All Ireland Senior Hurling (Liam Mccarthy Cup) 2019

slegs

Powerhouse wrote: »

Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't - it was still 10-15k less than the previous year's two quarter-finals which were stand alone. But my point is, if the provincial finals are meaningless, how come so many people attend them relative to a game like Limerick-Kilkenny last year which was important enough to be the end of the road for one of the teams? And should we get rid of the Munster and Leinster Finals (and let's be honest the juicy target is the Munster one) because people are enjoying them too much?

Limerick outnumber Kilkenny about 3-1 at that match so the lack of interest was coming from Kilkenny people which I don't understand. Surely they must be bored to death of winning Leinster (except for the last couple of years).

Think the current round robin format is a big improvement but it does need to be balanced. You could have a very competitive standalone knockout Leinster and Munster championship before the All Ireland Series (2 balanced groups of 5-6). As a warm up competition in April/May just before AI Series the provincial championship would still get big crowds - maybe the winners get guaranteed top seeding in the groups to make it matter more.

Bonniedog

littlevillage wrote: »

After this weekend's hurling I think this is how the field looks.

Tipp & Limerick way out in front.

then any one of KK, Galway, Wex, Cork, Clare, Dub ...

Soo barring a freak result where an underdog catches either of the two favourites cold in a knock-out game....it will be Tipp v Limerick final.

Would generally concur with that, although I also quietly fancied Waterford to at least make top three in Munster, so that's the price of me!


For my own county, would give them some chance of beating Galway in last game. After that, would think they might give Clare a game, and strangely enough always do well enough against Cork in recent times, but couldn't see them advancing further than a quarter final all things being equal.

Regarding crowds. Cork will certainly bring big numbers if they reach the last stages.

SirGerryAdams

Anyone think there'll be a saturation with these round robins? Teams playing each other every year, some probably more than once.

You could go 2 or 3 years without facing a team in the old format. There'd be a sense of the unknown with that.

slegs

SirGerryAdams wrote: »

Anyone think there'll be a saturation with these round robins? Teams playing each other every year, some probably more than once.

You could go 2 or 3 years without facing a team in the old format. There'd be a sense of the unknown with that.

Think once a year is fine and even meeting again in the knockout AI series but meeting a team in the provincial final that you played a week or two before in the round robin is an issue that will become a problem I think. Even more reason to go for balanced seeded round robin separate from provincial championship.

munsterlegend

Bonniedog wrote: »

Would generally concur with that, although I also quietly fancied Waterford to at least make top three in Munster, so that's the price of me!


For my own county, would give them some chance of beating Galway in last game. After that, would think they might give Clare a game, and strangely enough always do well enough against Cork in recent times, but couldn't see them advancing further than a quarter final all things being equal.

Regarding crowds. Cork will certainly bring big numbers if they reach the last stages.

Whatever about Tipperary how are limerick way out in front? Beaten well by Cork this year and scraped over the line last year when cork should have knocked them out and Galway ran out of time.

SirGerryAdams

slegs wrote: »

Think once a year is fine and even meeting again in the knockout AI series but meeting a team in the provincial final that you played a week or two before in the round robin is an issue that will become a problem I think. Even more reason to go for balanced seeded round robin separate from provincial championship.

I forgot about the final. That's at least twice a year for the top 2 and then if they made the final that's 3 times.

Bonniedog

munsterlegend wrote: »

Whatever about Tipperary how are limerick way out in front? Beaten well by Cork this year and scraped over the line last year when cork should have knocked them out and Galway ran out of time.

I didn't see the Cork/Limerick game so not going to argue with either the result or the manner of their defeat.

Thought they looked ruthless last Sunday, albeit against a side that seems to have given up the ghost. Only time I've seem them live this year was in Nowlan Park. Thought they upped the gear efficiently to see us off, and defence looked very strong.

Again, the caveat unfortunately of playing ourselves so not sure of value of that as we have habit of going asleep for 10/15 minutes in second half.

Still think they are one of the two teams to catch, with Tipp ahead of the posse but that could also change in last games.

Joe Daly

slegs wrote: »

Limerick outnumber Kilkenny about 3-1 at that match so the lack of interest was coming from Kilkenny people which I don't understand. Surely they must be bored to death of winning Leinster (except for the last couple of years).

Think the current round robin format is a big improvement but it does need to be balanced. You could have a very competitive standalone knockout Leinster and Munster championship before the All Ireland Series (2 balanced groups of 5-6). As a warm up competition in April/May just before AI Series the provincial championship would still get big crowds - maybe the winners get guaranteed top seeding in the groups to make it matter more.

Kilkenny were out three sundays in a row at that stage.

grbear

As long as matches feel important, an annoyingly hard thing to define exactly, then they'll attract a crowd. The three biggest matches in Leinster hurling last year were Galway-Kilkenny and that must be among the most common championship fixtures since Galway and Antrim joined the Leinster championship.

Last year's Mayo-Galway match in Connacht was their sixth year in a row meeting in Connacht as well as faceoffs in the national and FBD leagues but still drew a massive crowd as it felt like a big deal. If they were playing in this years final it'd probably sell out despite it being a potential third meeting of the year with a chance of more to come.

threeball

Powerhouse wrote: »

I don't know this and maybe they are building nicely with the best yet to come. But as the provincial championships kicked on last year Galway and Cork were unbeaten and neither won it out. They had left their best behind them.

This is total scutter. Cork should have beat Limerick in the semi due to a 10 minute collapse but had been the better team all game. Did they leave their best behind in the dressing room at half-time.

Galway had their worst off day in 5 years in the final last year. If they were even 10% better they would have beat Limerick. They left their best all the way back in the semi.

You're really stretching to cover your already silly argument.

Mac_Lad71

Take last years championship.

Cork played Clare in the round-robin and again in the Munster Final.

Had Cork beaten Limerick and Clare beaten Galway in their respective AISFs (ifs and buts I know) then they would have met in the championship for the THIRD time.

I can see the same scenario develpoing this year (not necessarily with the same counties) which imo is ridiculous.

cson

slegs wrote: »

Limerick outnumber Kilkenny about 3-1 at that match so the lack of interest was coming from Kilkenny people which I don't understand. Surely they must be bored to death of winning Leinster (except for the last couple of years).

In my experience a lot of KK fans don't give a **** unless its the AI Final. Even then you'd see a lot of them streaming out to go for pints in the Big Tree after winning rather than listen to their Captain's speech.

BloodyBill

threeball wrote: »

This is total scutter. Cork should have beat Limerick in the semi due to a 10 minute collapse but had been the better team all game. Did they leave their best behind in the dressing room at half-time.

Galway had their worst off day in 5 years in the final last year. If they were even 10% better they would have beat Limerick. They left their best all the way back in the semi.

You're really stretching to cover your already silly argument.

Both Cork and Galway lost. So the 'coulda,woulda,shoulda' is all hearsay. Cody says ' the best team always wins'. Thats the only concrete measure to take from a game...ie the result.

threeball

BloodyBill wrote: »

Both Cork and Galway lost. So the 'coulda,woulda,shoulda' is all hearsay. Cody says ' the best team always wins'. Thats the only concrete measure to take from a game...ie the result.

No, to say a team that played the better hurling on a particular day and lost because "They left their best behind them" is total crap. The better team doesn't always win whether Cody says it or not. There's no way Galway should have been even in contention in the last 5 mins last year but apart from a long range free that dropped short Limerick were goosed. The point is, one good or bad game or poor 20 mins does not mean that a team is in or out of contention. So far Waterford and Carlow are the only teams you can completely rule out.

Joe Daly

threeball wrote: »

This is total scutter. Cork should have beat Limerick in the semi due to a 10 minute collapse but had been the better team all game. Did they leave their best behind in the dressing room at half-time.

Galway had their worst off day in 5 years in the final last year. If they were even 10% better they would have beat Limerick. They left their best all the way back in the semi.

You're really stretching to cover your already silly argument.

Would not mind him he is like the person know body wonts at the table Christmas day.

robbiezero

slegs wrote: »

Limerick have to beat Clare this weekend or we are out. Something we haven't managed to do in 4 years. If we can get over Clare then we are back in it but its 50/50 at best. Limerick will need to be at the top of their 2018 levels to get the job done

I don't know. I'd fancy ye to get the job done fairly comfortably enough if ye play anywhere near normal form. The minus 3 handicap is already getting hit in the bookies.
Clare look to me like a team coming to the end of the current management cycle and the players seem to have lost the faith. Hopefully there is a bit of a bust in them and they can make a good game of it and have a right cut.

Powerhouse

threeball wrote: »

This is total scutter. Cork should have beat Limerick in the semi due to a 10 minute collapse but had been the better team all game. Did they leave their best behind in the dressing room at half-time.

Galway had their worst off day in 5 years in the final last year. If they were even 10% better they would have beat Limerick. They left their best all the way back in the semi.

You're really stretching to cover your already silly argument.

It'd odd that you are the one trying to rewrite history but my argument is silly! You are the one relying in "if" but I am stretching my argument!

Neither Cork nor Galway won the All Ireland last year despite being the two unbeaten teams in the provinces. Yes, if they'd scored more than the other teams they'd have won. But they didn't. Those are facts. There's no argument being stretched when they are facts.

threeball

Powerhouse wrote: »

It'd odd that you are the one trying to rewrite history but my argument is silly! You are the one relying in "if" but I am stretching my argument!

Neither Cork nor Galway won the All Ireland last year despite being the two unbeaten teams in the provinces. Yes, if they'd scored more than the other teams they'd have won. But they didn't. Those are facts. There's no argument being stretched when they are facts.

Now you're just ignoring your statement that both teams had left their best hurling behind them which is complete b.s. but of course you know this and are running to hide behind the old if they scored more they had won argument, trying to frame it as if the margin between tge teams was significant.

Browney7

threeball wrote: »

This is total scutter. Cork should have beat Limerick in the semi due to a 10 minute collapse but had been the better team all game. Did they leave their best behind in the dressing room at half-time.

Galway had their worst off day in 5 years in the final last year. If they were even 10% better they would have beat Limerick. They left their best all the way back in the semi.

You're really stretching to cover your already silly argument.

I'm very confused....you're saying cork were the better team and had a ten minute collapse and got destroyed in ET as their legs were gone but were the better team all game (despite it being either a draw or Limerick up by one at HT) yet Limerick who led against Galway pretty much the whole way and had a 5 minute collapse when the tide turned and nerves set in, yet still came out the right side of the result were worse than Galway?

Powerhouse

threeball wrote: »

Now you're just ignoring your statement that both teams had left their best hurling behind them which is complete b.s. but of course you know this and are running to hide behind the old if they scored more they had won argument, trying to frame it as if the margin between tge teams was significant.

Not ignoring it, just that it's self-evident. In their provinces they played 11 games between them without defeat. In the All Ireland series they played four matches between them and won one. Not exactly overwhelming evidence that they maintained their earlier altitude, but I'm sure you know best.

Powerhouse

munsterlegend wrote: »

Whatever about Tipperary how are limerick way out in front? Beaten well by Cork this year and scraped over the line last year when cork should have knocked them out and Galway ran out of time.

Don't see how Galway ran out of time. They had the same time as Limerick. They just didn't play well enough over that time. They scored 16 points in 70+ minutes in the All Ireland final. They had 16 points scored at half-time in the replay against Kilkenny. Only two of their starting six forwards scored from play against Limerick and they were outscored by eight points from play by Limerick. Their defeat was no trick of the clock.

Broadly speaking I do agree with the idea that assuming the early front runners are the inevitable winners/finalists in August makes little sense. But arguing that Galway lost to Limerick only because they ran out of time makes little sense either.

Limerick outscored Cork by 1-15 to 2-8 (and Cork's second goal was when the contest was over) in the last 40 minutes of that game. Sixteen scores to ten. Not exactly scraping over the line in fairness.

robbiezero

Powerhouse wrote: »

Not ignoring it, just that it's self-evident. In their provinces they played 11 games between them without defeat. In the All Ireland series they played four matches between them and won one. Not exactly overwhelming evidence that they maintained their earlier altitude, but I'm sure you know best.

Cork drew against a 14 man Limerick at home in the group stages in Munster, drew with a Tipp side who didn't win a game and stumbled over the line in Thurles against a Waterford team who were ravaged with injuries.
Losing to Limerick in extra-time in the AI semi-final having been the better team for most of the game was hardly leaving their best hurling behind them.

Powerhouse

robbiezero wrote: »

Cork drew against a 14 man Limerick at home in the group stages in Munster, drew with a Tipp side who didn't win a game and stumbled over the line in Thurles against a Waterford team who were ravaged with injuries.
Losing to Limerick in extra-time in the AI semi-final having been the better team for most of the game was hardly leaving their best hurling behind them.

I've said all I can say on this. If people can't accept it fair enough.

Bonniedog

Going to throw this out.

My family is Tipp, but from long years suffering with the Dublin hurlers, I never really liked them. always found them to take joy in hammering the bejaysus out of us when we were worse than useless, and Babs! Don't think I've ever heard him say one single positive thing about Dublin in 40 years!

Anyway, that's beside the point. I like Sheedy as a manager and thought he was very good pundit, and I think he has brought some of that balance back into Tipp after a bad year in 2018.

Much more enjoyable team to watch this year - especially in the league quarter final … no, no I'll park that :-) …. and I reckon he has got them in very good place. Apart from the hurling they just look more like a team that is content with letting the hurling do the talking, and no nonsense approach.

Possibly an unpopular view, and my Da would kill me for ever doubting!

DEFTLEFTHAND

Any of the top 6 or 7 are capable of beating each other on any given day. It's a wideopen championship and that's great for hurling.

There's no point in getting too bogged down with predictions at this stage.

Powerhouse

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

Any of the top 6 or 7 are capable of beating each other on any given day. It's a wideopen championship and that's great for hurling.

There's no point in getting too bogged down with predictions at this stage.

I would agree totally with the view of predictions. I have seen them over the years be proven badly wrong. Look at how far ahead of everyone Galway seemed in the middle of last year and then they struggled past a Clare team that had itself already lost twice, never mind the Galway experience in the final. But people will not be stopped making predictions with limited information.

But the idea that any of the top 7 are capable of beating each other is simply not supported by experience. A fairly clear pecking order usually emerges as the year progresses. Galway played Kilkenny three times last year and didn't lose. Cork played Clare twice and didn't lose. Last year there were two undefeated teams in the provincials. The team that ultimately beat both had lost just onegame in the provincial campaign.

Many people would have had Tipperary in the top 7 last year but they failed to win even one game, never mind being capable of beating any of the others on a given day. Wexford were in the top 6 but lost 3 of their 5 games. The idea that any of the teams could beat each other is often thrown out but in reality it has not worked out like that so far. Fortunes do not swing so wildly. A few key games can be critical. For example, the Kilkenny-Galway game on Sunday will probably decide one of the All Ireland semi finalists at least. The losers will have a far trickier campaign.

Gentleman Off The Pitch

C__MC wrote: »

Couldn't see kk getting near it? Why? If TJ is closed down, who will step up. There forwards are hot and cold. Even more there backs are vulnerable to pace and movement. Limerick should have buried them last year but for e Murphy. Richie Hogan isn't the player he was. Of course kk will always compete but for me they are behind tipp, galway, limerick, cork and Clare. I might add, Davy fitz has had Cody's number since 2017. The legs went on wexford last year after 3 weeks of consecutive hurling. I think kk will get third in leinster but tipp or limerick who I think will be in Munster final will beat them in QF. And I'm still backing galway to beat them next Sunday

I agree with you concerning Kilkenny's prospects, I can't recall a team in recent history being so dependent on one player, not just for scoring but winning possession and leadership.

However you state "The legs went on wexford last year after 3 weeks of consecutive hurling" yet make no allowances for Kilkenny being out three weeks in a row when stating "Limerick should have buried them last year but for e Murphy" and why do people, particularly Limerick people, when analyzing that game not accept that Eoin Murphy is a Kilkenny player?

He is not bad weather, he is not a fluke goal, he is not a bad refereeing decision, he is not an injury to a Limerick player are any of the other things you may hear mentioned as asterisks against a result, he is a Kilkenny player!

letsseehere14

Powerhouse wrote: »

Have no idea why you would say the season is "suiting" Tipperary. Yes, they have won three games but the real sign of a season suiting you is when you can play yourself into the season and not have to be at top pitch. That's why the season is made for Kilkenny. Galway are as poor as they've been for a few years, Wexford are middling enough, and Kilkenny might not have to beat either of them to progress. In reality they should beat both but they don't have to which is the whole point of the season suiting them. By the time Tipperary reach Croke Park they'll have their best hurling done. By the time Kilkenny get there they'll just be getting their full team on the pitch for a fresh start.

I completely disagree. How someone can think that the season is suiting Kilkenny better than Tipp, the only team that has qualified for the AI series is counter intuitive in my mind?!
Your whole post is based on assumptions of what Kilkenny may do or what results may happen. I can do this for any team and this is no disrespect to Dublin or Clare, just using it as an example (I had Dublin as a decent chance of getting out of Leinster this year and am taking Clares chances of knocking us out next weekend very seriously too). Look:

This season is really suited to Dublin, theyre building nicely now and set to peak in July and August. Great league by them winning 1B and getting to the semi finals too. They havnt set the world alight but are getting better week on week. A good 60 minutes against Kilkenny in Kilkenny, got a result against Wexford and beat Carlow by a good score, yes building nicely. Now they know they just have to beat Galway at home to progress. They have shown good at home and are hard to beat there.

Or Clare:
Good start for Clare and sure we all know they have the type of players that love the open Croke Park space. They got off the mark well against Waterford and now only have to beat Cork at home to progress. A longer route like 2013 will suit them so they can build into the summer when the ground gets hard. O'Donnell will really make use of the extra games after missing the league and Conlon and Kelly will never be as bad as they were last weekend. Sure they didnt want to show their hand against Tipp just yet when you only have to beat them in Croke Park. Once they get to Croke park theyre a different beast

Can you see how easy it is to make up this narrative about teams like you are? I can do the same for Galway, Wexford and Cork too.
Fact is only 1 team has qualified and its not Kilkenny. Now I can see that Kilkenny are probably in the best position out of all the other teams at this moment in time (2 chances to qualify), by 6pm Sunday it may be very different, but how is it suiting KK the best out of everybody so far?
- They have beaten the 2 weakest teams in Leinster, thats all.
- They have injuries to their squad.
- They have not qualified out of Leinster yet.
- They have the top 2 teams in Leinster still to play, the better of which at home, the lesser away, where they have not won in years.
- They are relying on 1 player for the majority of their scores.
- They effectively finished bottom of their division in the league.

There is no guarantee Tipp will win anything this year, just as there is no guarantee Limerick or any of the other teams will even qualify to be able to win anything this year. Its that simple fact plus their workrate and performances so far both as individuals and as a team, that leads me to say this year is suiting them best so far.
And thats so far, thats all, nothing definite and nothing is written in stone yet.

Powerhouse

letsseehere14 wrote: »

Your whole post is based on assumptions of what Kilkenny may do or what results may happen.

Of course it is. I never claimed otherwise. We cannot see into the future so by definition predictions about the future are based on what teams "may do" or "what results may happen". That hardly needs to be pointed out does it? You don't expect me to have the actual results from the future to hand do you?

The Golden Miller

Cork 9/2 for the All-Ireland. Looks like easy enough money. Odds should be longer and shorter really. Longer going by league form, shorter as Cork normally up the ante for Championship, so bookies fell somewhere in between I guess.

Had it won last year only for an inspired Limerick comeback, where nothing went right for Cork in the last 10 minutes. Even hit the upright with a few minutes to go, which would of put the game out of Limerick's reach. Cork have been knocking on the door this last while, and these things go in cycles between the big 3, only so long until Cork have a period of domination. This year will be the start of that I think

Powerhouse

Gentleman Off The Pitch wrote: »

Why do people, particularly Limerick people, when analyzing that game not accept that Eoin Murphy is a Kilkenny player?

He is not bad weather, he is not a fluke goal, he is not a bad refereeing decision, he is not an injury to a Limerick player are any of the other things you may hear mentioned as asterisks against a result, he is a Kilkenny player!

I couldn't agree more even if it's a waste of time pointing it out.

Powerhouse

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Cork 9/2 for the All-Ireland. Looks like easy enough money. Odds should be longer and shorter really. Longer going by league form, shorter as Cork normally up the ante for Championship, so bookies fell somewhere in between I guess.

Had it won last year only for an inspired Limerick comeback, where nothing went right for Cork in the last 10 minutes. Even hit the upright with a few minutes to go, which would of put the game out of Limerick's reach. Cork have been knocking on the door this last while, and these things go in cycles between the big 3, only so long until Cork have a period of domination. This year will be the start of that I think

Definitely think Cork have a great chance. Will be surprised if they're not in the final.

DEFTLEFTHAND

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Cork 9/2 for the All-Ireland. Looks like easy enough money. Odds should be longer and shorter really. Longer going by league form, shorter as Cork normally up the ante for Championship, so bookies fell somewhere in between I guess.

Had it won last year only for an inspired Limerick comeback, where nothing went right for Cork in the last 10 minutes. Even hit the upright with a few minutes to go, which would of put the game out of Limerick's reach. Cork have been knocking on the door this last while, and these things go in cycles between the big 3, only so long until Cork have a period of domination. This year will be the start of that I think

It's amazing how long they've been without one, 2005. I mean this is Cork we're talking about.

They were unlucky against Clare in 13 also. Should have won the first day.

The Golden Miller

Powerhouse wrote: »

Definitely think Cork have a great chance. Will be surprised if they're not in the final.

I thinkk Cork are often written off the last few years as many were saying they lacked the physicality of Kilkenny at their best, Tipp and even Galway. But they're a confidence team I think, once they get a bit of a run going, what they may lack in physicality they make up with skill and their running game. Always love watching them play compared to the others, their hurling is better on a technical level.

They destroyed Clare in the second half of a match last year and it was beautiful to watch, casual 40 yard sideways passes etc. I'm from Meath with alot of family in Kilkenny, but would always root for Cork. Play hurling the right way, and have the most colourful support

The Golden Miller

DEFTLEFTHAND wrote: »

It's amazing how long they've been without one, 2005. I mean this is Cork we're talking about.

Alot going on in the background I guess. Left Kilkenny with a free run for over a decade really. Kilkenny were a great team, but half their success was down to Cork's absence really. Tipp were there, but since about 91 aren't consistent All-Ireland winning material anymore

DEFTLEFTHAND

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Alot going on in the background I guess. Left Kilkenny with a free run for over a decade really. Kilkenny were a great team, but half their success was down to Cork's absence really. Tipp were there, but since about 91 aren't consistent All-Ireland winning material anymore

It's a testament to how good KK were/are because the Tipperary generation which emerged in 08/09 is one of the most talented that they've ever produced, yet they've been held to only 2 AIs and beaten in 3 finals by the cats.

Powerhouse

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Alot going on in the background I guess. Left Kilkenny with a free run for over a decade really. Kilkenny were a great team, but half their success was down to Cork's absence really. Tipp were there, but since about 91 aren't consistent All-Ireland winning material anymore

Interesting theory. Kilkenny have, what, 11 All Ireland titles this century and beat their biggest (and probably only proper) rivals in two of them. (Both by a puck of the ball in 2006 and 2006, while Cork beat them well in 2004.) To what extent is there a connection between this level of success and Cork's difficulties? Like I said, an interesting one!

letsseehere14

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Alot going on in the background I guess. Left Kilkenny with a free run for over a decade really. Kilkenny were a great team, but half their success was down to Cork's absence really. Tipp were there, but since about 91 aren't consistent All-Ireland winning material anymore

Cork and Tipp have ploughed a similar path just a decade apart since 1991 and have been very similar AI winning material. Some can say unsuccessful, but both have still dominated Munster (Cork 9, Tipp 8, total 17 titles over 27 years) and each won 3 All Irelands from 1992 on.
Corks absence is very out of character looking back over the years. Since 91 Cork have won 3 all Irelands, 1999, 2004, 2005 the same as Tipperary, 2001, 2010 and 2016. There is a difference though. Cork have not contested an AI final since 2013, 2006 the most recent before that, Tipperary contested in 2009, 2010, 2011, 2014, 2016 so Cork have not had any recent (past 14 years) success All Ireland wise. Over the Cody era both Tipp and Cork lost to Kilkenny in finals, twice for Cork and three times for Tipperary, Cork beating them in 2 finals and Tipp beating them in 2 finals. So over the Cody era both Tipp and Cork have had very similar success and very similar challenges against Kilkenny, just a decade apart, Cork 99 to 06, Tipp 09 to 2016. Both are still miles ahead of the rest of us success wise in that period bar Clare who have 3 all Irelands in the period you mention, but thats 3 of 6 in total.

Itssoeasy

Just to respond to the last post from a cork point of view. The 13 years since cork last won an all Ireland's isn't even the biggest drought cork have had. That happened between 1903-19 and cork are well in with a shout at this year. From people I know the gap of twelve years from 1954-66 when cork beat Kilkenny you'd swear cork hadn't won an all Ireland in decades. The top three teams from Munster and Leinster will all be involved in the business end of the championship.

iebamm2580

Powerhouse wrote: »

Interesting theory. Kilkenny have, what, 11 All Ireland titles this century and beat their biggest (and probably only proper) rivals in two of them. (Both by a puck of the ball in 2006 and 2006, while Cork beat them well in 2004.) To what extent is there a connection between this level of success and Cork's difficulties? Like I said, an interesting one!

Are you saying cork are kilkennys only proper rivals?

MfMan

The Golden Miller wrote: »

Cork 9/2 for the All-Ireland. Looks like easy enough money. Odds should be longer and shorter really. Longer going by league form, shorter as Cork normally up the ante for Championship, so bookies fell somewhere in between I guess.

Had it won last year only for an inspired Limerick comeback, where nothing went right for Cork in the last 10 minutes. Even hit the upright with a few minutes to go, which would of put the game out of Limerick's reach. Cork have been knocking on the door this last while, and these things go in cycles between the big 3, only so long until Cork have a period of domination. This year will be the start of that I think

Galway had the All Ireland won last year...er....except Limerick were better.

Your pro-Cork reasoning is silly; they've been soft largely since 2006. For all their 'playing hurling the right way' they've copped a few hidings in that time, e.g. 2013 final replay v Clare, Tipp ('14 semi-final?), Galway in Thurles 2015 etc. This year will not be the start of a period of domination I think. .

The Golden Miller

MfMan wrote: »

Galway had the All Ireland won last year...er....except Limerick were better.

Your pro-Cork reasoning is silly; they've been soft largely since 2006. For all their 'playing hurling the right way' they've copped a few hidings in that time, e.g. 2013 final replay v Clare, Tipp ('14 semi-final?), Galway in Thurles 2015 etc. This year will not be the start of a period of domination I think. .

Cork getting to the final in 2013 was out of the blue, they weren't a great team, weak since their last All-Ireland success until this current team of the last 3 years, at a push 4. Why there was such a big drought I don't know, alot of in fighting between the county board and players played it's part. I've heard from Cork people too that the traditional strong club teams have struggled in the recent past too, who seem to be picking it up again. But I dunno the in's and out's of Cork club hurling.

Growing up though, they were always the team to beat. You think hurling, you think Cork. That's changed obviously with Kilkenny's recent success. Cork always led the roll of honour until that point though, coming from a harder province i.e less chances to convert provincial titles to All-Irelands. Yes, Leinster wasn't always as weak as it was in the 00's, but it was never really as strong as Munster either. The fact Cork led Kilkenny in All-Irelands for so long tells it's own story. As a neutral you want to see the best team's playing the best hurling, and Kilkenny's dogmatic approach was never great on the eye imo. Cork are silkier, better to watch. So i hope they win it

Realt Dearg Sec

****e talk.

Joe Daly

Cork v kilkenny since 1970 kilkenny won 1972,1982, 83, 1992, 2003, 2006. All irelands

lost to Cork 1978, 1999, 2004, not bad for a County that are perceived as dogged come from the weaker province as perceived you could say in 1999 we handed that final.

Powerhouse

Joe Daly wrote: »

Cork v kilkenny since 1970 kilkenny won 1972,1982, 83, 1992, 2003, 2006. All irelands

lost to Cork 1978, 1999, 2004, not bad for a County that are perceived as dogged come from the weaker province as perceived you could say in 1999 we handed that final.

This is all well and good but it is the answer to an argument he didn't make. This is the answer to "Kilkenny don't have a good record against Cork in All Ireland finals since 1970".

threeball

The Golden Miller wrote: »

You think hurling, you think Cork.

I'd always have thought KK and Tipp myself

munsterlegend

threeball wrote: »

I'd always have thought KK and Tipp myself

Surely you would think all 3! Look at the history books.

big_drive

A lot of people saying limerick out if they lose at weekend and not mathematically possible they qualify

But that’s depending on Cork winning isn’t it?

I know it’s unlikely but if cork lose their final 2 games don’t Limerick just need one win to qualify so even if they lost vs Clare a win the following week vs Tipp would do for third place

_blaaz

big_drive wrote: »

A lot of people saying limerick out if they lose at weekend and not mathematically possible they qualify

But that’s depending on Cork winning isn’t it?

I know it’s unlikely but if cork lose their final 2 games don’t Limerick just need one win to qualify so even if they lost vs Clare a win the following week vs Tipp would do for third place

Theres more chance of the pope marching in 12th of july parade down the garvahy road playing a drum,

than waterford beating cork saturday night

big_drive

I know, I’m just saying technically if limerick lose it’s not 100% they’re out