Mass shooting New Zealand Mosque - MOD NOTE POST #1

Mitch Connor

Danzy wrote: »

Both left and right fringes are veering sharply in to totalitarian beliefs once more.

Isn't that what the fringes of beliefs have always been though - the further from centre you are the more extreme and tribalist you become.

friendlyfun

callous disregard for human life. Shows the danger of that the Far Right poses.

Fann Linn

Australian senator after throwing petrol on the flames with his speech. Basically said 'what do muslims expect, they're normally the perpetrators.'

Mitch Connor

Das Reich wrote: »

When they killed coptes in Egypt there was many mulsim people celebrating. All the bad things they did one day will go back to them.

Wasn't that debunked as being a bunch of muslims celebrating some sporting event, but shared by right wing fascist bots as what you want it to have been?

Danzy

KikiLaRue wrote: »

If you are white and you live in a different country you are an expat.

If you are any shade of black or brown, you are an immigrant.

Most expats I know are Indian.

By definition an expat is not an immigrant. That is why they are an ex pat.

TallGlass

Kevin Finnerty wrote: »

I wouldn't try read too much into any of his reasoning. A pure coward who sadly took 49 with him just to fulfill some sick twisted fantasy.

Doesn't seem like he was all there to begin with if you ask me. If you've that much time in the day to write up 79 or so pages and get upset so much and plan for going to shoot unarmed people. You don't have a life. I wonder if there are others in this with him.

Wibbs

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Isn't that what the fringes of beliefs have always been though - the further from centre you are the more extreme and tribalist you become.

Yeah Mitch, but in the last few years opinion on all sides has tended more towards the more extreme and tribalist. This is very evident online. Take the decline of forums in favour of WhatsApp, Facebook, reddit et al. Forums are linear and back and forth and you get to see other opinions, bad, good or indifferent, whether you want to or not. In the newer arenas you get far more partisan opinions and rarely see any contrary positions. That's not good no matter what one's beliefs are. It gives the true believers even the insane radicals the idea that "everyone" agrees with them, except for "enemies". Scary times.

Das Reich

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Wasn't that debunked as being a bunch of muslims celebrating some sporting event, but shared by right wing fascist bots as what you want it to have been?

No. I did read the comments and the profiles on facebook it looked real.

KikiLaRue

Das Reich wrote: »

No. I did read the comments and the profiles on facebook it looked real.

Cool username b t dubs...

So, assuming that was true (still very much in doubt)... you're saying these Muslims deserved to be shot dead for the crimes of some other Muslims on the other side of the world...?

Mitch Connor

Danzy wrote: »

Most expats I know are Indian.

By definition an expat is not an immigrant. That is why they are an ex pat.

What? an ex-pat is an immigrant. its just what term you want to use.

How do you define the difference?

Calhoun

Wibbs wrote: »

Yeah Mitch, but in the last few years opinion on all sides has tended more towards the more extreme and tribalist. This is very evident online. Take the decline of forums in favour of WhatsApp, Facebook, reddit et al. Forums are linear and back and forth and you get to see other opinions, bad, good or indifferent, whether you want to or not. In the newer arenas you get far more partisan opinions and rarely see any contrary positions. That's not good no matter what one's beliefs are. It gives the true believers even the insane radicals the idea that "everyone" agrees with them, except for "enemies". Scary times.

Even forums can be abused but mainly from the mods own political bias. At the moment a gaming/culture forum is banning people who are asking how this has anything to do with PewDiePie.

The danger of not having a contrary opinion is the echo chamber that reenforces bad opinions but also drives allot of division as contrary opinion is punished.

Gbear

TallGlass wrote: »

Doesn't seem like he was all there to begin with if you ask me. If you've that much time in the day to write up 79 or so pages and get upset so much and plan for going to shoot unarmed people. You don't have a life. I wonder if there are others in this with him.

But that's the nature of all the people who commit these kinds of attacks.

The profiles of terrorists, whether they're anti government, Islamic, neo-fascist, tend to be quite similar. Men with low social cachet who want to feel powerful and need a target for the hate they feel, born of their own inadequacy.

The techniques used to radicalise men online by far right groups are similar to the ones deployed by IS. Their beliefs - anti-women, anti-modernity, honour-based values and violence, align quite closely as well.

The flavour of their creeds differ but the nuts and bolts are pretty much the same.

KikiLaRue

KikiLaRue wrote: »

If you are white and you live in a different country you are an expat.

If you are any shade of black or brown, you are an immigrant.

Jesus Christ the inanity. There is nothing in this world that tells me more about a person than when they say this exact shlte.

An expat doesn't plan for his grandchildren to study in that country, an immigrant does. It's got nothing to do with skin, it just so happens that more white people have the opportunity to drop a life in one place and start one somewhere else for however many years.

I work with a "brown-skinned" Irani, and am friends with "black" Africans and Afghanis, and we are definitely all expats.

Mitch Connor

Wibbs wrote: »

Yeah Mitch, but in the last few years opinion on all sides has tended more towards the more extreme and tribalist. This is very evident online. Take the decline of forums in favour of WhatsApp, Facebook, reddit et al. Forums are linear and back and forth and you get to see other opinions, bad, good or indifferent, whether you want to or not. In the newer arenas you get far more partisan opinions and rarely see any contrary positions. That's not good no matter what one's beliefs are. It gives the true believers even the insane radicals the idea that "everyone" agrees with them, except for "enemies". Scary times.

THe online world is nasty for it though, and twitter etc are a problem because of the echo chamber nature.

I would be left leaning (but would have right wing views on some things). Most people I follow would be leftest I suppose. What happens is some right wing nut job will post something wild, the left will retweet it as "look at this freaking moron" and that viewpoint becomes seen as the view point of the right.

The same happens the other way - left wing nut job rubbish is shared as a left viewpoint on the right.

The views of the centre and moderate do not generate the clicks or comments - the extremes do and it shapes how each side views the other.

Danzy

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Isn't that what the fringes of beliefs have always been though - the further from centre you are the more extreme and tribalist you become.

The fringes seem bigger now or have more traction.

Mitch Connor

Deleted User wrote: »

Jesus Christ the inanity. There is nothing in this world that tells me more about a person than when they say this exact shlte.

An expat doesn't plan for his grandchildren to study in that country, an immigrant does. It's got nothing to do with skin, it just so happens that more white people have the opportunity to drop a life in one place and start one somewhere else for however many years.

I work with a "brown-skinned" Irani, and am friends with "black" Africans and Afghanis, and we are definitely all expats.

expat -
a person who lives outside their native country.
denoting or relating to a person living outside their native country.

Das Reich

KikiLaRue wrote: »

Cool username b t dubs...

So, assuming that was true (still very much in doubt)... you're saying these Muslims deserved to be shot dead for the crimes of some other Muslims on the other side of the world...?

This mantra is common by white leftists, trying to changings other people words. What I said is that those kinds of attacks happens everyday on their countries.

Danzy

Deleted User wrote: »

Jesus Christ the inanity. There is nothing in this world that tells me more about a person than when they say this exact shlte.

An expat doesn't plan for his grandchildren to study in that country, an immigrant does. It's got nothing to do with skin, it just so happens that more white people have the opportunity to drop a life in one place and start one somewhere else for however many years.

I work with a "brown-skinned" Irani, and am friends with "black" Africans and Afghanis, and we are definitely all expats.

It is like they do not understand what an ex pat is.

I suppose it is obvious they do not not.

It is a pet peeve of mine.

ahnowbrowncow

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

Lowest of the low attacking people in their place of worship

Is it? I don't see how it's any more despicable than attacking people innocently going about their daily lives.

Mitch Connor

Danzy wrote: »

It is like they do not understand what an ex pat is.

I suppose it is obvious they do not not.

It is a pet peeve of mine.

No, its like they don't agree with your narrow, arguably incorrect, definition of it.

Baggly

Mod

Everyone. People have died. Keep that in focus for this discussion. This thread is going through the roof in terms of the 'people trying to drag things off topic' o-meter.

TallGlass

TallGlass wrote: »

Doesn't seem like he was all there to begin with if you ask me. If you've that much time in the day to write up 79 or so pages and get upset so much and plan for going to shoot unarmed people. You don't have a life. I wonder if there are others in this with him.

Sorry, answering my own question here..

'Four people in total are now in custody – three men and one woman – and a number of IEDs (improvised explosive devices) have been discovered around the city. The explosive devices were attached to vehicles belonging to the detained suspects. None had detonated and were subsequently made safe by the military.'

ancapailldorcha

Pter wrote: »

Mod

Everyone. People have died. Keep that in focus for this discussion. This thread is going through the roof in terms of the 'people trying to drag things off topic' o-meter.

Bear this in mind please.

TallGlass

TallGlass wrote: »

Sorry, answering my own question here..

'Four people in total are now in custody – three men and one woman – and a number of IEDs (improvised explosive devices) have been discovered around the city. The explosive devices were attached to vehicles belonging to the detained suspects. None had detonated and were subsequently made safe by the military.'

Just up on BBC.

A man in his late twenties was charged with murder and will appear in court on Saturday morning, police confirmed.

Two other men and one woman were detained nearby and firearms seized, Police Commissioner Mike Bush said.

He said one of those detained was later released, while officers were working to understand if the other two were connected.


Two now being held along with the shooter.

evolving_doors

Wonder why the shooter went on holidays to Pakistan?
https://preview.redd.it/r3iv410hp8m21.jpg?width=295&auto=webp&9732eb3d

tuxy

evolving_doors wrote: »

Wonder why the shooter went on holidays to Pakistan?
https://preview.redd.it/r3iv410hp8m21.jpg?width=295&auto=webp&9732eb3d

To experience a country with very little emigration.

The Moleman

I just watched an NZ news clip where a guy told how a young member of the Linwood mosque tackled the shooter and disarmed him.

The gunman fled and there was others in the car. The young fella actually ran after him

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12213205

Anteayer

It's just horrific. What can you say? My deep sympathy, condolences and solidary to out to the victims and their families and friends.

I really think we need to do more to tackle the online bubbles of hate though. There's a commonality to all of these vicious attacks of all varieties. They seem to come down to bubbles and echo chambers online that attract psychopaths who's hate gets amplified and then they manage to turn it into an attack on a large group of innocent people.

There's a common thread between all of these extremists of all types and even the school shooters that keep cropping up in the US.

I don't really know how it can be tackled, but the internet has definitely changed the dynamic. The same things that are tremendously positive that allow like minded individuals to easily connect, to come together in a positive way have also connected some or the nastiest, most toxic and downright evil ideologies you could possibly think of.

I'm not in pro censorship but I do think that the likes of social media outlets using algorithms to feed people stories and so on could do a lot more to inject an element of random into it to avoid some of it but I don't think it's possible to prevent downright nasty and toxic hate seeing out similar.

I think just sitting here wringing our hands and saying nothing can be done is going to just lead to more and more chaos.

PressRun

Not surprising. An attack like this has been brewing and I don't think it will be the last of its kind. Right wing extremism is well and truly through the wire at this point, and is being aided and abetted by a media that is more concerned with "balance" and the "marketplace of ideas" than they are with actually challenging hateful rhetoric. What's even scarier is the amount of people who don't seem to realise the layers to this, how deep it goes and how high. These echo chambers have been building online, unfiltered, for literally years. They're now coming into the mainstream and people still don't get it. It's all just considered normal.

Snow Garden

The Moleman wrote: »

I just watched an NZ news clip where a guy told how a young member of the Linwood mosque tackled the shooter and disarmed him.

The gunman fled and there was others in the car. The young fella actually ran after him

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12213205

He is a hero. The death toll could have been much more.

friendlyfun

Anteayer wrote: »

It's just horrific. What can you say? My deep sympathy, condolences and solidary to out to the victims and their families and friends.

I really think we need to do more to tackle the online bubbles of hate though. There's a commonality to all of these vicious attacks of all varieties. They seem to come down to bubbles and echo chambers online that attract psychopaths who's hate gets amplified and then they manage to turn it into an attack on a large group of innocent people.

There's a common thread between all of these extremists of all types and even the school shooters that keep cropping up in the US.

I don't really know how it can be tackled, but the internet has definitely changed the dynamic. The same things that are tremendously positive that allow like minded individuals to easily connect, to come together in a positive way have also connected some or the nastiest, most toxic and downright evil ideologies you could possibly think of.

I'm not in pro censorship but I do think that the likes of social media outlets using algorithms to feed people stories and so on could do a lot more to inject an element of random into it to avoid some of it but I don't think it's possible to prevent downright nasty and toxic hate seeing out similar.

I think just sitting here wringing our hands and saying nothing can be done is going to just lead to more and more chaos.

Events like this really show the pernicious side of social media. How a guy could livestream a massacre is absolutely crazy.

mcmoustache

This guy killed killed 49 muslims in a racially motivated attack after spending too much time in the alt-right bubble. This type of stuff has been happening more and more often.

*mod - snipping out deleted post*

PressRun

PressRun wrote: »

Not surprising. An attack like this has been brewing and I don't think it will be the last of its kind. Right wing extremism is well and truly through the wire at this point, and is being aided and abetted by a media that is more concerned with "balance" and the "marketplace of ideas" than they are with actually challenging hateful rhetoric. What's even scarier is the amount of people who don't seem to realise the layers to this, how deep it goes and how high. These echo chambers have been building online, unfiltered, for literally years. They're now coming into the mainstream and people still don't get it. It's all just considered normal.

I would say that your view on the media is incredibly wrong with regards providing balance.

This is an absolutely horrific incident carried out by horrendous people in an attack based on racial/ideological beliefs.

People on the right and the left are pretty much in unison with regards to condemning this and only a select few are using this as a point scoring exercise.

PressRun

friendlyfun wrote: »

Events like this really show the pernicious side of social media. It can literally be used as platform. How a guy could livestream a massacre is absolutely crazy.

Facebook and YouTube and other sites have been asleep at the wheel for years on this. It's on those websites that all of this extremism has been building for a long time now, and it's been wilfully ignored by social media companies who have actively turned a blind eye to how the platform is used as long as they turn a profit.

Kermit.de.frog

I think with Trump, the rise of right wing parties in Europe and Brexit every nutter and extremist around the world has been given encouragment and, to them, i'd imagine a license to carry out horrible depraived acts of violence.

It's all connected.

RIP to all victims.

TallGlass

The Moleman wrote: »

I just watched an NZ news clip where a guy told how a young member of the Linwood mosque tackled the shooter and disarmed him.

The gunman fled and there was others in the car. The young fella actually ran after him

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12213205

What a hero.

It's a pity he couldn't find the trigger, but job well done. Safe to save he saved countless more lives.

SporadicMan

Alt-right echo chambers online work very similarly to the mosques with radical imams. Both of them are literally the same type of thing, just different ideologies.

Prey on the weak, lonely people who crave a sense of belonging. Prop up enemies who can be collectively demonised.

The big issue is both of them are left to their own devices with nobody caring until they've actually taken action. Then it happens, you look at all the details and think "How was all of this allowed to happen?"

And they're both only going to feed each other and escalate it. How many 'on the fence' extremist Muslims are going to be pushed over the edge as a result of this?

How many alt-righters are going to be spurred on by this, or were pushed over the edge by previous Islamist terrorist attacks?

This isn't going away.

AudreyHepburn

Deleted User wrote: »

I can understand the mentality of watching the video. It drives home the reality of the situation instead of it being just "another news story".

In this day and age, events like this come and go and are replaced by the next horrific act without it resonating fully with people. You rarely hear about the Vegas shooting or the news reporter that was shot live on air anymore.

Watching the video can sometimes make you treat it as an actual incident rather than something you read about underneath the latest Kardashian story.

Sometime you have to witness horrific things to understand them.

I can see why people wouldn't want to see it but I wouldn't condemn people who do watch the video.

Watching it no, I wouldn’t criticize anyone for that although I can’t imagine any reason why anyone would want to.

Sharing it though I take serious issue with. I think it’s disrespectful and insensitive and I have to question the mindset of anyone who does it. How would those sharing the video feel if a video of the last violent moments of a loved one’s life spread in the same manner?

jmayo

Manic Moran wrote: »

...
Note, for the record, Kiwi firearms laws are quite different from much of the world. They work off "Track the man, not the weapon". If a person is good to go, they can own pretty much what's on the permit, which can, in theory, include full-on machineguns. Firearms are generally not registered, only owners. That said, I have no idea what their position is on Aussies with permits.

I foresee this attack leading to huge changes in NZ gun laws like the Port Athur mass shooting changed things in Australia and Dunblane and Hungerford changed things in Britain.

It is not going to be like the US, where people just trot out stuff about the 2nd Amendment and move on to the next mass shooting/massacre.
Anyway that is different argument for another thread.

ebbsy wrote: »

If this happened in India or Africa etc nobody would give a ****e though.

Sadly there is some truth to this. When it happens in Western country, especially one with links to us, it becomes more localised to us.

weldoninhio wrote: »

Prob had mental health issues. Psychotic break, could be drug induced. Extreme paranoia etc.

Or just plain evil.
An no I am not religious but I do believe some people are just plain bad.

SoundsRight wrote: »

Britain has very strict gun control laws, and terrorists just kill people with knives, vans and homemade bombs.

The fundamental issue is the role of Islam in western society. Do they want to assimilate and accept our values or continue to drive a wedge between us?

Ah FFS.
Whilst I am no fan of islam, especially it's hardcore adherents like wahhabists, these people were minding their own business going about their daily lives.

If the fecker(s) wanted to have a go at the bad in islam book a flight to the Middle East and go join the kurds to really fight.
But no he just picked on normal innocent people in a sleepy backwater.

He is no better than the ISIS wantabees who he probably used as an excuse for this attack.
Two cheeks of the same ar**.

GinAndBitter

Looks like these guys had some military training, judging by what I've seen in the video.

Tacklebox

I find it strange why people are getting all political about this atrocity.

Left,right, alt whatever way it sways.

If one's a nutter and psychotic left or right don't mean ****...

People of all different ages going to a place of worship and ending up slaughtered is not political, racist or religiously motivated.

There was probably a lot of different race's in that mosque under the devotion of their respective religious beliefs.

It's driven by hatred and the lack of empathy compassion and love.

I'm not a fan of Abrahamic religion, because I don't believe in it.
But I know there was good people who lost their lives in NZ...

One of the most southern mosques on the planet, where these people thought they were safe but alas their dreams of a peaceful existence gone in a moment of madness.

So sad

Samuel Vimes

jmayo wrote: »

I foresee this attack leading to huge changes in NZ gun laws like the Port Athur mass shooting changed things in Australia and Dunblane and Hungerford changed things in Britain.

It is not going to be like the US, where people just trot out stuff about the 2nd Amendment and move on to the next mass shooting/massacre.
Anyway that is different argument for another thread.



Sadly there is some truth to this. When it happens in Western country, especially one with links to us, it becomes more localised to us.



Or just plain evil.
An no I am not religious but I do believe some people are just plain bad.



Ah FFS.
Whilst I am no fan of islam, especially it's hardcore adherents like wahhabists, these people were minding their own business going about their daily lives.

If the fecker(s) wanted to have a go at the bad in islam book a flight to the Middle East and go join the kurds to really fight.
But no he just picked on normal innocent people in a sleepy backwater.

He is no better than the ISIS wantabees who he probably used as an excuse for this attack.
Two cheeks of the same ar**.

I dont always agree with you but that is as fair and balanced a comment as I have seen or heard on this atrocity.
Well said.

Auntie Semite

Reading through the manifesto, it looks like he subscribes to what is known as 'Accelerationism'

He wants the 'right' to be censored in order to provoke them into responding.

Seems to want guns to be banned in the US so guns owners will fight back and ultimately cause a civil war.

Says Spyro the Dragon 3 (video game?) taught him about ethnonationalism.

Says Fortnite trained him to be a killer.

Says hes not a Nazi but aligns with China.

Very mixed up so far.

bluetractor

Possibly mentioned before, but main shooter was Australian of Irish English and Scottish ancestry.

The shooting was in New Zealand.

He reasoning? - he was Anti immigrant!

How does someone become that stupid?

Auntie Semite

GinAndBitter wrote: »

Looks like these guys had some military training, judging by what I've seen in the video.

Looks like it,

Auntie Semite

bluetractor wrote: »

Possibly mentioned before, but main shooter was Australian of Irish English and Scottish ancestry.

The shooting was in New Zealand.

He reasoning? - he was Anti immigrant!

How does someone become that stupid?

He addresses this in the manifesto.

The Moleman

Snow Garden wrote: »

He is a hero. The death toll could have been much more.

TallGlass wrote: »

What a hero.

It's a pity he couldn't find the trigger, but job well done. Safe to save he saved countless more lives.

There has been no mention on the BBC or any news channel I've been watching.

It might show up later in the day but any one with social media should spread the link - this young fella needs to be talked about.

I take the opposite view regarding finding the trigger. I'm glad the young man can live his life as someone who saved and didn't take one, regardless that the other guy is scum.

Admittedly, I would not have that view if the shooter had hurt anyone else afterward.

GinAndBitter

The Moleman wrote: »

There has been no mention on the BBC or any news channel I've been watching.

It might show up later in the day but any one with social media should spread the link - this young fella needs to be talked about.

I take the opposite view regarding finding the trigger. I'm glad the young man can live his life as someone who saved and didn't take one, regardless that the other guy is scum.

Admittedly, I would not have that view if the shooter had hurt anyone else afterward.

The video shows one guy attempt to disarm the shooter but he gets shot dead.

The Moleman

GinAndBitter wrote: »

Looks like these guys had some military training, judging by what I've seen in the video.

If he had been in the military himself that would surely have been in the news by now, but a person can get that type of training in boot camps like like are used to train actors for war movies.

Auntie Semite

He wants to provoke a civil war in the west, lets hope he doesn't succeed.