Wales v Ireland match thread

Shefwedfan

Ardillaun wrote: »

Furlong, Ryan, Ringrose and Stockdale should be safe after this year's 6N performance. Everybody else needs to prove they belong in the team. The decline in our out-halves is shocking. Quite apart from their poor kicking and passing, Murray doesn't seem to care and Sexton can't control himself.

Regarding the WC, Wales have replaced France in the perennial top 5 but I still don't see them as finalists.

We have gone from most people knowing about 30 of the players on plane to 4 after a bad result v Wales in Cardiff

Even France wouldn’t have enough players or be crazy enough to change a squad that much

nice_guy80

Just watching against the head

One penalty against us for sealing off the ball
In the next clip Wales do exactly the same thing and Ireland are penalised!

Squatter

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Just watching against the head

One penalty against us for sealing off the ball
In the next clip Wales do exactly the same thing and Ireland are penalised!

Rugby is a very complicated game. The more you watch, the less you know! And watching analysis programmes only makes things worse.

(Especially when it comes to understanding how sometimes passes where the ball appears to have gone yards forward aren't really forward passes after all!)

Shefwedfan

nice_guy80 wrote: »

Just watching against the head

One penalty against us for sealing off the ball
In the next clip Wales do exactly the same thing and Ireland are penalised!

If you go into it you will find loads


The scrum, my mate who likes to freeze and take pic's....he has the watsapp group full of issues from the game....


It was telling that Best asked the ref to come into Ireland dressing room at half time to explain what was going on at the scrum



Not to blame for the loss but it didnthelp

AbusesToilets

Exclamation Marc wrote: »

Sexton did not go from World Player of the Year to an awful player after five games. To suggest that players like him, O'Mahony, Leavy, Henderson, Murray etc need to 'prove they belong in the team' is a silly knee jerk reaction I would expect to see in a soccer forum.

The team struggled badly this year, we can all agree on that, but they did not suddenly become awful players in two months and the coaching ticket has to take some responsibility too for our poor performances. But its a team game at the end of the day and the team are generally responsible as a unit.

I'd say the opposite. Top teams are notable for the fact that players never feel they can rest on their laurels, that they are guaranteed a place. Teams like NZ or the Patriots in the NFL are successful because they demand constant performance and are ruthless with those who don't perform. There's always someone hungry, looking to step up.

It's a culture that should be inoculated in the Irish team.

Shefwedfan

AbusesToilets wrote: »

I'd say the opposite. Top teams are notable for the fact that players never feel they can rest on their laurels, that they are guaranteed a place. Teams like NZ or the Patriots in the NFL are successful because they demand constant performance and are ruthless with those who don't perform. There's always someone hungry, looking to step up.

It's a culture that should be inoculated in the Irish team.

NZ do not dump the core of the squad just because of 2 losses.



They had 2 bad games against SA last year, a bad showing against England and lost against Ireland.Will Reid etc all be dumped come the start of the Rugby championship?



They are ruthless in some aspects with fridge players but they always have a core which are protected. They also can be ruthless with fridge players because they have a larger base to pick from....



Example of this was when McCaw etc got a free season fully paid to relax....now was that good planning or ruthlessly dumping an older player?

AbusesToilets

Shefwedfan wrote: »

NZ do not dump the core of the squad just because of 2 losses.



They had 2 bad games against SA last year, a bad showing against England and lost against Ireland.Will Reid etc all be dumped come the start of the Rugby championship?



They are ruthless in some aspects with fridge players but they always have a core which are protected. They also can be ruthless with fridge players because they have a larger base to pick from....



Example of this was when McCaw etc got a free season fully paid to relax....now was that good planning or ruthlessly dumping an older player?

They don't drop people because they lose a game or two, but will absolutely drop a player who isn't playing well. Look at someone like Savea, was threatening the all time try scoring record not too long ago, isn't within an asses roar of the team now. You think he'd have been dropped from the Irish team in similar circumstances?

Shefwedfan

AbusesToilets wrote: »

They don't drop people because they lose a game or two, but will absolutely drop a player who isn't playing well. Look at someone like Savea, was threatening the all time try scoring record not too long ago, isn't within an asses roar of the team now. You think he'd have been dropped from the Irish team in similar circumstances?

You talking about the Savea who is playing for Toulon? Who the owner said they got the wrong player.....

All I will say is not a good example

sydthebeat

Shefwedfan wrote: »

You talking about the Savea who is playing for Toulon? Who the owner said they got the wrong player.....

All I will say is not a good example

he was cut from the NZ squad long before he joined toulon....

Shefwedfan

sydthebeat wrote: »

he was cut from the NZ squad long before he joined toulon....

I know he was, I was just checking it was same player

Savea was injured, got overweight and never got fully fit.....he was told to shape up by NZ so headed to France for money and is still over weight....

Now who exactly are we comparing him to in the current Irish team?

AbusesToilets

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I know he was, I was just checking it was same player

Savea was injured, got overweight and never got fully fit.....he was told to shape up by NZ so headed to France for money and is still over weight....

Now who exactly are we comparing him to in the current Irish team?

The point was that he lost form and was dropped by NZ, despite the fact he was the current leading try scorer. Other top players have been dumped in similar fashion, Dagg, Naholo, NMS.

Would the leading Irish try scorer being dropped in similar circumstances? We've been far too accommodating of players out of form

Mike Oxlong

I see Gatland has been saying he fancies the Welsh chances in the world cup as they'll be 1 of the fittest sides there...I seem to remember him quoted as saying the same thing after the Ireland game.....
Is he alluding to the fact that the Irish side isn't fit enough in his own sly way?

Former Former

AbusesToilets wrote: »

The point was that he lost form and was dropped by NZ, despite the fact he was the current leading try scorer. Other top players have been dumped in similar fashion, Dagg, Naholo, NMS.

Would the leading Irish try scorer being dropped in similar circumstances? We've been far too accommodating of players out of form

The difference is that NZ generally have someone equally good waiting to come in. We don't have the same luxury.

troyzer

Mike Oxlong wrote: »

I see Gatland has been saying he fancies the Welsh chances in the world cup as they'll be 1 of the fittest sides there...I seem to remember him quoted as saying the same thing after the Ireland game.....
Is he alluding to the fact that the Irish side isn't fit enough in his own sly way?

I wouldn't read too much into it. Ireland are one of the fittest teams around as well. But they're all ultra fit now (except France). You have to be. You're only getting an extra 1-2% at most these days.

Warren ball has already demanded an inhuman fitness and workrate of its players.

sydthebeat

Former Former wrote: »

The difference is that NZ generally have someone equally good waiting to come in. We don't have the same luxury.

Well I think you could easily argue that currently a good marmion is better than a poor Murray.

Mike Oxlong

Mike Oxlong wrote: »

I see Gatland has been saying he fancies the Welsh chances in the world cup as they'll be 1 of the fittest sides there...I seem to remember him quoted as saying the same thing after the Ireland game.....
Is he alluding to the fact that the Irish side isn't fit enough in his own sly way?

No, I think this is silly tbh. His comment before the game was a response to being asked if Wales were tired and over trained.

Not everything is about you/us/Ireland.

AbusesToilets

Former Former wrote: »

The difference is that NZ generally have someone equally good waiting to come in. We don't have the same luxury.

Debatable, I think that's been an easy excise to hide behind, rather than try different players. Certainly enough incidents of players with the "wrong face" for Joe's team, who've been outperforming their peers at provincial level.

You hear the same reasoning over and over, not proven at test level, don't work hard enough, can't grasp Joe's system etc. Class can be permanent, but all things being equal, I'll take the player who's in form, even if it's just for a season.

AbusesToilets

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Debatable, I think that's been an easy excise to hide behind, rather than try different players. Certainly enough incidents of players with the "wrong face" for Joe's team, who've been outperforming their peers at provincial level.

You hear the same reasoning over and over, not proven at test level, don't work hard enough, can't grasp Joe's system etc. Class can be permanent, but all things being equal, I'll take the player who's in form, even if it's just for a season.

We have plenty of good players. The constant refrain on here is "X player isn't ready" or "isn't experienced enough" or whatever. The halfbacks have just been so bad that we can't continue with them playing like that, it's impossible for a team to function like that. We'd have done a lot better on Saturday with Ross Byrne and Marmion starting.

c.p.w.g.w

Mike Oxlong wrote: »

I see Gatland has been saying he fancies the Welsh chances in the world cup as they'll be 1 of the fittest sides there...I seem to remember him quoted as saying the same thing after the Ireland game.....
Is he alluding to the fact that the Irish side isn't fit enough in his own sly way?

I'd like to see the total minutes played by our 15 at club level compared to the Wales 15. I know last year ringrose and sexton seemed to play little pro14.

Maybe our guys are be rested too much, it would be interesting to see the numbers. We looked to fatigue faster than the English and were way off the pace in the Welsh game.

Tigerandahalf

Gatland made interesting comments about the psyche and character of the different nationalities he has coached - Ireland, Wasps and Wales and then the Lions of course.

He mentioned how the English players had a natural confidence/cockiness, how the Irish players always spoke up and needed their voice/input to be heard whereas the Welsh players just do what they are told and respond very well to it and would run through a brick wall if asked to do it.

He also mentioned how the army/naval services in the UK have a high Welsh takeup, so it was an interesting take on things.

Wales have always been super fit under Gatland. He took them out to Poland for camps.

I don't think fitness is Ireland's problem though. Playing that possession/rucking game requires a high fitness level. Our backline is just not producing. Having seen Aki at 12 I don't think he is the answer. He isn't a good enough passer.

It is a shame Sexton wasn't tried at 12 with Carberry at 10. It would give us a lot more playmaking options. I don't think we have any other 12 in that mould except maybe Rory Scannell. Robbie Henshaw should be capable of it but is used more often as a battering ram.

ebbsy

Could the fact that the coach is leaving be part of the problem ?

Sangre

The British Eggchasers podcast were of the view that Ireland were very unlucky with the ref and he was quite inconsistent when penalising Ireland. However, that wouldn't have changed the outcome of the game and Wales were deserved winners. That was my impression of the game when watching in the pub so interesting that a mostly neutral crowd thought the same.

tbm

The funniest bit of overreaction I've read the last few days is that our problem is that we beat New Zealand in November....

The best analysis of our current position I've listened to has come from Fiona Steed and BOD, both on on OTB.

troyzer

tbm wrote: »

The funniest bit of overreaction I've read the last few days is that our problem is that we beat New Zealand in November....

The best analysis of our current position I've listened to has come from Fiona Steed and BOD, both on on OTB.

I like Steed but she's VERY one eyed.

crisco10

Sangre wrote: »

The British Eggchasers podcast were of the view that Ireland were very unlucky with the ref and he was quite inconsistent when penalising Ireland. However, that wouldn't have changed the outcome of the game and Wales were deserved winners. That was my impression of the game when watching in the pub so interesting that a mostly neutral crowd thought the same.

Would generally agree with this.

I defo thought that at the time we were getting all the 50/50s agaisnt us and even some of the 65/35!. EG AWJ not rolling in first half being given as scrum, CJ does similar in second half and it's a penalty. Also Healy's penalty for rucking off the ball was incredibly harsh.

All of Wales scores were from penalties (even the try was penalty advantage, for a pretty harsh Ryan in the side). If it had been less than a 10 point game, you would think the ref had a bearing on the outcome. However, the scale of the defeat points to other issues.

aloooof

crisco10 wrote: »

Would generally agree with this.

I defo thought that at the time we were getting all the 50/50s agaisnt us and even some of the 65/35!. EG AWJ not rolling in first half being given as scrum, CJ does similar in second half and it's a penalty. Also Healy's penalty for rucking off the ball was incredibly harsh.

All of Wales scores were from penalties (even the try was penalty advantage, for a pretty harsh Ryan in the side). If it had been less than a 10 point game, you would think the ref had a bearing on the outcome. However, the scale of the defeat points to other issues.

Agreed. 8 Penalties in the first half, I think was the stat. That's probably the biggest number of penalties we've conceded in any half of rugby under Schmidt. We've gone 2 full games without conceding that many in the past.

Related (and I'm guessing here), but I'd wager the 6 penalties Wales kicked is probably the highest amount we've conceded under Schmidt as well? It's not often we conceded 25+ points while only conceding one try.

But overall, Wales by far deserved winners.

Tigerandahalf

It is sometimes brought up that it is not a good idea to have a SH referee doing big games in the NH as they have different interpretations of the rules.

The maul is a good example where the ref gave no chance for Ire to get going and was calling 'once' straight away.

Saying that the above situation will happen in a WC so might as well be forewarned.

ionadnapokot

Sangre wrote: »

The British Eggchasers podcast were of the view that Ireland were very unlucky with the ref and he was quite inconsistent when penalising Ireland. However, that wouldn't have changed the outcome of the game and Wales were deserved winners. That was my impression of the game when watching in the pub so interesting that a mostly neutral crowd thought the same.

Would like to post my perspective from sitting in the stands. I haven’t watched the game back & prob never will.
Most of what im saying is my gut feeling and some might call it emotional guff.
You have been warned!

What really hit home was the reaction of the Welsh fans around us in the stadium and in the pubs, during and after the game. They we’re embarrassed for us.
I could honestly sense their discomfort at our discomfort! When Sexton duffed that restart one of the Welsh lads put a hand on my shoulder. A few others at different times looked around and gave us the sad eyes! Some of them couldn’t even look us in the eyes.
No triumphalism at our expense. No Banter. Just pity.

This game out of all the losses under Joe is primarily on the players.
Irelands performance just wasn’t acceptable. & the abuse of the officials was a disgrace. Thats never acceptable & the ref is not the reason Ireland lost.

This is Ireland’s 9th loss under Joe in 6N & RWC matches.
Each time I dwell on these defeats I arrive to same old conclusion - when we’re not at our aggressive best from the off and the opposition get an early try, we lack the rugby skills and smarts to regroup. We practically capitulate under this pressure.

I’m not trying to be negative for the sake of it. Im trying to put some reason to the malaise. I hope that performance to be the catalyst for change with Staff and Players. Unfortunately for Joe and Ireland, he has run out road and he is culpable in that.

My feeling is that Ireland now finds itself back in a similar hole to 2013 and 2007. It had reached it’s glorious peak in 2018 and is now in free fall.

Without Toner in the saddle and a good start in a QF, Ireland are in for another humbling. The crisis of confidence has gotten so bad I feel like Scotland and even Japan will fancy doing a number on us. Score a try early and Ireland will crumble like burnt toast.

Will try to post up some coherent stats on the previous losses. Will use them as a reference point to curb my hopes I had 4 short/long months ago.

Will finish this negative assessment with an acknowledgement of the U20’s success. Hopefully, some of those guys make it to the senior side and have the talent and mental strength to forge another Grand Slam side with Furlong, Ryan, Larmour, Leavey, Carbery and Stockdale.

ionadnapokot

Of Ireland’s 9 losses under Joe in 6N & RWC matches.
7 of those games the opposition got the first try
5 of those games the opposition scored a try in the first 20 mins.

Ireland have won 1 game after conceding the first try v Scotland 16

Discounting Scotland, Italy, Canada, Romania from stats:
21 games 8 losses 1 draw
57.14% win rate
Ireland scored the first try in all of those wins bar France ‘18 & ‘16. Late French tries in both.
0% win rate when first conceding a try in the 1st half.

For perspective, Wales came from behind twice in this championship after first conceding a try in the 1st half (Fran & Eng).

6N 14 Champions
L Eng -KEARNEY 41' Converted

6N 15 Champions
W France - Taofinua 70' missed
L Wales - S Williams 61 m

RWC 15 QF
L Arg - Moroni 3' Converted

6N 16 3rd
D Wales - MURRAY 26 C
L France - Médard 69 C
L England - MURRAY 45 C
W Scotland - HOGG 19' C

6N 17 2nd
L Scotland - Hogg 8' C
L Wales - North 19' m

6N 18 Grand Slam Champions
W France - Thomas 72' m

6N 19 3rd
L Eng - May 2 min
L Wales - Parkes 2 min

aloooof

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Irelands performance just wasn’t acceptable. & the abuse of the officials was a disgrace. Thats never acceptable & the ref is not the reason Ireland lost.

Was this particularly bad? Like yourself, I haven't re-watched it but I don't recall anything particularly egregious. I know it was reported they spoke to him at HT. Tho if anything particularly bad did occur, then agreed, it's not acceptable.

ionadnapokot wrote: »

I’m not trying to be negative for the sake of it. Im trying to put some reason to the malaise. I hope that performance to be the catalyst for change with Staff and Players. Unfortunately for Joe and Ireland, he has run out road and he is culpable in that.

My feeling is that Ireland now finds itself back in a similar hole to 2013 and 2007. It had reached it’s glorious peak in 2018 and is now in free fall.

Without Toner in the saddle and a good start in a QF, Ireland are in for another humbling. The crisis of confidence has gotten so bad I feel like Scotland and even Japan will fancy doing a number on us. Score a try early and Ireland will crumble like burnt toast.

On this point, one positive going towards the World Cup is that we know this team can perform when they target specific games. Post-Chicago and November against NZ, it was mentioned a number of times that they specifically targeted those games.

The fixture schedule for the RWC means that they can target both the Scotland game and the QF, most likely SA so I still think we have a shot at reaching a Semi-Final, tho it is going to require a huge turnaround in performance.

(Cue SA to beat NZ in the pool....)

ionadnapokot

aloooof wrote: »

Was this particularly bad? Like yourself, I haven't re-watched it but I don't recall anything particularly egregious. I know it was reported they spoke to him at HT. Tho if anything particularly bad did occur, then agreed, it's not acceptable.


On this point, one positive going towards the World Cup is that we know this team can perform when they target specific games. Post-Chicago and November against NZ, it was mentioned a number of times that they specifically targeted those games.

The fixture schedule for the RWC means that they can target both the Scotland game and the QF, most likely SA so I still think we have a shot at reaching a Semi-Final, tho it is going to require a huge turnaround in performance.

(Cue SA to beat NZ in the pool....)

Personally saw Sexton eating the touch judge out of it behind the goal for the pen at the end of the first half.
He then ran after him and you could see the head bobbing as he shouted in his ear after him.
Cant say for certain that he swore at him. But he's not even the captain!!
Sexton needs a reboot up his....

I admire you been able to see a silver lining in theses clouds!

vetinari

I do think the ref was pretty bad. That gets lost when you lose by 18 points.
Wales did well in keeping the scoreboard ticking over with the penalties.
Did they threaten our line again after the try they scored?
I don't remember much last gasp defending by Ireland, just concession of lots of kickable penalties.

The scrum penalty at the end of the first half was a classic example of a ref being biased against you.
He gave the penalty after the ball had left the scrum with both packs still up and not collapsed.
Think it was given for wheeling. Vast majority of refs wouldn't have given that decision.
There are refs who tell teams to use the ball when both packs are collapsed!

Wales were the better team on the day but the ref certainly helped them.
Combine that with them being very good at defending and they won easily.

sydthebeat

ebbsy wrote: »

Could the fact that the coach is leaving be part of the problem ?

hardly..... seeing as they won the grand slam........

The Lost Sheep

vetinari wrote: »

I do think the ref was pretty bad. That gets lost when you lose by 18 points.
Wales did well in keeping the scoreboard ticking over with the penalties.
Did they threaten our line again after the try they scored?
I don't remember much last gasp defending by Ireland, just concession of lots of kickable penalties.

The scrum penalty at the end of the first half was a classic example of a ref being biased against you.
He gave the penalty after the ball had left the scrum with both packs still up and not collapsed.
Think it was given for wheeling. Vast majority of refs wouldn't have given that decision.
There are refs who tell teams to use the ball when both packs are collapsed!

Wales were the better team on the day but the ref certainly helped them.
Combine that with them being very good at defending and they won easily.

Very wrong to say ref was biased against Ireland. Extremely unfair.
Many refs at pro level do say use ball when scrum has collapsed because that is procedure allowed in professional rugby to speed up the game unless there is injury risk/need to stop game to penalise a player/talk to player.
Wales didnt need to threaten the irish line again. They had no need to

Shefwedfan

ionadnapokot wrote: »

Personally saw Sexton eating the touch judge out of it behind the goal for the pen at the end of the first half.
He then ran after him and you could see the head bobbing as he shouted in his ear after him.
Cant say for certain that he swore at him. But he's not even the captain!!
Sexton needs a reboot up his....

I admire you been able to see a silver lining in theses clouds!

You can't say for certain? how sure or not sure are you that he didn't swear?

vetinari

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Very wrong to say ref was biased against Ireland. Extremely unfair.
Many refs at pro level do say use ball when scrum has collapsed because that is procedure allowed in professional rugby to speed up the game unless there is injury risk/need to stop game to penalise a player/talk to player.
Wales didnt need to threaten the irish line again. They had no need to

I have no issue with a ref saying use ball if the scrum have collapses.
My issue is with the ref calling a penalty when the scrum hasn't collapsed and the ball has come out of the scrum. At that point, it looks like favoritism.
Getting 18 points from penalties is definitely on the high side for a game.
Ireland would still probably have lost but it would have been a closer game without some of the easy penalties the ref gave Wales.

The Lost Sheep

vetinari wrote: »

I have no issue with a ref saying use ball if the scrum have collapses.
My issue is with the ref calling a penalty when the scrum hasn't collapsed and the ball has come out of the scrum. At that point, it looks like favoritism.
Getting 18 points from penalties is definitely on the high side for a game.
Ireland would still probably have lost but it would have been a closer game without some of the easy penalties the ref gave Wales.

Scrums can have illegal activity and the ball will come out of the scrum and the scrum wont have collapsed. That isnt favouritism. It is correct sanctioning of illegal actions.
There is very regularly teams scoring 18 points from penalties. 6 shots at goal.

Mike Oxlong

https://extra.ie/2019/03/19/sport/rugby/ireland-rugby-current-generation?fbclid=

Interesting idea from Rog... saying that Joe coaches so well that things nearly always go to plan onfield... but when they don't...they players can't think on the fly and can't execute a plan b of their own creation...

The Rape of Lucretia

Mike Oxlong wrote: »

https://extra.ie/2019/03/19/sport/rugby/ireland-rugby-current-generation?fbclid=

Interesting idea from Rog... saying that Joe coaches so well that things nearly always go to plan onfield... but when they don't...they players can't think on the fly and can't execute a plan b of their own creation...

Dont think his point hits the mark though. It suggests that when things arent going to plan onfield, its because the plan is wrong. And so if players were comfortable changing or tweaking the plan, then things might go better.
But thats not the case. When things are going poorly, it is not due to the plan. Its due to the execution of the plan. Some then say change the players. But that is a mistake too. Invariably, the second string is inferior to the first selection, so even less likely to make the plan work. The best thing is to stick with the best you have got.

Results this 6N went less perfectly than ideally envisaged mainly due to player's injuries (or rather, the coincidence of several of them), and good play from the opposition.
Those still seeing the illusion of Murray and Sexton having been off form, are not seeing the performance of the forwards correctly, whose low level led directly to limiting the effectiveness of our scrum half and opening half.

Dubinusa

Nobody stepped up, to say to the players " relax, let's get the ball and do our thing". Massive leadership void against England and Wales. Even against Italy.
I think there was no cool heads to temper the team and the emotions.
I thought they were shell shocked against England and rudderless against Wales.
The level of experience in our side and yet they panicked.
England kicked into space, won collisions and played on their terms.
We didn't really have much of a breakthrough until Cronin darted straight up from a ruck and put Cooney over. There was no variation to our play. It was like banging your head against a wall over and over.
Against Wales, we chased the game and they were happy to sit back and absorb us. They starved us of momentum and played on their terms. We were unable to switch up and put them into uncomfortable positions.
Going into the rwc, it would probably be foolish not to adjust things and keep the opposition guessing.
When the opposition knows what's coming, it easier to deal with.

AbusesToilets

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Dont think his point hits the mark though. It suggests that when things arent going to plan onfield, its because the plan is wrong. And so if players were comfortable changing or tweaking the plan, then things might go better.
But thats not the case. When things are going poorly, it is not due to the plan. Its due to the execution of the plan. Some then say change the players. But that is a mistake too. Invariably, the second string is inferior to the first selection, so even less likely to make the plan work. The best thing is to stick with the best you have got.

Results this 6N went less perfectly than ideally envisaged mainly due to player's injuries (or rather, the coincidence of several of them), and good play from the opposition.
Those still seeing the illusion of Murray and Sexton having been off form, are not seeing the performance of the forwards correctly, whose low level led directly to limiting the effectiveness of our scrum half and opening half.

Did the forwards force Murray to be glacially slow getting the ball away from rucks, or cause him to fire ball at players feet? Did they cause Sexton to kick out on the full or Chuck a pass into the stands. They've been in crap from, no dissembling is gonna change that.

Tim Robbins

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

A ball being played from a collapsed scrum isnt a marginal call. They happen all the time in pro rugby. Nothing marginal from it

Exactly. However Ireland - in the pro game - were penalised for Healy collapsing it. Wales get 3 points.
Another day, another Ref - that's play on.

Former Observer

SOME PLAYER RATINGS:

Tadhg Beirne - Offered little reason to think he should be picked ahead of alternatives. Weak in contact, poor body language, noticeably meek aura 3/10

Jordan Larmour - Fresh faced, pint-sized Jordan Lamour was responsible for several examples of poor decision making and nearly botched his easy run in for the try. Needs to take a lot of learnings from the game (positional awareness, fielding of high-kicks/grubbers etc.) or could find himself phased out. 3/10

Jack Conan - Another poor showing from Conan who is clearly not international standard. 3/10

Jacob Stockdale Great catch of the ball from Sexton's crossfield kick. Sad to see him darkening his hair with dye when he is naturally blonde. Wouldn't be surprised to see him putting on the fake tan next season. 7/10

CJ Stander - South African U20s Captain CJ Stander can be heard yelling instructions from the back of the scrum in an obnoxious manner that noticeably frightens meeker players like Tadhg Beirne. 4/10

Peter O’Mahony - Munster Captain and Ireland legend Peter O'Mahony brings grit and steely eyed determination to every game. Hungry for work and a lineout monster, Pete gets a 7/10

Rob Kearney: Great positional awareness, provides safe ball after going into contact 8/10

Conor Murray - This boy has it all, the looks, a good mental attitude, and at 6 2' he is a giant of a scrum half. A bit "glacial" so I'm only giving him a 7/10

troyzer

Former Observer wrote: »

SOME PLAYER RATINGS:

Tadhg Beirne - Offered little reason to think he should be picked ahead of alternatives. Weak in contact, poor body language, noticeably meek aura 3/10

Jordan Larmour - Fresh faced, pint-sized Jordan Lamour was responsible for several examples of poor decision making and nearly botched his easy run in for the try. Needs to take a lot of learnings from the game (positional awareness, fielding of high-kicks/grubbers etc.) or could find himself phased out. 3/10

Jack Conan - Another poor showing from Conan who is clearly not international standard. 3/10

Jacob Stockdale Great catch of the ball from Sexton's crossfield kick. Sad to see him darkening his hair with dye when he is naturally blonde. Wouldn't be surprised to see him putting on the fake tan next season. 7/10

CJ Stander - South African U20s Captain CJ Stander can be heard yelling instructions from the back of the scrum in an obnoxious manner that noticeably frightens meeker players like Tadhg Beirne. 4/10

Peter O’Mahony - Munster Captain and Ireland legend Peter O'Mahony brings grit and steely eyed determination to every game. Hungry for work and a lineout monster, Pete gets a 7/10

Rob Kearney: Great positional awareness, provides safe ball after going into contact 8/10

Conor Murray - This boy has it all, the looks, a good mental attitude, and at 6 2' he is a giant of a scrum half. A bit "glacial" so I'm only giving him a 7/10

You nearly had me there for a moment.

Mike Oxlong

troyzer wrote: »

You nearly had me there for a moment.

You read his report on TB and nearly jizzed in your pants

The Rape of Lucretia

AbusesToilets wrote: »

Did the forwards force Murray to be glacially slow getting the ball away from rucks, or cause him to fire ball at players feet? Did they cause Sexton to kick out on the full or Chuck a pass into the stands. They've been in crap from, no dissembling is gonna change that.

Generally yes. Pass speed at rucks is very dependent on the quality of the ball delivered, the protection around the ruck, and the rest of the team being in position to play the called move or offer options. Murray did no just say slow down, as if he couldnt be bothered, or woke up one morning without the skill to pass the ball.
And, yes, bad ball, a struggling team with poor possession, does force (it isnt the cause, sure, he still has to make the mistake, but the pressure, disruption, or lack of time, reduce the probability that they will execute correctly) a player to mistakes they would probably not commit if the pack was controlling the ball and opposition.
Neither were crap. People are really kidding themselves, looking at the matter very superficially, or just looking for scape goats, if they think both Irish half backs, for years widely considered world class, for 5 games in a row, just happened to forget how to do it, and played badly of their own accord. It just does not stand up to reason.

hahashake

Last time I say this I swear but Gatland et al turning Parkes into a comfortable international never ceases to amaze me. Was arguably one of the better players on the park on Saturday.

is_that_so

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Generally yes. Pass speed at rucks is very dependent on the quality of the ball delivered, the protection around the ruck, and the rest of the team being in position to play the called move or offer options. Murray did no just say slow down, as if he couldnt be bothered, or woke up one morning without the skill to pass the ball.
And, yes, bad ball, a struggling team with poor possession, does force (it isnt the cause, sure, he still has to make the mistake, but the pressure, disruption, or lack of time, reduce the probability that they will execute correctly) a player to mistakes they would probably not commit if the pack was controlling the ball and opposition.
Neither were crap. People are really kidding themselves, looking at the matter very superficially, or just looking for scape goats, if they think both Irish half backs, for years widely considered world class, for 5 games in a row, just happened to forget how to do it, and played badly of their own accord. It just does not stand up to reason.

Someone suggested to me that Murray has not got full free movement back, especially with kicks. Even with the forwards at a low level of performance, those who substituted him were firing the ball out a whole lot faster. He remains a good player but one very much out of form. Therein lies the concern for most people, aside from the severe disappointment at how we played in the 6N; will the RWC squad contain names we all know or players in form?

Shefwedfan

I had the joys of listening to Andy Dunne in the car for last hour...

He is just giving out for the sake of giving out. No real point made at all.

It is Joe fault, the players should all be running around like the Barbarians....loss of form??? no player can lose form. Kicking the ball out on the full is Joe fault.....hilarious really

He made valid points a few months ago, now he just thinks going off in tangents will get more listeners or something......

Riskymove

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I had the joys of listening to Andy Dunne in the car for last hour...

......

who is Andy Dunne?