its just one of those things, we can't mess with. Its just too dangerous.

He'd served in Aden, Derry and South Armagh. Politically he'd be Conservative leaning, anti-Brexit. He left the Armed Forces in 1971, and he was'nt happy at all with the direction Northern Ireland was going.

Surprisingly - for an ex British Armed Forces guy, he'd say go ahead with a prosecution, because the 'Rules of Engagement' with a civilian population were'nt followed.

I won't deny that at times Roger could be racist, - he certainly did'nt think much of the Saudis, loathed their driving technique, their work ethic, and a bit more. But he liked Ireland and the Irish. He had'nt much time for the Unionists at all, considering them backward bitter and twisted, and saw that Ireland was ready to move on.

Its just a pity he's not around (died in July 2018 aged 71), to say more.

For an ex soldier he was'nt the type to turn and say 'This is war'. Northern Ireland was a funny kind of war. In South Armagh, there were no rules. Belfast too. Derry was a different 'odder' kind of place. Northern Ireland and its conflict were'nt geographically homogenous. Only a local could understand it. Heck the Sodliers and the British Government could'nt understand it.

steddyeddy

janfebmar wrote: »

If you are in a speeding car it is probably difficult for the authorities to know exactly who is in the car.




No I did not, I said they were innocent and should not have been shot. Get your facts right. Read the Saville report. In actual fact Saville concludes the nail bombs found on someone were on him, and were not planted, when he was shot. I said they were probably planted, because you could not trust the British at the time. Either way, there was no justification for justifying shooting those shot on Bloody Sunday. They were innocent and certainly no danger to the army when they were shot.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/the-bloody-sunday-victims-their-stories-and-what-the-2010-saville-report-said-about-them-1.3825842

But the soldiers at Warrenpoint were also armed!

Timberrrrrrrr

I see a British court has ruled that the Birmingham pub bombings were indeed murder, i wonder will the IRA supporters in the thread continue to make excuses for that disgraceful action or will they have the guts to call for the bomers still alive to be arrested and tried for murder?


Birmingham pub bombing was IRA murder, jury rules

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-birmingham-pub-bombings-jury-14240359

There was a dramatic twist towards the end of evidence at the hearings, when a former IRA member named four of the men he claimed were involved in the bombings as Seamus McLoughlin, Mick Murray, Michael Hayes and James Francis Gavin.

The man, identified in court only as "Witness O", said he had been authorised to give those names by the current head of the IRA in Dublin.

Edgware

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I see a British court has ruled that the Birmingham pub bombings were indeed murder, i wonder will the IRA supporters in the thread continue to make excuses for that disgraceful action or will they have the guts to call for the bomers still alive to be arrested and tried for murder?


Birmingham pub bombing was IRA murder, jury rules

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-birmingham-pub-bombings-jury-14240359

Was there ever any doubt that it was murder?
"Current head of the I.R.A."
I thought they had gone away

Timberrrrrrrr

Edgware wrote: »

Was there ever any doubt that it was murder?
"Current head of the I.R.A."
I thought they had gone away

Some have called it an "accident" or the victims were "collateral damage".

markodaly

So, I expect that Sinn Fein/IRA will hand over those responsible for these bombings so that they can be tried under a court of Law.

Or, is it different somehow now because its an IRA man under the cosh.

riffmongous

Let justice be served. It will be interesting to see though how consistent British justice is, if being at the scene of a mass murder and discharging your weapon isn't sufficient evidence to bring you to trial will a bit of hearsay do?

Berserker

Great news for the victims of the Birmingham bombings and the Irish community in Birmingham who've have had to live with this cloud over theirs heads for decades. Let's hope they can press ahead with haste and bring those responsible to justice.

Edgware wrote: »

Was there ever any doubt that it was murder?
"Current head of the I.R.A." I thought they had gone away

It was always murder. It's an offensive to be a member of the IRA isn't it? Hope the name of this individual has been handed over to the Gardai and the individual in question, along with all of his or her terrorist pals are arrested, charged and thrown into prison for a nice long stretch.

James Brown

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I see a British court has ruled that the Birmingham pub bombings were indeed murder, i wonder will the IRA supporters in the thread continue to make excuses for that disgraceful action or will they have the guts to call for the bomers still alive to be arrested and tried for murder?


Birmingham pub bombing was IRA murder, jury rules

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/breaking-birmingham-pub-bombings-jury-14240359

You're right there's no difference between the British Armed Forces and the Irish Republican Army.

Timberrrrrrrr

Matt Barrett wrote: »

You're right there's no difference between the British Armed Forces and the Irish Republican Army.

I see no difference in murder, if someone murders innocent people they should face the full weight of the law.

Timberrrrrrrr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I see no difference in murder, if someone murders innocent people they should face the full weight of the law.

But only if the justice is equal on both sides?

Shelga

Took them 6 weeks to decide it was murder?? Was it not blindingly obvious?

Don’t understand why this has taken 45 years- what am I missing?

Timberrrrrrrr

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But only if the justice is equal on both sides?

If you murder someone, no matter who you are, you should be arrested and put on trial and prosecuted to the FULL extent of the law!

I have never mentioned sides, i have said ANYONE who murders another person should be held responsible for their actions.

Timberrrrrrrr

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

If you murder someone, no matter who you are, you should be arrested and put on trial and prosecuted to the FULL extent of the law!

I have never mentioned sides, i have said ANYONE who murders another person should be held responsible for their actions.

Well I for one would be happy for everyone on both sides to be prosecuted as well. I imagine the majority of people would be the same.

Edgware

Berserker wrote: »

Great news for the victims of the Birmingham bombings and the Irish community in Birmingham who've have had to live with this cloud over theirs heads for decades. Let's hope they can press ahead with haste and bring those responsible to justice.



It was always murder. It's an offensive to be a member of the IRA isn't it? Hope the name of this individual has been handed over to the Gardai and the individual in question, along with all of his or her terrorist pals are arrested, charged and thrown into prison for a nice long stretch.

At least two are dead and one other a chronic alcoholic

Edgware

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But only if the justice is equal on both sides?

Whats the sense of that?
Dont prosecute one side because you cant get to the other. Nonsense

James Brown

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I see no difference in murder, if someone murders innocent people they should face the full weight of the law.

I agree. Both sides in no hurry to put their hand up either.

Edgware

Edgware wrote: »

Whats the sense of that?
Dont prosecute one side because you cant get to the other. Nonsense

That was my point based on a lot of whataboutery..

steddyeddy

Edgware wrote: »

Whats the sense of that?
Dont prosecute one side because you cant get to the other. Nonsense

Ha. You really should read the news about the Bloody Sunday prosecution. Every single defence from people in this thread and in the media has included "Why do we prosecute these soldiers if the IRA were granted immunity?". Despite the fact that significantly more IRA did receive jail time.

partyguinness

steddyeddy wrote: »

Ha. You really should read the news about the Bloody Sunday prosecution. Every single defence from people in this thread and in the media has included "Why do we prosecute these soldiers if the IRA were granted immunity?". Despite the fact that significantly more IRA did receive jail time.

Following on from that point, IRA/UVF/LVF etc members were and are still prosecuted and convicted. Some spent years in jail and then released under the GFA.


'eff all British soldiers were prosecuted or did any jail time. The British Gov sheltered them.

Edgware

partyguinness wrote: »

Following on from that point, IRA/UVF/LVF etc members were and are still prosecuted and convicted. Some spent years in jail and then released under the GFA.


'eff all British soldiers were prosecuted or did any jail time. The British Gov sheltered them.

Whereas the I.R.A. handed up their members, including paedophiles, for prosecution

NIMAN

People continuing to compare a terrorist organisation with the states' forces of law and order.

Always baffles me.

partyguinness

Edgware wrote: »

Whereas the I.R.A. handed up their members, including paedophiles, for prosecution

Really. I have no idea. i am just making a general point about the GFA.

James Brown

Edgware wrote: »

Whereas the I.R.A. handed up their members, including paedophiles, for prosecution

Have the Paras handed over any murderers to the IRA for judgement? Didn't think so, so why would the IRA give their men over to british 'justice'?
And what government does the IRA answer to? Who does Frau Windsor watch parade? Give over. If you want to compare like with like at least actually do it equally.

Junkyard Tom

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

I see a British court has ruled that the Birmingham pub bombings were indeed murder

I don't remember the families of those killed in Birmingham seeking to have their murdered loved-ones found innocent. Unlike the Ballymurphy families of those murdered by dregs-of-humanity Paras are still trying to.

Learn the difference.

steddyeddy

Edgware wrote: »

Whereas the I.R.A. handed up their members, including paedophiles, for prosecution

What have the IRA's actions got to do with British army prosecutions? Follow your own advice.

Dont prosecute one side because you cant get to the other. Nonsense

nacho libre

He'll be dead before there is any chance of a successful prosecution.

Has anyone seen the Miami Showband documentary on Netflix? Very disturbing content in it.
I suppose the head of the FRU and the British establishment of the time use the end justifies the means spiel - even if that extends to stiching up one of your own intelligence officers to obscure the truth. In another time and place Gordon would be facing criminal charges over what he presided over.

Timberrrrrrrr

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

I don't remember the families of those killed in Birmingham seeking to have their murdered loved-ones found innocent. Unlike the Ballymurphy families of those murdered by dregs-of-humanity Paras are still trying to.

Learn the difference.

Is the Birmingham families loss any less than the Ballymurphy families? Are they not entitles to justice for their murdered loved ones too?

FrancieBrady

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Is the Birmingham families loss any less than the Ballymurphy families? Are they not entitles to justice for their murdered loved ones too?

Seriously, what kind of a question is that.

Timberrrrrrrr

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Seriously, what kind of a question is that.

One you can't answer?

FrancieBrady

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

One you can't answer?

Everyone is entitled to justice?

Timberrrrrrrr

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Everyone is entitled to justice?

Ding ding ding he can be taught!

janfebmar

partyguinness wrote: »

IRA/UVF/LVF etc members were and are still prosecuted and convicted.

And thousands were not. Some were released and rewarded.
Between 1971 and 1989 there were 203 murders in the Fermanagh and south Tyrone area alone, of which about 178 were carried out by republican paramilitaries. Only 14 convictions followed. So an awful lot of people were not prosecuted and convicted.

FrancieBrady

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Ding ding ding he can be taught!

That has been my position since year dot. So take the sanctimonious nonsense elsewhere. The actual fact is that you are one of the first posters on scene to defend the BA and British along with your thanker and a few others.

A sovereign, supposedly responsible and moral government has had to be, for more than 40 years, dragged, kicking and screaming to admit it's and it's agencies role in the conflict/war here and to administer justice to ONE soldier.
They have many more cases to answer here and in every colony/warzone they were in.

I want and require justice for everyone because it is the only way to heal this society.

You and your thankers are still fighting the war/conflict.

James Brown

Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »

Ding ding ding he can be taught!

Yet you are doomed to repeat your ignorance, inherited or otherwise.

Timberrrrrrrr

FrancieBrady wrote: »

That has been my position since year dot. So take the sanctimonious nonsense elsewhere. The actual fact is that you are one of the first posters on scene to defend the BA and British along with your thanker and a few others.

A sovereign, supposedly responsible and moral government has had to be, for more than 40 years, dragged, kicking and screaming to admit it's and it's agencies role in the conflict/war here and to administer justice to ONE soldier.
They have many more cases to answer here and in every colony/warzone they were in.

I want and require justice for everyone because it is the only way to heal this society.

You and your thankers are still fighting the war/conflict.

And yet you and i both know that i am on record many times on these boards saying that ANYONE suspected of murder should be investigated and ANYONE convicted of murder, no matter WHO they are shoukd face the full force of the law.

You can claim all you like that i defend the BA/British but i defend them at the same level you do when it comes to the IRA/SF so its yourself who should be taking the "sanctimonious nonsense elsewhere".