All Ireland Senior Hurling (Liam Mccarthy Cup) 2019

tibruit

Field east wrote: »

This is’nt even splitting hairs - it is splitting hair molecules. Please do’nt go as far as splitting protons in hair molecules.
The rule refers only about contact with the head by any part of the body by another player or his Hurley is a red card. It says absolutely nothing about the player in receipt of the contact to the head. Even if Barrett stayed standing and bust into singing a verse of ‘ The Rose Of Mooncoin ‘ it would not have changed anything re the decision made

Sure that`s not what I`m saying at all. I accept that by the letter of the law it was a red card offence. But he didn`t elbow Barrett in the jaw as you said at an earlier point and Barrett wasn`t injured. Hogan acknowledged that there was contact but not with his elbow. Some one else ridiculed this and put up a photo to support the ridicule but the photo clearly supports exactly what Hogan said. There are a few on here who want to demonise Hogan and are trying to portray the challenge as being far worse than it actually was.

There were any number of head high challenges that went unpunished this year including one on Hogan himself in the Cork game that Owens deemed a yellow. Barretts earlier reckless high pull on Hogans head from behind, resulted in an actual injury, but Owens was unsighted on this because he was behind and to the left of it. If Owens had asked the video ref to give an opinion on that challenge, he may well have also indicated red. It`s ironic that Barrett busted Hogans nose with a high and reckless challenge, but Hogan didn`t injure Barrett at all with his high challenge and Hogan gets the line and Barrett after some theatrics becomes the hero.

teachinggal123

I’m really disappointed with the KK supporters on here.

It was a 100% red card and KK would have been hammered either way.

Build a bridge lads ... Hogan deserved the red. Maybe the KK bitterness comes from the realization that the good times are over for ye for the foreseeable future and this could be your last all Ireland for a long time.

the_pen_turner

tibruit wrote: »

Sure that`s not what I`m saying at all. I accept that by the letter of the law it was a red card offence. But he didn`t elbow Barrett in the jaw as you said at an earlier point and Barrett wasn`t injured. Hogan acknowledged that there was contact but not with his elbow. Some one else ridiculed this and put up a photo to support the ridicule but the photo clearly supports exactly what Hogan said. There are a few on here who want to demonise Hogan and are trying to portray the challenge as being far worse than it actually was.

There were any number of head high challenges that went unpunished this year including one on Hogan himself in the Cork game that Owens deemed a yellow. Barretts earlier reckless high pull on Hogans head from behind, resulted in an actual injury, but Owens was unsighted on this because he was behind and to the left of it. If Owens had asked the video ref to give an opinion on that challenge, he may well have also indicated red. It`s ironic that Barrett busted Hogans nose with a high and reckless challenge, but Hogan didn`t injure Barrett at all with his high challenge and Hogan gets the line and Barrett after some theatrics becomes the hero.

the diference is that barrett tried to get the ball and had no intent to hit hogan.
hogan made no atempt to get the ball and every attempt to hit barrett.

opinionated3

Theatrics is definitely sneaking it's way into gaa games. Paudie Maher made an absolute meal of the challenge from Tony Kelly earlier in the year which resulted in a red for Tony as well. I think it's an issue that the gaa doesn't want to talk about or even acknowledge cos it doesn't fit in with their whole image of the toughest fastest game in the world, and the "this isn't soccer" brigade.

tibruit

the_pen_turner wrote: »

the diference is that barrett tried to get the ball and had no intent to hit hogan.
hogan made no atempt to get the ball and every attempt to hit barrett.

He didn`t get the ball, nor could he have without striking Hogan in the head, there was a resultant injury and the rules are clear on this. Reckless causing injury is a straight red. The problem with the video ref is that it isn`t clear what his input is. Is he constantly in the refs ear or is he only asked intermittently for an opinion. If the latter is the case, then this can only lead to inconsistent decisions like we had on Sunday. If Owens had been fully aware of what happened in the first incident, one would hope he would give Barrett the benefit of the doubt and a yellow and then he would have also been lenient on Hogan afterwards once he`d established that Barrett wasn`t actually injured.

Injuryprone

tibruit wrote: »

It`s ironic that Barrett busted Hogans nose with a high and reckless challenge, but Hogan didn`t injure Barrett at all with his high challenge and Hogan gets the line and Barrett after some theatrics becomes the hero.

You can be injured without drawing blood you know. In fact I'd say the much more serious injuries that people are worried about are ones that don't draw blood ie concussion/neck injuries.

Barrett went for the ball, got it wrong, nicked Hogan on the nose. If the hurley met the visor at a slightly different angle that stopped it from hitting his nose, it would've been a free and no more about it. But no, some people see a bit of blood and it's the end of the world.

For me Barrett's foul was a yellow, Hogan's was a definite red.

tibruit

Injuryprone wrote: »

You can be injured without drawing blood you know. In fact I'd say the much more serious injuries that people are worried about are ones that don't draw blood ie concussion/neck injuries.

Barrett went for the ball, got it wrong, nicked Hogan on the nose. If the hurley met the visor at a slightly different angle that stopped it from hitting his nose, it would've been a free and no more about it. But no, some people see a bit of blood and it's the end of the world.

For me Barrett's foul was a yellow, Hogan's was a definite red.

Take your first line and reapply it to the second incident. Hogan went for Barrett (he was perfectly entitled to shoulder him out over the line), he got it wrong, he caught Barretts face guard. The only difference is that Hogan was actually injured.

rebs23

And on it goes....

bruschi

tibruit wrote: »

He didn`t get the ball, nor could he have without striking Hogan in the head, there was a resultant injury and the rules are clear on this. Reckless causing injury is a straight red. The problem with the video ref is that it isn`t clear what his input is. Is he constantly in the refs ear or is he only asked intermittently for an opinion. If the latter is the case, then this can only lead to inconsistent decisions like we had on Sunday. If Owens had been fully aware of what happened in the first incident, one would hope he would give Barrett the benefit of the doubt and a yellow and then he would have also been lenient on Hogan afterwards once he`d established that Barrett wasn`t actually injured.

it is astounding that this is still actually going on. the rule book does not state that reckless causing injury is a straight red. You are fabricating things now. Also, why are Kilkenny fans harping on about a video ref as if it is some kind of fact? Ye are completely speculating here and there is zero evidence that Owens got instructions over the red. The only people criticising the delay in the red card issuing is coming from Kilkenny. Most other people are actually praising him for taking his time and ensuring he didnt rush a major influential decision on a game.

Injuries or lack of them have no bearing on fouls or cards. You can get absolutely spilt open and be profusely bleeding and have to leave the game and it may not even be a foul. Had Hogan not a modified faceguard, there is a good chance he wouldnt have even got a nick at all. Connecting with the helmet or faceguard does not necessarily mean it is a straight red regardless of how it happened. Barrett went to play the ball and missed. Hogan went to shoulder Barrett and not only missed, but raised his arm to ensure he did strike him. One had intention to play the ball, one had intention to play the man and did so illegally. The incidents are absolutely chalk and cheese, and its crazy that 4 days on, it is still going.

PhuckHugh22

No talk of Conor Fogartys tackle on Brendan Maher which was essentially identical to Cathal Barretts tackle. Only difference is Maher kept his cool and didn't try and bury Fogarty at the next possible exchange.
Like Barrett's tackle also should have been a yellow. But I guess that one evened out.

Powerhouse

tibruit wrote: »

Sure that`s not what I`m saying at all. I accept that by the letter of the law it was a red card offence. But he didn`t elbow Barrett in the jaw as you said at an earlier point and Barrett wasn`t injured. Hogan acknowledged that there was contact but not with his elbow. Some one else ridiculed this and put up a photo to support the ridicule but the photo clearly supports exactly what Hogan said. There are a few on here who want to demonise Hogan and are trying to portray the challenge as being far worse than it actually was.

There were any number of head high challenges that went unpunished this year including one on Hogan himself in the Cork game that Owens deemed a yellow. Barretts earlier reckless high pull on Hogans head from behind, resulted in an actual injury, but Owens was unsighted on this because he was behind and to the left of it. If Owens had asked the video ref to give an opinion on that challenge, he may well have also indicated red. It`s ironic that Barrett busted Hogans nose with a high and reckless challenge, but Hogan didn`t injure Barrett at all with his high challenge and Hogan gets the line and Barrett after some theatrics becomes the hero.

A couple of points: people keep talking about the incident being a sending-off "to the letter of the law". What else is there? It's either a rule or it's not. The occasion should make no difference.

Secondly it doesn't really matter whether Hogan hit Barrett with an elbow or forearm or even if it was shoulder. That's missing the point. The tackle impacted on his head and it was a red card, and would be a red card in any field sport because it is dangerous.

Tackles in other games or tackles in the same game that the referee might not have seen are irrelevant. Referees should not base decisions on trying to mirror a mistaken decision a referee might have made a month or a minute earlier. Of course you'll always have whataboutery among supporters who don't like a decision but you cannot legislate a sport in that manner. Ger Aylward got a goal against Galway last year after about 13 steps and it was mistakenly allowed. Does that mean that the steps rule is to be ignored forever more?

Referees make mistakes and people accept that and move on. Sending off Hogan was not one of them as Barry Kelly and Brian Gavin (who, unlike the average supporter, will have attended many meetings where rule implementation would have been discussed in a proper technical manner) have agreed. Hurling would be a very violent sport indeed if this kind of tackle were to be allowed and not red-carded. It is a pity that the incident happened but it was a red card.

tibruit

bruschi wrote: »

it is astounding that this is still actually going on. the rule book does not state that reckless causing injury is a straight red. You are fabricating things now. Also, why are Kilkenny fans harping on about a video ref as if it is some kind of fact? Ye are completely speculating here and there is zero evidence that Owens got instructions over the red. The only people criticising the delay in the red card issuing is coming from Kilkenny. Most other people are actually praising him for taking his time and ensuring he didnt rush a major influential decision on a game.

Injuries or lack of them have no bearing on fouls or cards. You can get absolutely spilt open and be profusely bleeding and have to leave the game and it may not even be a foul. Had Hogan not a modified faceguard, there is a good chance he wouldnt have even got a nick at all. Connecting with the helmet or faceguard does not necessarily mean it is a straight red regardless of how it happened. Barrett went to play the ball and missed. Hogan went to shoulder Barrett and not only missed, but raised his arm to ensure he did strike him. One had intention to play the ball, one had intention to play the man and did so illegally. The incidents are absolutely chalk and cheese, and its crazy that 4 days on, it is still going.

Rule 5.32 To inflict an injury recklessly on an opponent by means other than those stated above.

Penalty: Order offender off.

Barrett was reckless and caused an injury. I don`t think there`s a whole lot of difference between the two tackles. Players are entitled to some duty of care. Barrett wasn`t injured. Apparently there`s an appeal going in for Hogan. I can`t see any grounds for it unless the final decision was made by someone other than the referee or linesman. You need to get over yourself because it`s going to go on for a while yet.

PhuckHugh22

tibruit wrote: »

Rule 5.32 To inflict an injury recklessly on an opponent by means other than those stated above.

Penalty: Order offender off.

Barrett was reckless and caused an injury. I don`t think there`s a whole lot of difference between the two tackles. Players are entitled to some duty of care. Barrett wasn`t injured. Apparently there`s an appeal going in for Hogan. I can`t see any grounds for it unless the final decision was made by someone other than the referee or linesman. You need to get over yourself because it`s going to go on for a while yet.

Should Conor Fogarty also have been sent off then in your opinion? It was an almost identical challenge.

Rasputin11

opinionated3 wrote: »

Theatrics is definitely sneaking it's way into gaa games. Paudie Maher made an absolute meal of the challenge from Tony Kelly earlier in the year which resulted in a red for Tony as well. I think it's an issue that the gaa doesn't want to talk about or even acknowledge cos it doesn't fit in with their whole image of the toughest fastest game in the world, and the "this isn't soccer" brigade.

Both men went down, Paudie was up off the ground well before Kelly. Which would indicate that there was a strong impact at least. Eoin Murphy went down very dramatically after a tackle from Forde, contorted himself with impressive agility.

1984baby

Appeal story is b******t.
Statement from KK County Board.

https://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/sport/472751/right-now-kilkenny-have-no-plans-to-appeal-hogan-red-card.html

PhuckHugh22

1984baby wrote: »

Appeal story is b******t.
Statement from KK County Board.

https://www.kilkennypeople.ie/news/sport/472751/right-now-kilkenny-have-no-plans-to-appeal-hogan-red-card.html

You sure about that there is a lad in the Kilkenny thread claiming he has a "reliable source" that Owens was up to some dodgy dealings and he was 80% sure it would be rescinded.

I swear the ****e that gets sprouted around here at times is worthy of a comedy sketch series.

Field east

tibruit wrote: »

He didn`t get the ball, nor could he have without striking Hogan in the head, there was a resultant injury and the rules are clear on this. Reckless causing injury is a straight red. The problem with the video ref is that it isn`t clear what his input is. Is he constantly in the refs ear or is he only asked intermittently for an opinion. If the latter is the case, then this can only lead to inconsistent decisions like we had on Sunday. If Owens had been fully aware of what happened in the first incident, one would hope he would give Barrett the benefit of the doubt and a yellow and then he would have also been lenient on Hogan afterwards once he`d established that Barrett wasn`t actually injured.

Would appreciate if some objective boardee would clarify the following as per GAA rules. If one player carries out any one of the following actions on another player is the outcome different if the player was hurt as against not being hurt?

- a chop down on a player on a solo run, either hitting hand or Hurley
- pulling on the ball in the air and hitting a players hand and who is attempting to catch the ball
- pulling on the ball that is between a players legs thus hitting a players ankle
- shouldering a player into the chest
- etc
-etc
-etc
-etc

tibruit

Powerhouse wrote: »

A couple of points: people keep talking about the incident being a sending-off "to the letter of the law". What else is there? It's either a rule or it's not. The occasion should make no difference.

Secondly it doesn't really matter whether Hogan hit Barrett with an elbow or forearm or even if it was shoulder. That's missing the point. The tackle impacted on his head and it was a red card, and would be a red card in any field sport because it is dangerous.

Tackles in other games or tackles in the same game that the referee might not have seen are irrelevant. Referees should not base decisions on trying to mirror a mistaken decision a referee might have made a month or a minute earlier. Of course you'll always have whataboutery among supporters who don't like a decision but you cannot legislate a sport in that manner. Ger Aylward got a goal against Galway last year after about 13 steps and it was mistakenly allowed. Does that mean that the steps rule is to be ignored forever more?

Referees make mistakes and people accept that and move on. Sending off Hogan was not one of them as Barry Kelly and Brian Gavin (who, unlike the average supporter, will have attended many meetings where rule implementation would have been discussed in a proper technical manner) have agreed. Hurling would be a very violent sport indeed if this kind of tackle were to be allowed and not red-carded. It is a pity that the incident happened but it was a red card.

Nowadays some refs don`t ref by the letter of the law and as long as they`re consistent, I don`t have a problem with that if it allows the game to flow. I`m not in favour of high tackles and I accept that the incident was red. But if you`re implementing the letter of the law on one incident, then you should do so on others of a similar nature also. The facts are that Barrett wasn`t injured and Hogan was. Barrett couldn`t connect with the ball without striking Hogan on the head.

For what it`s worth I also think that the occasion should make a difference and that referees should err on the side of leniency in an All Ireland final and try to be consistent.

letsseehere14

Kind of off topic but also in a way on topic as Wexford and Limerick both won the provincials this year.

Some people talk about scrapping the provincials and going for just an All Ireland Championship. That is something I would be dead against.
We must remember that the records show, both historically and also recently that 3 teams dominate. People are of the assumption that in an open championship more Limericks, Wexfords, Galways, Clares etc will reach and win finals. I am not so sure.

This decade provincials and All Irelands followed the trend of the past 132 years. Big 3 winning 7 of 10 (70%) Munsters and 5 of 10 (50%) Leinsters and 7 of 10 (70%) All Irelands. Historically Kilkenny win 54% of Leinsters, Tipp, Cork win a combined 73% of Munsters and all 3 share 71% of All Irelands. It has followed the average nearly perfectly.

In 132 years of hurling Limerick have managed 8 All Irelands and Wexford have managed 6 and we are the 4th and 5th most successful teams in the game, along with Dublin. Think about that stat. That is 1 AI every 16.5 years for Limerick (we just ended a 45 year wait) and 22 years for Wexford (its 23 years and counting now and it was 28 years for them previously 1968 to 1996).

However we have won 20 Munster Championships and Wexford have 21 Leinster Championships and rarely a decade goes by that we dont win one each. Its those victories, like what we saw in 2013 and this year in the Gaelic Grounds and Wexford this year or back in 2004 that keeps the flame truly alive for a lot of fans. Not everyone is as committed to inter county hurling as the people on this forum. Thats why Wexford brought 50,000 people to the Leinster final this year but only 5,000 to last years All Ireland quarter final. Something was at stake.

I just think it may be a dangerous thing to do to get rid of them as it could, if the trend suggests, result in decades passing and the 4th to 9th best teams in the country scrapping for 3 All Irelands a decade at best. It could kill the competition.
Some people think the gap has narrowed and more teams can beat each other on any day, maybe but its not showing that way just yet.

Think of it this way. Imagine Dublins 2013 Leinster didnt happen and it was just them topping a round robin pool stage of an All Ireland. Imaging Wexford didnt win Leinster this year, it was just them topping a pool. Would the championship have been as good? It would be disastrous.

bruschi

tibruit wrote: »

Rule 5.32 To inflict an injury recklessly on an opponent by means other than those stated above.

Penalty: Order offender off.

Barrett was reckless and caused an injury. I don`t think there`s a whole lot of difference between the two tackles. Players are entitled to some duty of care. Barrett wasn`t injured. Apparently there`s an appeal going in for Hogan. I can`t see any grounds for it unless the final decision was made by someone other than the referee or linesman. You need to get over yourself because it`s going to go on for a while yet.

you clearly do not understand the rule book so. You very clearly stated reckless use of a hurl causing injury is a straight red. That is completely false. The rule you are now quoting above is only used if all 31 other rules prior cannot be used. So it is a last gasp stop cover all rule for a ref to use for whatever reason they need.

The issue with Barrett, is very clearly covered in rule 5.7. the preceding "deemed by the referee to be deliberate or accidental" also puts a huge caveat on him to be able to give a card or not.

Your last line is not worth commenting on.

terryrogers

tibruit wrote: »

Take your first line and reapply it to the second incident. Hogan went for Barrett (he was perfectly entitled to shoulder him out over the line), he got it wrong, he caught Barretts face guard. The only difference is that Hogan was actually injured.

Did you not get the memo mate, Hogans tackle was on a different level severity-wise to all other tackles in recent history. Sure Barrett only gave Hogan a harmless "nick in the nose", one idiot above even blames Hogans face guard. Whereas Hogan went in to "break Barretts jaw". Oh and these posters also 'know' that Hogan 'deliberately elbowed' Barrett whereas Barrett's, Coopers, etc tackles were unquestionably accidental. So no point in arguing.

robbiezero

This nonsense is getting annoying now. I have some sympathy for Richie based on the fact that for the vast majority of his career he almost certainly would not have got a red card for that tackle as Paudie Maher said, and also the implementation of severe punishment for reckless head high challenges has been somewhat ad-hoc this year. But it was technically the correct decision.
The suggestions of any of the other incidents in the game e.g. Barrett or Forde or the tackle on Brendan Maher were worthy of a red card are just complete rubbish and grasping at straws. It is perfectly obvious Barrett goes to flick the ball away and misses and some part of him or his hurley connects with Richie - A yellow card at the absolute most.

D9Male

Dub here. Completely neutral.

I don't understand the discourse four days after the final.

Tipperary suffered at the hands of questionable refereeing v Wexford. Their reaction was to shrug off the fact they were down to 14 men and to win in style.

Kilkenny down to 14 men? Collapse for 45 minutes, whinge for the guts of a week! And it was a red all day long!

golfball37

First post since Saturday. Fancied Kilkenny very strongly and after 15 mins whilst it looked good I was worried for them that they weren’t further ahead. Colin should never have allowed himself be hooked for that chance, it was a poor miss. He should have taken it on his weak side early. At the other end John Dwyer had less time and a faster ball to deal with and finished with a plomb. Having said all that KK were nicely placed just as they were against Limerick and just as happened against Limerick the opponents fought their way back before half time. The difference here however was KK had 15 men for the second half onslaught that was coming in the semi and the hard work done early template had worked in the semi and was on course again in the final, until the linesman decided Richie Hogan had to go. I was sitting in the Lower Hogan near the Hill end and saw Barrett’s assault on Richie some minutes earlier. James Owens saw it too as he gave a free. In real time it looked horrific I must say and I couldn’t believe it was only a free. To me it looked like a pre meditated strike safe in the knowledge the ball was in tenuous enough proximity to deem it acceptable in terms of avoiding sanction. Ok fair enough you say but the way Barrett acted after Richie mistimed his shoulder on him said to me the earlier incident was probably not an accident. I think Tipperary have some lovely hurlers and are pleasant on the eye but this win will be forever tainted, there was absolutely no doubt in my mind the unnecessary red card decided the match there and then for reason I outlined above regarding Limerick. Tipp had a spell but so did Limerick.

I felt the persistent fouling from Tipp backs in the early periods should have been met with yellow cards too, then they wouldn’t have been so gung ho in defence in the second half allowing them to take chances as they could absorb a yellow at that stage. Still as much as I admire Cody and feel for him for what happened before half time he needs to answer why ball after ball was lorried down on the Tipp fb in the second half? KK should have started the second half with 8 at the back with the intention of keeping this tight for ten minutes and no goals, no goals. After Bubbles Dwyer’s goal it was all over really.
Also questions need to be asked too about starting 3 clearly unfit players, in 2010 defeat to Tipp I felt he got off lightly in media by starting 2 unfit players that day.

A disappointing day out from the weather to the 7e for a programme. The linesman however ruined my day and I daresay many others with his over eagerness, if Barrett was allowed slide for arguably a far worse offence, then I would have expected a genuine great of the game like Richie to receive the same treatment.

PhuckHugh22

I really don't see how you can say that Barrett's challenge was worse than Hogan's. Richie even said himself that nobody would be talking about that only for his one.
Also no Kk fan here has addressed my comment that Barrett's challenge was identical to one Conor Fogarty made on Brendan Maher. Far more similar than the Hogan's tackle. There was no card for that tackle either. I thought both should have gotten a yellow if I'm honest. But alas at least there is consistency over the type of tackle being punished.

It's pretty funny that all the neutrals also think the incident was a red but only Kk fans think it wasn't. Speaks for itself really.

robbiezero

golfball37 wrote: »

First post since Saturday. Fancied Kilkenny very strongly and after 15 mins whilst it looked good I was worried for them that they weren’t further ahead. Colin should never have allowed himself be hooked for that chance, it was a poor miss. He should have taken it on his weak side early. At the other end John Dwyer had less time and a faster ball to deal with and finished with a plomb. Having said all that KK were nicely placed just as they were against Limerick and just as happened against Limerick the opponents fought their way back before half time. The difference here however was KK had 15 men for the second half onslaught that was coming in the semi and the hard work done early template had worked in the semi and was on course again in the final, until the linesman decided Richie Hogan had to go. I was sitting in the Lower Hogan near the Hill end and saw Barrett’s assault on Richie some minutes earlier. James Owens saw it too as he gave a free. In real time it looked horrific I must say and I couldn’t believe it was only a free. To me it looked like a pre meditated strike safe in the knowledge the ball was in tenuous enough proximity to deem it acceptable in terms of avoiding sanction. Ok fair enough you say but the way Barrett acted after Richie mistimed his shoulder on him said to me the earlier incident was probably not an accident. I think Tipperary have some lovely hurlers and are pleasant on the eye but this win will be forever tainted, there was absolutely no doubt in my mind the unnecessary red card decided the match there and then for reason I outlined above regarding Limerick. Tipp had a spell but so did Limerick.

I felt the persistent fouling from Tipp backs in the early periods should have been met with yellow cards too, then they wouldn’t have been so gung ho in defence in the second half allowing them to take chances as they could absorb a yellow at that stage. Still as much as I admire Cody and feel for him for what happened before half time he needs to answer why ball after ball was lorried down on the Tipp fb in the second half? KK should have started the second half with 8 at the back with the intention of keeping this tight for ten minutes and no goals, no goals. After Bubbles Dwyer’s goal it was all over really.
Also questions need to be asked too about starting 3 clearly unfit players, in 2010 defeat to Tipp I felt he got off lightly in media by starting 2 unfit players that day.

A disappointing day out from the weather to the 7e for a programme. The linesman however ruined my day and I daresay many others with his over eagerness, if Barrett was allowed slide for arguably a far worse offence, then I would have expected a genuine great of the game like Richie to receive the same treatment.

It will be as tainted as KK win in 2009.

PhuckHugh22

Also the lads saying the win is tainted for Tipp are bang out of order. Did you ever here such garbage?
There are some great posters on here from both Kk and Tipp and ye are an actual embarrassment to the good GAA people in this forum.

adrian522

PhuckHugh22 wrote: »

Also the lads saying the win is tainted for Tipp are bang out of order. Did you ever here such garbage?
There are some great posters on here from both Kk and Tipp and ye are an actual embarrassment to the good GAA people in this forum.

Completely agree. Win isn't tainted. As Gortha said in the KK people:

“I can’t remember a game changing so dramatically and becoming so one-sided after a sending off. It was as if there was a total systems failure in the Kilkenny camp"

And to be honest that is completely down to how ruthless and efficient Tipperary were combined with a fair but of naivety from Kilkenny.

I don;t think any genuine hurling fan believes the All Ireland is tainted.
Tipp completely took us apart in the second half.

Realt Dearg Sec

Of course it's not tainted, we were ****ing annihilated when we went down ONE player. No reasonable person could overlook that.

Tipp people DID also sell to demean 2009 over the penalty, which was also ludicrous. Over time those kinds of "there's an asterisk beside that all Ireland" comments always look stupid. I've heard it said plenty about 2013 as well, and even limerick last year. It's always ****e talk. Congrats to Tipp, the best team by far. Just wish we were allowed analyse something other than the card (and it's absolutely not just kk posters who keep going on about it either, as has been repeatedly claimed), it was an interesting game beyond that for a lot of reasons.

adrian522

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Of course it's not tainted, we were ****ing annihilated when we went down ONE player. No reasonable person could overlook that.

Tipp people DID also sell to demean 2009 over the penalty, which was also ludicrous. Over time those kinds of "there's an asterisk beside that all Ireland" comments always look stupid. I've heard it said plenty about 2013 as well, and even limerick last year. It's always ****e talk. Congrats to Tipp, the best team by far. Just wish we were allowed analyse something other than the card (and it's absolutely not just kk posters who keep going on about it either, as has been repeatedly claimed), it was an interesting game beyond that for a lot of reasons.

To analyse the rest of it is just too painful :pac:

Realt Dearg Sec

adrian522 wrote: »

To analyse the rest of it is just too painful :pac:

Have you not been watching the second half every day? I can't wait to look at it again tonight! In the dark. With a big bottle of whiskey, and no glass.

xl500

golfball37 wrote: »

First post since Saturday. Fancied Kilkenny very strongly and after 15 mins whilst it looked good I was worried for them that they weren’t further ahead. Colin should never have allowed himself be hooked for that chance, it was a poor miss. He should have taken it on his weak side early. At the other end John Dwyer had less time and a faster ball to deal with and finished with a plomb. Having said all that KK were nicely placed just as they were against Limerick and just as happened against Limerick the opponents fought their way back before half time. The difference here however was KK had 15 men for the second half onslaught that was coming in the semi and the hard work done early template had worked in the semi and was on course again in the final, until the linesman decided Richie Hogan had to go. I was sitting in the Lower Hogan near the Hill end and saw Barrett’s assault on Richie some minutes earlier. James Owens saw it too as he gave a free. In real time it looked horrific I must say and I couldn’t believe it was only a free. To me it looked like a pre meditated strike safe in the knowledge the ball was in tenuous enough proximity to deem it acceptable in terms of avoiding sanction. Ok fair enough you say but the way Barrett acted after Richie mistimed his shoulder on him said to me the earlier incident was probably not an accident. I think Tipperary have some lovely hurlers and are pleasant on the eye but this win will be forever tainted, there was absolutely no doubt in my mind the unnecessary red card decided the match there and then for reason I outlined above regarding Limerick. Tipp had a spell but so did Limerick.

I felt the persistent fouling from Tipp backs in the early periods should have been met with yellow cards too, then they wouldn’t have been so gung ho in defence in the second half allowing them to take chances as they could absorb a yellow at that stage. Still as much as I admire Cody and feel for him for what happened before half time he needs to answer why ball after ball was lorried down on the Tipp fb in the second half? KK should have started the second half with 8 at the back with the intention of keeping this tight for ten minutes and no goals, no goals. After Bubbles Dwyer’s goal it was all over really.
Also questions need to be asked too about starting 3 clearly unfit players, in 2010 defeat to Tipp I felt he got off lightly in media by starting 2 unfit players that day.

A disappointing day out from the weather to the 7e for a programme. The linesman however ruined my day and I daresay many others with his over eagerness, if Barrett was allowed slide for arguably a far worse offence, then I would have expected a genuine great of the game like Richie to receive the same treatment.

If he mistimed his shoulder why did he cynically lift his elbow he could have just missed when barrett stepped back its pretty simplistic to say that he mistimed it its more realistic he was out to avenge the tackle earlier that even you mention so if you are thinking of it then its probably safe to say hogan was as well

Mantis Toboggan

Ah lads this win is now tainted? Just gets better

gifted

All this whinging from the kilkenny people would make you wonder how many all ireland medals would they have actually won if they played within the rules......fair play to the ref, he was spot on with his decision....hogan should take it like a man and accept it.....going around crying about his supposedly injustice....bloody hell.

Sir Guy who smiles

All kilkenny want is consistency from the refs.

Tommy Walsh used to get yellows when he probably should have got reds, Ritchie Hogan should be treated the same.

adrian522

gifted wrote: »

All this whinging from the kilkenny people would make you wonder how many all ireland medals would they have actually won if they played within the rules......fair play to the ref, he was spot on with his decision....hogan should take it like a man and accept it.....going around crying about his supposedly injustice....bloody hell.

Sir Guy who smiles wrote: »

All kilkenny want is consistency from the refs.

Tommy Walsh used to get yellows when he probably should have got reds, Ritchie Hogan should be treated the same.

Thy're all coming out of the woodwork now

Sir Guy who smiles

adrian522 wrote: »

Thy're all coming out of the woodwork now

Guilty as charged!😉

But it's not in response to Kilkenny loosing, it's in response to all the whinging about it.

BOSTIK

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Have you not been watching the second half every day? I can't wait to look at it again tonight! In the dark. With a big bottle of whiskey, and no glass.

Gallows humour, always the funniest.

Take a bow, sir!

The_Kew_Tour

Kilkenny always targeted players. Remember Tony O Sullivan was young gifted player who they broke his nose in AI Final in 80s.

The Cats have done it for years and now to see them annoyed at one incident is hilarious

adrian522

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Kilkenny always targeted players. Remember Tony O Sullivan was young gifted player who they broke his nose in AI Final in 80s.

The Cats have done it for years and now to see them annoyed at one incident is hilarious

LOL, bringing up incidents from what nearly 40 years ago and moaning about fans talking about this years final less than a week on. I've heard it all now.:o

Lefty Bicek

The_Kew_Tour wrote: »

Remember Tony O Sullivan was young gifted player who they broke his nose in AI Final in 80s.

The EIGHTIES !

A decade when lads from Cork were breaking their own noses in the warmup.

Go bhfóire Dia orainn.

marvin80

Maybe Padraic Maher could teach Hogan how to shoulder properly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPvpzrRkGus

Gentleman Off The Pitch

marvin80 wrote: »

Maybe Padraic Maher could teach Hogan how to shoulder properly:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hPvpzrRkGus

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75Yo2qVFx7o

marvin80

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75Yo2qVFx7o

Another nicely timed hit - no need to lead with the elbow - just hit shoulder to shoulder.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

marvin80 wrote: »

Another nicely timed hit - no need to lead with the elbow - just hit shoulder to shoulder.

Get down boy!

Snow Garden

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Of course it's not tainted, we were ****ing annihilated when we went down ONE player. No reasonable person could overlook that.

Tipp people DID also sell to demean 2009 over the penalty, which was also ludicrous. Over time those kinds of "there's an asterisk beside that all Ireland" comments always look stupid. I've heard it said plenty about 2013 as well, and even limerick last year. It's always ****e talk. Congrats to Tipp, the best team by far. Just wish we were allowed analyse something other than the card (and it's absolutely not just kk posters who keep going on about it either, as has been repeatedly claimed), it was an interesting game beyond that for a lot of reasons.

What shocked me the most was how utterly clueless KK were after the red card. There was no leadership, no plan. I think KK felt that if they lobbed up enough ball to Sweeper Barrett that he would sweep them into his own goal - out of guilt or something.
The likes of Michael Fennelly, Sheflin, JJ would not have allowed such a capitulation.

bruschi

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=75Yo2qVFx7o

Maher and Canning ended up with cuts on their faces. Both should have been sent off.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

Well Maher went to shoulder Canning and completely missed and ended up being a charge to Cannings frontal area.

As

Bruschi will surely agree since he is an absolute stickler for rules being applied to the letter when it suits (despite the fact Wexford would never finish a game with more than 12 players if that was the case) this was an aggressive foul as per "5.28 (a) To charge an opponent in the back or to the front"
with the penalty being
(i) Free puck from where foul occurred, except as provided under Exceptions of Rule 2.2.
(ii) Caution offender for committing any of the above fouls a second time; order off for a further repetition or for other cautionable foul.

And as

Mantis Toboggan will no doubt agree, since Cannings frontal area took the heavy impact, it is without dispute that Maher was hoping to shatter Cannings rib cage so that he could cynically inflict permanent damage on Canning's kidneys


Of course I am joking here, the game of hurling would be much worse off if such physicality would be removed from it and like most, I am happy that referees apply common sense and apply their interpretation of the rules to the play in front of him, and I am not hypocritical enough to cherry pick instances where I am happy for the referee to deviate from this, because it happens to suit me at the time

Mach Two

Slight change of topic. Would hurling be better if the championship went back to the old system of sudden death.

Mach Two

Anybody got a link to that incident that led to the red card.